210 réponses à ce sujet

[Oni Changas]

Shepard's a **** up in a galaxy full of stupid idiot **** ups.

[DarthLaxian]

why or why not?

 

Yes, but only right before the final battle (to give him a push/hope after all that despair) when the Arks are either just leaving or have already left (as much as I personally would like to earlier know in Shepard's boots, there's such a thing as OPSEC to observe (top secret compartmentalized information can't and shouldn't be just handed out because someone is important - no, you get the info if you need it, if you don't: Well, no info for you, pal!))

[Kabooooom]

To me, even the cryo story leaves a lot of question marks:
Did they go with FTL? If so, how about drive discharge points in dark space? What about fuel? (not necessarily to maintain speed, which might just be maintained after an initial burst of acceleration but to keep the cryo units powered and in case of FTL travel to keep pumping juice into the ME core)
If they didn't go with FTL then the 400 year guess should be way off.
Even if it's "only" a X hundred year trip, who maintains the ship throughout all this time and how? (as you said, the quarians had issues keeping their ships together for 300 years while constantly repairing stuff and they had the ability to mine resources and trade with other races in the MW)

I really hope they can come up with half way decent explanations for this. I really don't want to start the game on the next BS "you are there, don't think about how" explanation. It's about the only thing that could sour the entire experience for me,e even if the rest of the game is good.

100% agree - it's the only thing that could ruin it for me too.

The discharge problem can be solved easily enough, I think. It's canon that large enough space stations have drive discharge facilities that (somehow) work. I always got the impression that a vessel or station had to be large enough for such a thing to be practical instead of discharging in a planet's EM field, which pretty much rendered every ship except maybe large dreadnaughts unable to do this.

The fuel issue is a whole other problem though - an almost insurmountable problem. There are stars between galaxies, but too few and far between.

And we pretty much know that they use FTL, I think. Walters let it slip that the journey takes 600 years. That is just shy of 12 light years per day, which is the canon FTL speed for most vessels. Without FTL, the journey would take millions of years. And with relativistic travel, the journey could be made in a single human lifetime, but 2.5 million years or so would pass in the Milky Way, which opens a whole other can of worms (like descendents from the MW actually designing a faster vessel and beating the Andromeda colonists there).

There's a lot of ways Bioware could screw this up. But, I really don't think they will. Someone needs to straight up ask them - "no details necessary, but just tell us: WILL you explain the details of the Ark voyage, or not?"

[Vespervin]

No. Shepard is actively fighting the reapers and their forces so his chances of being indoctrinated are pretty high. Informing Shepard of this project would be too dangerous.

[Iakus]

No. Shepard is actively fighting the reapers and their forces so his chances of being indoctrinated are pretty high. Informing Shepard of this project would be too dangerous.

Again, how would it be dangerous?  They have presumably left months or even years earlier.  And ships in FTL cannot be tracked.  The Reapers would have no way to pursue or track them.

[Vespervin]

Again, how would it be dangerous?  They have presumably left months or even years earlier.  And ships in FTL cannot be tracked.  The Reapers would have no way to pursue or track them.

 

I'm not going to debate this until we know for sure. I will, however, go through this thread to read any and all arguments.

 

[Grieving Natashina]

<dodges yet another travel debate>

I'm putting this quote into spoiler tags due to the length.

Spoiler

Or even a success, after the fact. The Crucible was the big shiney thing that people kind of knew about and put their hopes in, but everyone knew that if they failed it wouldn't matter that the Reapers knew of it. But if the Milky Way fails, and the Reapers know of the Arcs and their location, there's not much reason not to expect the Arcs to arrive in Andromedea with a Reaper cohort already there waiting. Like someone else said upthread, this is the sort of project where you burn the records and shoot the workers as soon as you can.


Of course, there's also the question of when Liara and Shepard should know. When does this occur, and why should it be brought up afterwards?

Obviously not during ME1, since no one believes.

If it'd during the period of Shepard's death, Shepard's, well, dead.

During ME2, no one has an incentive to tell Shepard, who's dead-set on a suicide mission anyway. The Council doesn't trust Shepard, and Cerberus wouldn't want to hint at it's hand if it knows and has a role in the project.

Whether it happens before or after Liara becomes the Shadow Broker is relevant. If it's before, then the Shadow Broker may well have known but been paid to help cover up and destroy data. If the Broker colluded and destroyed records on destination, timing, and such, then there'd be nothing for Liara to inherit. And even if she did, if they already left it'd be a distraction to actually addressing the problem as she gets a handle on the Broker's network.

If it happens after ME2, then Shepard's in lockdown for Arrival. No one tells him because he's in trouble, even if the project is built between now and then. (Standard Mass Effect building timelines apply.)

If the ships leave at the start of ME3, then no one would necessarily know if they succeeded: the Reapers cut off Earth from coms at the start, and the nature of the departure (if any ship is seen attacked and/or destroyed) could indicate the Arks were destroyed. No one would know otherwise.

After ME3's start, the survival or escape of the ships becomes irrelevant, and possibly unknown.

That's what I've been thinking over the last few months. I came the same conclusions you did on the possible reasons why Shep didn't know. I also agree with some other posters that the Ark project heads could have very well be leery of Shepard due to the ties between Cerberus and concerns about indoctrination.

I personally feel the N7 teaser trailer wasn't any sort of indication that Shep found out about the Ark. I think that teaser was purely meta. Just a final farewell to the fans of Shepard.

[Iakus]

<dodges yet another travel debate>

I'm putting this quote into spoiler tags due to the length.

That's what I've been thinking over the last few months. I came the same conclusions you did on the possible reasons why Shep didn't know. I also agree with some other posters that the Ark project heads could have very well be leery of Shepard due to the ties between Cerberus and concerns about indoctrination.

I personally feel the N7 teaser trailer wasn't any sort of indication that Shep found out about the Ark. I think that teaser was purely meta. Just a final farewell to the fans of Shepard.

If the Reapers can reach Andromeda there's no reason to think they're not there already, harvesting organic life.  they've had a billion years to go there and make a whole new brood of reapers after all.

[MrFob]

100% agree - it's the only thing that could ruin it for me too.

The discharge problem can be solved easily enough, I think. It's canon that large enough space stations have drive discharge facilities that (somehow) work. I always got the impression that a vessel or station had to be large enough for such a thing to be practical instead of discharging in a planet's EM field, which pretty much rendered every ship except maybe large dreadnaughts unable to do this.

Do they? I thought it was only the Citadel that had discharge stations (might be wrong about that though) and there, I assumed they are capacitors that themselves can discharge into the Serpent Nebular over time. But who knows, maybe they built some sort of "charge sink" that they have a whole bunch of and that they can dispose of during the journey or something. In any case, this one can definitely be explained somehow, I just hope they recognize that it's a problem and mention it.
 

The fuel issue is a whole other problem though - an almost insurmountable problem. There are stars between galaxies, but too few and far between.

And we pretty much know that they use FTL, I think. Walters let it slip that the journey takes 600 years. That is just shy of 12 light years per day, which is the canon FTL speed for most vessels. Without FTL, the journey would take millions of years. And with relativistic travel, the journey could be made in a single human lifetime, but 2.5 million years or so would pass in the Milky Way, which opens a whole other can of worms (like descendents from the MW actually designing a faster vessel and beating the Andromeda colonists there).

Not sure if it was with you or another poster but a few months ago, we had a fun discussion about exactly that, speculating that the "Remanent" are in fact MW colonizers that have come and gone to Andromeda while we were traveling.

 

There's a lot of ways Bioware could screw this up. But, I really don't think they will. Someone needs to straight up ask them - "no details necessary, but just tell us: WILL you explain the details of the Ark voyage, or not?"

Someone tell the games media, youtubers and other parties that might interview BW devs in the near future to ask exactly this question please!

[Fixers0]

No. Shepard is actively fighting the reapers and their forces so his chances of being indoctrinated are pretty high. Informing Shepard of this project would be too dangerous.

 

The problem with that kind of Logic is that it is not applied consistently, If this was truely the case then Shepard would have to function purely as a higly regulated ground asset with only the bare minium of information needed. Yet Shepard enjoys a broad freedom of actions and has knowledge about pretty much everything regarding the war effort.

 

Anderson is similiar to, he fights the Reapers on daily basis and the frontlines and he's still having conferences with Hackett, Shepard and the Rest of the Alliance brass about the war strategy.

[Kabooooom]

Do they? I thought it was only the Citadel that had discharge stations (might be wrong about that though) and there, I assumed they are capacitors that themselves can discharge into the Serpent Nebular over time. But who knows, maybe they built some sort of "charge sink" that they have a whole bunch of and that they can dispose of during the journey or something. In any case, this one can definitely be explained somehow, I just hope they recognize that it's a problem and mention it.

Not sure if it was with you or another poster but a few months ago, we had a fun discussion about exactly that, speculating that the "Remanent" are in fact MW colonizers that have come and gone to Andromeda while we were traveling.



Someone tell the games media, youtubers and other parties that might interview BW devs in the near future to ask exactly this question please!

Lol, yeah that was with me. Forgot about that. And I'm not 100% sure, but I'm pretty sure that the ME1 codex says something like "except large space stations like the Citadel which have drive discharge stations". I'll check.

Edit: yep, under FTL Drive: Drive Discharge it says "deep space facilities like the Citadel often have special discharge facilities for visiting ships".

You're right though, it doesn't really solve the problem - unless they can somehow use the energy from the discharge as a source of electrical power. If that was the case, it would eventually all be lost as thermal energy but at least it would be useful.

[Element Zero]

Shepard is a galactic booty-hound. The risk is too great threat that, upon hearing of the Andromeda Initiaive, Shepard will abandon the fight to pursue intergalactic booty. Trillions could be lost. Shepard must not learn of the Arks.

[Gothfather]

Considering Shepard is principly in charge of uniting all the races and doing all the negotiations, even going so far as representing humanity on the war Summit. Furthermore the Ark project is as big if not bigger than the Crucible project. Constructing Multiple station-sized carriers is not something you at your leisure on a backwater colony. It will drain resources and manpower, and it will leave pretty big mark. And Shepard, the most important asset to the Galaxy, somehow doesn't know because...There simply was no Ark project when ME3 was written, but now that is retconnend so we come with the must ridiculous reason as to why the existence of the Arks conveniently is hidden from Shepard.

 

Who the frak cares that Shepard is the most important asset. Shepard ISN'T the only asset and Shepard being an important asset has better fraking things to do then be used to create the arks.

 

You have given ZERO reasoning as to why Shepard would be told other than Shepard is important. So fraking what? Admiral Nimitz was the most important Asset the Americans had in the Pacific theatre that didn't magically bestow him with the knowledge of Operation overlord's existence let alone operational details of D-Day. General Eisenhower was the most important soldier in the European Theatre and he had zero knowledge of Mariana/Palau Island campaigns. Your importance as an asset doesn't entitle you to knowledge on operations that don't have any bearing on your mission. The only reason Shepard even knows about the crucible is because he was the one who brought secured the plans and Hackett charged Shepard with obtaining a fleet large enough to protect it so it could be deployed against the reapers to take back earth. Shepard isn't told because he is super dooper special. Shepard doesn't know where the weapon is being constructed yet you say such a large project like this can't be kept secret from shepard and the Crucible was able to be build someplace that wasn't a major target aka a smaller colony. Yet somehow the ark project has to be build in some major colony? Why? Because you are determined to dislike the idea?

 

This simply an addition to the story which is almost always required for a non planned sequel which this is, nothing we know so far contradicts any continuity of the original trilogy as much as you may wish it did so as to justify your position.

[Fredward]

Just out of curiosity do ya'll think the Reapers would care about the Arks if they knew what they were for? Their directive is galaxy specific isn't it? So if a bunch of ships were aiming to go to a different galaxy would they stop them?

[Gothfather]

Again, how would it be dangerous?  They have presumably left months or even years earlier.  And ships in FTL cannot be tracked.  The Reapers would have no way to pursue or track them.

 

The capabilities of the enemy are not 100% know you don't tell the enemy of your secret plan just because you finished building it and sent it off. Secrecy is the Ark program's best protection. Making sure it stays secret months or years after the fact is still a PRIORITY. I mean use your bloody head and start using logic and reason. Because you don't like the game's direction you are being blind to common sense.  Did the world suddenly stop keeping secrets about WWII when it was over? NO it took DECADES for many secrets to come to light and some are still kept.

[Morty Smith]

Just out of curiosity do ya'll think the Reapers would care about the Arks if they knew what they were for? Their directive is galaxy specific isn't it? So if a bunch of ships were aiming to go to a different galaxy would they stop them?

 

If the "I" in A.I doesn't stand for incompetence, yes.

 

What is able to leave is someday able to come back with unchecked, unshackled and unknown technology.

[Gothfather]

Just out of curiosity do ya'll think the Reapers would care about the Arks if they knew what they were for? Their directive is galaxy specific isn't it? So if a bunch of ships were aiming to go to a different galaxy would they stop them?

 

Doesn't matter. First that isn't a widely know piece of information Shepard only finds out about it later in the trilogy. Second you don't create a project of this importance and ASSUME that the enemy wont care. You assume the enemy will care, take precautions against them and HOPE they actually don't care.

[shodiswe]

Shepard doesn't need to know, knowledge should be on a need to know basis in a situation like this. It's for everyones best interest.

 

Bad things could happen otherwise, potentially.

[Fredward]

If the "I" in A.I doesn't stand for incompetence, yes.

 

~recalls their solution to the inevitability of AI-organic conflict~

 

Yeah, no, of course not.

 

Doesn't matter. First that isn't a widely know piece of information Shepard only finds out about it later in the trilogy. Second you don't create a project of this importance and ASSUME that the enemy wont care. You assume the enemy will care, take precautions against them and HOPE they actually don't care.

 

Sensible.

 

 

 

Personally I think the idea of this somehow being a secret is entirely asinine so I wouldn't not  tell Shepard. I just wouldn't tell them specifically cuz what does it have to do with them?

[thepiebaker]

If plan A knows plan B exists it will deter the evelotionary trait where if a creature has no options left their abilities skyrocket. Sun tzu wrote about this.

Think of a mother gaining the strength to lift a car off her child by herself or a creature going 50 shades of wtf when backed on a corner by a predator.

If shep knows there's a plan b the effectiveness of shep will drop.

[simonrana]

It's sad people are putting so much work into making this make sense when you just know such efforts won't be made in the actual game. Remember the setup of the last two games anyone?...

[UpUpAway]

The problem with that kind of Logic is that it is not applied consistently, If this was truely the case then Shepard would have to function purely as a higly regulated ground asset with only the bare minium of information needed. Yet Shepard enjoys a broad freedom of actions and has knowledge about pretty much everything regarding the war effort.

 

Anderson is similiar to, he fights the Reapers on daily basis and the frontlines and he's still having conferences with Hackett, Shepard and the Rest of the Alliance brass about the war strategy.

 

Shepard IS a "highly regulated" ground asset as far as Hackett is concerned:  His/her orders are very specific.  He/she is reinstated and "directed to begin interdiction operations against any and all enemies posing a threat to Earth, its colonies and its allies" and he/she is given the additional specific "authority to establish treates with non-human races as required to support [his/her] mission."  (Definition for interdiction:  "To confront and halt the activities, advance, or entry of")  Nowhere in this email is Shepard "given" sweeping access to Alliance intel by Hackett... and information Shepard gets flows through Hackett or Anderson first.  (If you want to "control" information as keep different bits of it secret from different people, you set things up so that the information has to flow directly up to you so you control who you tell.  This is what Hackett has essentially done with Shepard.  Shepard reports to Hackett and Hackett decides what information he gives Shepard in return.  He tells Shepard only what Shepard needs to know.

 

Furthermore, he does not give Shepard the authority to make treaties with any humans... only non-humans... meaning, he/she doesn't have the authority to propose any sort of alliance with Cerberus.

[The Twilight God]

Say what you will about Liara's minor gaps in knowledge during ME3, but there's no way that the Shadow Broker wouldn't have had a dossier of info about the ark ships.

Mmm-hmmm.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Absolutely not. The Arks are an escape clause for humanity. Shepard can't rely on that to save the species if he doesn't know it exists.

[AlanC9]

Just out of curiosity do ya'll think the Reapers would care about the Arks if they knew what they were for? Their directive is galaxy specific isn't it? So if a bunch of ships were aiming to go to a different galaxy would they stop them?

Perhaps, but I wouldn't want to bet my species on that.