319 réponses à ce sujet

[Cyonan]

I already know my character's opinions. That's sort of the point of character creation.

And I'm always running If...then statements. Without a defined process I'd just be making up the answers as I go. That's not interesting. That's just Progress Quest.

 

Then it should include their opinion about AI.

 

I'd find it boring if everything was simple if...then statements. If that were the case, I might as well not even bother playing the game and just write a script to do it for me because I'm just acting like a machine at that point.

[Seraphim24]

This whole thread is so stupid again GTA is there for you people.

 

Why would you pick the most traditionally heroically oriented franchise to want to be evil in? It's just not making sense.

 

Bioware is like the only company that makes RPGs assuming you are going to be mostly heroic because like why wouldn't you be, they offer the least choice in this sense, out of like any franchise.

[In Exile]

This whole thread is so stupid again GTA is there for you people.

Why would you pick the most traditionally heroically oriented franchise to want to be evil in? It's just not making sense.

Bioware is like the only company that makes RPGs assuming you are going to be mostly heroic because like why wouldn't you be, they offer the least choice in this sense, out of like any franchise.

I kind of get making this post in the context of DAI - that's genuinely a game where you're mostly heroic. But that's really not the case in ME. In ME1, Shepard can be a racial supremacist who supports and participates in genocide. In ME2, Shepard can be a backstabbing murder (who invariably kills 10s of thousands of innocent people). In ME3 Shepard can, again, actively orchestrate genocide, sabotage efforts to cure a strerility plague, and otherwise backstab and murder confidants.

[Seraphim24]

I kind of get making this post in the context of DAI - that's genuinely a game where you're mostly heroic. But that's really not the case in ME. In ME1, Shepard can be a racial supremacist who supports and participates in genocide. In ME2, Shepard can be a backstabbing murder (who invariably kills 10s of thousands of innocent people). In ME3 Shepard can, again, actively orchestrate genocide, sabotage efforts to cure a strerility plague, and otherwise backstab and murder confidants.

 

Sorry but you mention 'can" can you not be a thug riding around killing only women and people with light skin color (or dark skin for that matter) in GTA? Of course you can.

 

If we're going off "can" then like 90% of the games out there allow you to be a "racial supremacist who supports and participates in genocide"

[RoboticWater]

Sorry but you mention 'can" can you not be a thug riding around killing only women and people with light skin color (or dark skin for that matter) in GTA? Of course you can.

 

If we're going off "can" then like 90% of the games out there allow you to be a "racial supremacist who supports and participates in genocide"

I don't even think 90% of games involve killing, and the ones that do usually don't give you a choice about which race you feel keen on annihilating, nor do they tend to present your victims as undeserving of death. That, however, is not the point. In Mass Effect, you can make plenty of hard-coded choices outside of combat that actively support racist agendas and genocide.

[Seraphim24]

I don't even think 90% of games involve killing, and the ones that do usually don't give you a choice about which race you feel keen on annihilating, nor do they tend to present your victims as undeserving of death. That, however, is not the point. In Mass Effect, you can make plenty of hard-coded choices outside of combat that actively support racist agendas and genocide.

 

"nor do they tend to present your victims as undeserving of death" so in other words you don't get to be an outright evil character it's attempting to fill the void with moral balance and nuance.

 

So what you want is the ability to be more invested in seeing the other side, not more evil.

 

Like I can play Soldier of Fortune 2, exterminate a country-side full of people, and sever their bodies after their dead, being really violent and all that is par for the course in video games.

[Cyonan]

Sorry but you mention 'can" can you not be a thug riding around killing only women and people with light skin color (or dark skin for that matter) in GTA? Of course you can.

 

If we're going off "can" then like 90% of the games out there allow you to be a "racial supremacist who supports and participates in genocide"

 

Unless those games are killing off entire ethnic groups of people or species, then it's not genocide. Simply killing a lot of people isn't genocide.

 

and Mass Effect has dialogue that lets you establish Shep as a racial supremacist.

 

We're going off of things that you can actually do in the game with 0 headcanon.

[Seraphim24]

Unless those games are killing off entire ethnic groups of people or species, then it's not genocide. Simply killing a lot of people isn't genocide.

 

and Mass Effect has dialogue that lets you establish Shep as a racial supremacist.

 

We're going off of things that you can actually do in the game with 0 headcanon.

 

Killing a lot of people is genocide, period.

 

Plus ti's been awhile since I played Vice City but isn't that game full of like racist like "the cubans are sub-humans that always cry to their moms" or something I don't know I'm pretty sure it's there.

[RoboticWater]

And why on earth is that significant?

 

Like I can play Soldier of Fortune 2, exterminate a country-side full of people, and sever their bodies after their dead, being really violent and all that is par for the course in video games.

Because a franchise where you can actively support racism and genocide couldn't possibly be "traditionally heroically oriented." In Mass Effect you can be pretty evil already.

 

Killing a lot of people is genocide, period.

 

Plus ti's been awhile since I played Vice City but isn't that game full of like racist like "the cubans are sub-humans that always cry to their moms" or something I don't know I'm pretty sure it's there.

Geno- race

Cide- killing

 

It can mean just mean killing a lot of people, but it technically doesn't.

[Seraphim24]

I don't know it's like traveling from all across the world to the Greek Pantheon and complaing about the concept of "democracy" makes no sense.

[Seraphim24]

Because a franchise where you can actively support racism and genocide couldn't possibly be "traditionally heroically oriented." In Mass Effect you can be pretty evil already.

 

Geno- race

Cide- killing

 

Oh on the contrary the key word again is "can," it's designed to trigger your hatreds if you have those and make you choose them to prove you aren't a truly heroic figure.

[Cyonan]

Killing a lot of people is genocide, period.

 

No it's not. That's mass murder.

 

It's by definition not actually genocide until you're intent on wiping out an entire species, ethnic group, religious grouping or nationality of people. Simply killing a lot of people doesn't fall into that category.

 

You can attempt genocide in Mass Effect 1, but Mass Effect 3 overrides it and then gives you the same choice again.

[Seraphim24]

No it's not. That's mass murder.

 

It's by definition not actually genocide until you're intent on wiping out an entire species, ethnic group, religious grouping or nationality of people. Simply killing a lot of people doesn't fall into that category.

 

You can attempt genocide in Mass Effect 1, but Mass Effect 3 overrides it and then gives you the same choice again.

 

So for some reason, killing people for no reason at all you guys isn't interesting you want to be able to kill people because of their race, ethnicity, etc (in game of course don't worry I'm not a secret correspondent for Fox News)

 

And because of that, you regard ME as letting you be more evil am I getting this right?

[In Exile]

Sorry but you mention 'can" can you not be a thug riding around killing only women and people with light skin color (or dark skin for that matter) in GTA? Of course you can.

If we're going off "can" then like 90% of the games out there allow you to be a "racial supremacist who supports and participates in genocide"

That's not the point. In ME - the supposed game series where you're playing the hero - you have a plethora of racist and murderous choices explicitly done and acknowledged to be done out of malice and racism. Are you suggesting this is heroic behaviour?

[In Exile]

So for some reason, killing people for no reason at all you guys isn't interesting you want to be able to kill people because of their race, ethnicity, etc (in game of course don't worry I'm not a secret correspondent for Fox News)

And because of that, you regard ME as letting you be more evil am I getting this right?

Killing lots of people for no reason other than to apparently kill then is obviously heinous. It's just not genocide. That doesn't make it less "evil". Fraud isn't the same thing as theft, but that doesn't really mean anything in terms of how awful that is in the end.

[Seraphim24]

That's not the point. In ME - the supposed game series where you're playing the hero - you have a plethora of racist and murderous choices explicitly done and acknowledged to be done out of malice and racism. Are you suggesting this is heroic behaviour?

'

Haha no! Of course not, as I said above, "can" is a key word there. Anyway, if you read my post above yours there perhaps we can get to an issue there.

[Seraphim24]

Killing lots of people for no reason other than to apparently kill then is obviously heinous. It's just not genocide. That doesn't make it less "evil". Fraud isn't the same thing as theft, but that doesn't really mean anything in terms of how awful that is in the end.

 

Wait a second, but if it's not different, then why not play GTA?

 

What's making ME so special, if they are "equally evil" and heinous.

[In Exile]

'
Haha no! Of course not, as I said above, "can" is a key word there. Anyway, if you read my post above yours there perhaps we can get to an issue there.

This is why you said:

Bioware is like the only company that makes RPGs assuming you are going to be mostly heroic because like why wouldn't you be, they offer the least choice in this sense, out of like any franchise.

My point is that Bioware has to have some messed up morals if they're assuming you're a "hero" while intentionally crafted repeatedly racist dialogue and giving you a plethora of options to advance a racially supremacist agenda.

[Cyonan]

So for some reason, killing people for no reason at all you guys isn't interesting you want to be able to kill people because of their race, ethnicity, etc (in game of course don't worry I'm not a secret correspondent for Fox News)

 

And because of that, you regard ME as letting you be more evil am I getting this right?

 

Killing just because doesn't make you more evil in my mind. It makes you more chaotic.

 

but the argument is that Mass Effect lets you be evil and isn't about being heroic all the time because of those acts. Not about which one is "more evil".

 

I'd say the two are about the same level of evil, though. It's just that one is mass murder while the other is genocide.

[Seraphim24]

You guys are still going but I don't think either of you answer my question.

 

What is the difference between genocide and mass killing? Not literally, morally?

[Seraphim24]

 

 

I'd say the two are about the same level of evil, though. It's just that one is mass murder while the other is genocide.

 

Ok, so?

[Seraphim24]

Killing just because doesn't make you more evil in my mind. It makes you more chaotic.

 

but the argument is that Mass Effect lets you be evil and isn't about being heroic all the time because of those acts. Not about which one is "more evil".

 

I'd say the two are about the same level of evil, though. It's just that one is mass murder while the other is genocide.

 

Well this topic is about "more evil" so it's pretty pertinent.

[Cyonan]

You guys are still going but I think you both realize I got you in a box there with that last point.

 

but my point was always that killing a lot of people isn't automatically genocide.

 

You've done nothing to weaken that position.

 

Yes it's semantics but no, I don't really care =P

[Seraphim24]

but my point was always that killing a lot of people isn't automatically genocide.

 

You've done nothing to weaken that position.

 

Yes it's semantics but no, I don't really care =P

 

I re-edited it so it's better.

 

You guys told me, that ME is different from GTA because you kill people because you hate them racially, whereas GTA is just wanton killing.

 

Now you are saying, they are the same thing.

 

Pick.

[ssanyesz]

This whole thread is so stupid again GTA is there for you people.

 

Why would you pick the most traditionally heroically oriented franchise to want to be evil in? It's just not making sense.

 

Bioware is like the only company that makes RPGs assuming you are going to be mostly heroic because like why wouldn't you be, they offer the least choice in this sense, out of like any franchise.

 

The reverse is also true, in most games players are heroes... So there is enough other hero games out there too.

 

But putting that aside, evil or sociopathic poeple can be goal oriented too, it don't make them heroes, but they can get the job done too. And if the game allows it, then we can go down on that road too, if we'd like to.