319 réponses à ce sujet

[The Dystopian Hound]

I'll pass. This is a hero's story. You're either good or an anti hero but you're a hero either way. I don't enjoy being space Hitler.

[KaiserShep]

That sort of character design would havewould have totally worked in KotOR.
Headcanon FTW.
If we were worried about zots we'd stop wasting them on non-interactive cinematics.

Well BioWare clearly favors games that have a central plot with some branches along the rails, so no hope of a sandbox. My Warden was an underhanded lyrium smuggler and assassin for hire, but it was tantamount to a hobby to pass the time before inevitably facing the archdemon.

[Sylvius the Mad]

No, you just don't give a rat's ass about story. You want a sandbox game. You're not going to get it.

Probably not. Though based on BioWare's recebt comments, MEA is probably more of a sandbox than any previous ME game.

But regardless of whether MEA is likely to be a sandbox game, I still want to keep the sandbox idea in the public eye.

We've had these same kind of discussions before, and you tend to embrace a very illogical viewpoint in general. It's your way (which isn't going to work in a game like MEA), or nothing -- for you anyway. Ironic thing is, even though you'll get very little of the BS you want, you'll still probably buy the game and then complain. Come May next year or so, I can just hear it...

How is that ironic? Really. You see irony there?

Though, I may not. I didn't buy ME3 anywhere near release. I had given up on the series, and only bought ME3 so I could see what was wrong with the ending. And while there were many things wrong with ME3, the ending wasn't bad.

But the marketing for MEA so far does make the game look quite a bit better than ME2 or ME3 looked in their marketing.

However, if MEA doesn't keep the pause-to-aim mechanic from the original trilogy (or some other means to avoid real-time combat gameplay), I assure you I won't play it.

Which is unfortunate. I can't make intelligent complaints about the game if I haven't played it.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Well BioWare clearly favors games that have a central plot with some branches along the rails, so no hope of a sandbox. My Warden was an underhanded lyrium smuggler and assassin for hire, but it was tantamount to a hobby to pass the time before inevitably facing the archdemon.

Facing the archdemon wasn't inevitable, nor did it have to be the Warden's primary objective.

My first Warden was focused on finding a cure for the taint, and the archdemon was merely a sidequest. My favourite Warden didn't care about anything but himself really, and he never got anywhere near Denerim (Sten killed him at Haven).

[Sylvius the Mad]

On top of there being ambiguity there for you to work with, you've also told me that human behaviour already isn't predictable or consistent.

So unless you'd like to take those statements back, this shouldn't be an issue.

Human behaviour isn't predictable from outside that person's head. Whether it's consistent isn't knowable without being about to read the person's mind.

But a person's behaviour should absolutely be predictable by that person. A person can know what he will do moment to moment. You're not surprised by your own behaviour, because you're the one choosing it.

Are you wilfully misunderstanding me, or are you trying to score debating points? Neither is helpful.

[EpicNewb]

This should be the option for the game.

 

I don't think Bio had the idea in mind judging from Ryder's face.

 

That's a nice girl face

[UpUpAway95]

I have complete control over the character as soon as I finish character creation. Otherwise the gameplay is absurd.

I don't ignore the story setup. I just refuse to draw the expected conclusions based on it. If BioWare wants to ensure that my character has a certain objective or a certain world view, they need to make that explicit. And they need to make that explicit before I buy the game.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again... if you want "complete" control over your character, you're just going to have to write your own game from scratch.  Otherwise, you're playing Bioware's character and you're being allowed to "modify" him/her within their set parameters.  The parameters are set by the amount of voiced dialogue they do and the situations they set up in the first place... and they have to do all of that within a budget and within a narrow enough story that they can, if they want, produce a second installment.  If you don't want to live within the limitations of a cinematic action RPG, you're going to have to play something else.  If you want an explicit description of the game before you buy the game... wait until the YouTubers put up their playthroughs and watch them or wait until after the Wiki gets written and read that... some of us like to be surprised now and then.

[EpicNewb]

I've said it before and I'll say it again... if you want "complete" control over your character, you're just going to have to write your own game from scratch.  Otherwise, you're playing Bioware's character and you're being allowed to "modify" him/her within their set parameters.  The parameters are set by the amount of voiced dialogue they do and the situations they set up in the first place... and they have to do all of that within a budget and within a narrow enough story that they can, if they want, produce a second installment.  If you don't want to live within the limitations of a cinematic action RPG, you're going to have to play something else.

A VR Sims like game would rake in billions.

 

People would courageously act like who they want to be due to having complete control over their char

[KaiserShep]

Facing the archdemon wasn't inevitable, nor did it have to be the Warden's primary objective.
My first Warden was focused on finding a cure for the taint, and the archdemon was merely a sidequest. My favourite Warden didn't care about anything but himself really, and he never got anywhere near Denerim (Sten killed him at Haven).

Sure, if I actively try to make the Warden fail. It's like having everyone, including Shepard, die in the suicide mission. Sure, it's possible, but you have to know exactly how to do it or just be bad at building a character that can fight. If Sten fought my Warden, he'd die full stop or quickly surrender. There's just no way he'd beat my Warden with any weapons or any of his abilities unlocked unless I just let her stand there.

[Tactical striga]

Facing the archdemon wasn't inevitable, nor did it have to be the Warden's primary objective.

My first Warden was focused on finding a cure for the taint, and the archdemon was merely a sidequest. My favourite Warden didn't care about anything but himself really, and he never got anywhere near Denerim (Sten killed him at Haven).

Damn, you should have left sten in that cage to die man, i hated sten so much and how did sten even kill you?

[In Exile]

Damn, you should have left sten in that cage to die man, i hated sten so much and how did sten even kill you?

 

Sylvius actively derogates from the basic premise of the game, i.e., that all Warden characters are superlative warriors and comfortable with fighting by default and degree. If you've played a create-your-own-party game like IWD, Sylvius wants to plays RPGs closer to that - where the party is effectively his malleable tool, and he can control the interparty relationships. So, basically, not at all like how Bioware structures their games, even if sometimes they retain the gameplay. 

[Cyonan]

Human behaviour isn't predictable from outside that person's head. Whether it's consistent isn't knowable without being about to read the person's mind.

But a person's behaviour should absolutely be predictable by that person. A person can know what he will do moment to moment. You're not surprised by your own behaviour, because you're the one choosing it.

Are you wilfully misunderstanding me, or are you trying to score debating points? Neither is helpful.

 

People often will surprise themselves with what they'll do, so it's not a true statement to say that your own behaviour should always be predictable by you.

 

When people get desperate they do desperate things, which is easy enough to use to explain away any "inconsistency" in a character.

 

I often see you seemingly willfully misunderstanding me or flat out ignoring my argument points. I figured I would give it a try.

[rocklikeafool]

I know Sylvius for an RPG fan, it just seemed to me he doesn't want a Sandbox.

Sylvius is a fan of only things he likes, and he dislikes new things. His arguments on numerous occasions have been illogical and full of nostalgia. 

 

 

 

I often see you seemingly willfully misunderstanding me or flat out ignoring my argument points. I figured I would give it a try.

Trust me, he does that with everyone who disagrees with him.

Which is unfortunate. I can't make intelligent complaints about the game if I haven't played it.

You assume that your complaints would be intelligent even if you did play it.

[Silvos]

Bioware, pls ignore these teenage edgelords. Their neckbeards have grown into their brains, causing acute Linkinparkitis.

[Mdizzletr0n]

Being pure evil doesn't make sense for this game. If they ever make another kotor you might get your wish, but Ryder is going to be working to find a place for the coalition. I can see ruthlessness, and even genocide to secure a place for them, but not plain Jane evil.

Genocide isn't evil?

[FumikoM]

I don't see it happening. This ain't Stars Wars. I hope to be able to play an anti-hero myself. But I'm afraid we're going to get what we had in DA:I.

There's no character more dull than the hero, especially if they're of the paladin type.

Personally I used to love to play heroes. The first time I played Baldurs Gate (just one of many games) I choose chaotic good. But over the many years that has since passed I realized being chaotic evil is just more fun. And gives you more freedom. Eagerly awaiting Tyranny, BTW.

[fizzypop]

Sylvius actively derogates from the basic premise of the game, i.e., that all Warden characters are superlative warriors and comfortable with fighting by default and degree. If you've played a create-your-own-party game like IWD, Sylvius wants to plays RPGs closer to that - where the party is effectively his malleable tool, and he can control the interparty relationships. So, basically, not at all like how Bioware structures their games, even if sometimes they retain the gameplay. 

Actually pretty sure Slyvius just wants to play a pen and paper game. Maybe write a story. I encourage a series of fantasy novels.

[fizzypop]

I don't see it happening. This ain't Stars Wars. I hope to be able to play an anti-hero myself. But I'm afraid we're going to get what we had in DA:I.

There's no character more dull than the hero, especially if they're of the paladin type.

Personally I used to love to play heroes. The first time I played Baldurs Gate (just one of many games) I choose chaotic good. But over the many years that has since passed I realized being chaotic evil is just more fun. And gives you more freedom. Eagerly awaiting Tyranny, BTW.

Anti-hero isn't evil tho. They are still a hero, but have major flaws or have flawed motivation. Anti-hero is more in line with a chaotic neutral or good. I personally like chaotic neutrals and anti-heroes more than both good and evil characters. 1. They are believable most people aren't good or bad, but a mix. 2. Their motivations make more sense. I find heroes/villains have such laughable motivations at times. 3. More sarcasm and butting of authority while still being believable. 4. They have flaws that are believable and not overdone. Good heroes seem to have none and villains that's all they have. So predictable and boring.

So I'm hoping the anti-hero will return in MEA and I'm guessing the N7 character will also be kind of like an anti-villain. Not truly evil, but not truly good either. It should be interesting....at least this is my hope.

[Cz-99]

Yeah, maybe not pure evil - but definitely ruthless. I really enjoyed the SWTOR Sith Warrior storyline and DA:O, since they gave you a good amount of freedom in terms of how you respond to stuff/people.

 

I pray to Zeus that they wont go the ME3 route - where you're forced to be butt-hurt and care about scrubs X, Y and Z, or DA:I - where you can't stray too far off the White Knight path.

 

Obviously it wouldn't make sense to be able to kill anyone at any time, and certain characters need plot armor to progress the story. However, having the ability to handle non-essential characters in different ways (that sounds wrong) would be pretty sweet; especially if they're talkin' **** or you have a disagreement with them.

[malloc]

Le dastardly evil man

[Hadeedak]

With mustache-twirling, train-tracks-tying action!

[FumikoM]

Anti-hero isn't evil tho. They are still a hero, but have major flaws or have flawed motivation. Anti-hero is more in line with a chaotic neutral or good. I personally like chaotic neutrals and anti-heroes more than both good and evil characters. 1. They are believable most people aren't good or bad, but a mix. 2. Their motivations make more sense. I find heroes/villains have such laughable motivations at times. 3. More sarcasm and butting of authority while still being believable. 4. They have flaws that are believable and not overdone. Good heroes seem to have none and villains that's all they have. So predictable and boring.
So I'm hoping the anti-hero will return in MEA and I'm guessing the N7 character will also be kind of like an anti-villain. Not truly evil, but not truly good either. It should be interesting....at least this is my hope.

No, but I'm hoping we can play at least some kind of anti-hero, a vicious one. I would prefer the hero-villain, something most games does not utilize. The idea seems to be that few players want to play an evil character. SWTOR did good with the Sith Warrior, it's a great example of how one can achieve it, IMO.

[Clips7]

This has always been the heroes journey....not really being evil or having the option to be...the renegade option was and still is a perfect balance for you to play good cop/bad cop, but being completely evil would involve a whole other narrative and storyline manipulations that would just ****** off the fan base anyway if they didn't get it just right...

 

You wanna run around and cause havoc and be evil?..GTA5 is your friend.....

[Nocte ad Mortem]

What sort of choices you want or the types of characters you like to play is subjective, so I'm not saying anyone is objectively wrong, but personally I don't like "evil for the sake of evil" choices. I'm not interested in playing those types of characters, so for me it's just wasted content. I don't care if it's there, but it's ultimately resources that could have been used for something I would use instead. Thus, I'm not really in favor of them. I like morally grey choices that heavily divide people, though. I like hard choices that make you choose to do things that hurt people because you're in a situation where your only options are the better (in your opinion) of two (or more) evils. Killing babies and raping people, or whatever "I'm so dark, look at me!" choice they my throw in, doesn't appeal to me at all. It makes things too easy, because I'm just never going to choose that. Games rarely have choices that I find difficult, but I really like it when I have to stop and think about all the facets of siding with one group over another, or letting one person die to save another when they're both subjectively good people. I'm not interested in playing another villain. I'd rather they focused on developing hard choices that will push the average person to really think about what's the best course. Basically, less black and white, more grey.

[Ahriman]

It doesn't really make sense for the character background. Renegade for a military/astronaut character should be more about ruthlessness in the service of a greater good, than just evil for its own sake.

Sith Lord levels of douchery would be a better fit for the renegade path of a space pirate character.

Some people seem to forget, that biggest atrocities humanity have seen were done by military. Ideology can drown world in blood, piracy can't.