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'Crucible' as Engine


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22 réponses à ce sujet

#1
SwobyJ

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Could we be getting a Crucible-plan-technology originated engine for our Ark(s)?

 

It seemed (and really was) very random - or as many put it, a plot hole - to see the Citadel as a 'mass relay' that moved itself, or just 'boom moved by Reapers'. But maybe Bioware created the foundation there to be potentially explained in this game, where there could be many 'Citadels' produced by the Milky Way species, with similar technological capability.

 

The result is ark ships that would still require decades or centuries to cross or reach galaxies, but finally breach the boundaries of the Milky Way.

 

Of course these would be still be stupidly expensive endeavors, even with a streamlined production process, so they're not being created quickly and they're not being created on a lark. But they could be a sign of continued co-operation between the people of the Milky Way, regardless of the ME3 ending chosen. (No, I don't know how to explain any existence of Reapers or Synthesis, both of which seemingly ought to progress things further and faster than a post-Destroy galaxy.. for all we know.)

 

Arks would be the mix of (among many other things) the Citadel relay and the Crucible's power. Shepard may have decided a way to express that power to stop the Reapers, but we have historical precedents of how technology developed for sake of warfare and weaponry ends up encouraging a new level of more peaceful applications not very long afterward (one of the few nicer outcomes of conflict).

 

Hackett himself references the nuclear bomb when it comes to the Crucible. Well, we got our nuclear energy plants. I would not be surprised to see that the MEA society has gone nearly post-scarcity, at least in terms of power production. Another piece solved in the puzzle of how to colonize another galaxy.

 

~~~

Now why wouldn't the Reapers/Catalyst/whatever activate the Citadel as a ship earlier? That you can chalk up to a lot of things, good or bad about Bioware. But personally I still like to consider the possibility that even since ME1 the Reapers have been experimenting to some degree on the galaxy and even Shepard himself, and his war against the Reapers, were included in their calculations and considerations (albeit with belief until the end that he is doomed to fail). Leaving the Citadel alone in ME3 could have been part of the giving Shepard a tiny chance to produce data for them as they run their 'real time simulation cycle'.



#2
AlanC9

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But this just opens up everything that we're going to Andromeda to avoid opening up.
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#3
Kabooooom

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No, I doubt it - Walters heavily hinted that the Arks leave before the end of the Reaper War. They could barely finish one Crucible in that time.
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#4
Jedi Comedian

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Please not the giant microphone again.
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#5
dreamgazer

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Sometimes a sphere is just a sphere.
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#6
SwobyJ

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But this just opens up everything that we're going to Andromeda to avoid opening up.

 

Not sure how a premise that may have relatively minimal explanation is 'opening up', especially if it ends up that most of the game moves on past it. For all we know, it could be explained just as much as codex entries for the Normandy and Citadel (aka a few pages and couple scenes, that sort of thing).

 

No, I doubt it - Walters heavily hinted that the Arks leave before the end of the Reaper War. They could barely finish one Crucible in that time.

 

Where? I've seen all interviews with him so far, I think.

 

Please not the giant microphone again.

 

That what? I said *derived*. We already see the arks. The Crucible would be the crude original.

 

Sometimes a sphere is just a sphere.

 

And an ark in the Citadel is just an ark.

 

25tj2vr.jpg

 

 

EDIT: I know what you mean. Really. But can you address my post at least, instead of only assuming that I'm basing everything off of looks?



#7
AlanC9

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Not sure how a premise that may have relatively minimal explanation is 'opening up', especially if it ends up that most of the game moves on past it. For all we know, it could be explained just as much as codex entries for the Normandy and Citadel (aka a few pages and couple scenes, that sort of thing).


If it's post-ending, you're committing to possibly synthesized people, or you're retconning. Pick one.

#8
Kabooooom

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Not sure how a premise that may have relatively minimal explanation is 'opening up', especially if it ends up that most of the game moves on past it. For all we know, it could be explained just as much as codex entries for the Normandy and Citadel (aka a few pages and couple scenes, that sort of thing).


Where? I've seen all interviews with him so far, I think.


That what? I said *derived*. We already see the arks. The Crucible would be the crude original.


And an ark in the Citadel is just an ark.

25tj2vr.jpg


EDIT: I know what you mean. Really. But can you address my post at least, instead of only assuming that I'm basing everything off of looks?


Here, I think you missed this interview:

http://m.ign.com/art...ffect-andromeda

The too long, didn't read version: he says the endings of ME3 will have zero effect on Andromeda, and very matter-of-factly follows that with "from that, you can probably infer the timing of when the colonists left the Milky Way". Subtext: "before the endings, obviously".

He actually comes off as a tiny bit sarcastic to me, in an "obviously they leave before the endings" sort of way, but I don't think he intended it to come off that way. I think more likely he really wants to give more information as he is stoked about the game, but he can't yet.

#9
The Dystopian Hound

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DOUBTFUL.

#10
SwobyJ

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If it's post-ending, you're committing to possibly synthesized people, or you're retconning. Pick one.

 

Didn't you know, Bioware just calls it 'expanding the lore'?



#11
SwobyJ

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Here, I think you missed this interview:

http://m.ign.com/art...ffect-andromeda

The too long, didn't read version: he says the endings of ME3 will have zero effect on Andromeda, and very matter-of-factly follows that with "from that, you can probably infer the timing of when the colonists left the Milky Way". Subtext: "before the endings, obviously".

He actually comes off as a tiny bit sarcastic to me, in an "obviously they leave before the endings" sort of way, but I don't think he intended it to come off that way. I think more likely he really wants to give more information as he is stoked about the game, but he can't yet.

 

Oh I've seen that interview. I inferred something different than you. I inferred that it will not cover the shorter time after ME3, not that it was before ME3. That for all we will get, Extended Cut is the only shortly post-ME3 content, at least for now. I really didn't get the subtext you did. I thought he was only meaning that MEA will not take place in a space and time that the ME3 endings would be relevant for, but this doesn't mean it starts before the ME3 endings.

 

I think pre-ME3-endings is probably possible, don't get me wrong, but it just came off to me that he only meant that we can figure out that it isn't going to be connected to a 'post-ME3-Milky-Way' and not just in location, but in timeline. It can still start hundreds of years after ME3 for all we know, I believe. They may just want 'distance', and that can come from starting before or after the endings, just as long as it isn't in a time that has to touch on them too much.

 

And about the Synthesis stuff, sure. At least so far, that's a good counter-argument. But I don't know how far Synthesis needs to go. Circuit lines? Maybe the merge advances well enough that they 'fade away'. Synthetic and organic relations? Maybe they just settle into peace, and/or later on the peace wasn't perfect and resulted in still enough of a similar result that we get Andromeda regardless. Maybe all the endings end up in a sort of peaceful advanced state, or at least in the sort of way that the Andromeda journey can be a unified setting. Maybe all endings result, eventually, in a civilization with this necessary MEA technology, and the ME3 endings only determined the course of X years after ME3, then X years after that we are left to only imagine most of the details that result in our Andromeda story - war, peace, etc. Shepard gave the galaxy a shot, but there's possibly up to many thousands of years (not that it'll necessarily go that far) of 'blank space'. Heck, this game could take place '50,000' years later, Arks sent out in a new 'cycle', from a Milky Way civilization that has undergone, again, many thousands of years of history bringing them to this position - and Synthesis could indeed be (soft) 'retconned' out of relevance save for some new lore noting ways it could have influenced this civilization.

 

Point is, I think Bioware can technically make all the endings 'work', even if many BSNers don't. Destroy struggles but overcomes. Control disrupts but secures. Synthesis destabilizes but comes together. All reaching the same-enough result, farrr into the future, to tell this future story. Where AI is considered dangerous but manageable. Where there aren't Reapers but strong AI and 'Reaper tech level' is studied. Where there isn't peace between organic and synthetic but now a history that has broken through the Reaper cycle enough that there isn't assumed war, and there is perhaps even a sort of friendship.  Maybe. Pretty much a 'move past the organic vs synthetic theme focus' and a lighter side of how Deus Ex

Spoiler
, and letting us imagine what we want to imagine past that (maybe with spread out hints that can be taken several ways). The Krogan may have been cured or killed, but they are eventually reborn in some way. The Geth and Quarians may be tackled some way that may or may not (at least initially) include them in the Andromeda story. Any tragedy in ME3 can indeed be recovered from, with enough time and high technology, and Bioware could just have some plot flags(?) that let NPCs and text recognize the history we created from ME3, ultimately still creating this new civilization that learned new lessons one way or another. If anyone takes issue with this, well, take it also up with how Bioware has, one way or another, treated ME2, ME3, DA2, DAI. They're never going to connect and bring player choice consequences to the games' settings 'too much'. We get what we get.

 

"I'm not bound by anything. Not by you or your choices" - by Refuse Shepard may have been a stick in the gut to some fans, as a message, but maybe it is actually true. Maybe the Milky Way is bound to become this MEA state no matter what, and the Reapers are doomed to fail one way or another. We don't really know the longer term result of Control or Synthesis, though we can guess some of the benefits they provide in the shorter term, we're still dealing with Reapers and any chance for disaster and/or complications down the line. Maybe wayyy down the line.

 

Make any sense?

 

 

 

*Though in the case of Refuse, uh, well, MEA's start may have to be LONGGGG after even the ME3 endings. Enough that there would be story written that rebirths the Milky Way species after extinction or at least near extinction, as well as a whole other Reaping cycle occurring. But I suppose this timing would also fit my consideration for timing earlier in the post (~50,000 years after ME3; and no, Mac's words about a few centuries were vague enough they could be indicating of truth or not - he wasn't making declarations about specific years).

 

 

*Also, I still theorize about MEA starting pre-ME3-ending. This is just another take. I have all sorts of thoughts about the Council running something secretly. Though heck, I even find ways that both ideas could be merged - previous plans getting dusted off and put into action centuries/millennia after ME3 and spruced up and, like I said, using 'Crucible Tech'. A revival of elements of an old project. In that sense, slightly like the recent Inquisition being reborn in better form (though I'm really making a stretch so anywayyy...).

 

 

*I fully recognize that at least some parts of these may be SUPER off. Especially the 50,000 years one. Though perhaps Bioware manages to make everything vague enough that we can decide anything. N7 is just N7 Neo. Pathfinder/ARKCON is a new thing. If Cerberus is back, they be Cerberus Neo. Shepard is a legend and there's no strong indication on the timing of their life. Appearance of species is left in vague enough wording that we only get to understand that 'they're here now' with everything else still left to speculation, ETC. Could this happen?



#12
ZipZap2000

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But this just opens up everything that we're going to Andromeda to avoid opening up.


And even adds a few extra questions.

#13
SwobyJ

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And even adds a few extra questions.

 

I really don't think Bioware is *afraid* of any of this. Only wary and considerate. But that's just me.



#14
AlanC9

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Didn't you know, Bioware just calls it 'expanding the lore'?


Look, if you're pushing a retcon, then say so. That way we can at least discuss the idea honestly.
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#15
SwobyJ

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Look, if you're pushing a retcon, then say so. That way we can at least discuss the idea honestly.

 

Jokes are allowed here, right?

 

And... uh I suppose? The Crucible really wasn't explained in enough detail for us to know everything it could be or do, and its involved technology was largely handwaved as too complicated for Shepard and his journey to deal with, to the fanbase's annoyance. So yes, perhaps any 'new' application of the Crucible technology, like intergalactic travel, can be considered retcon. Or not, because there was arguably the lore hole there anyway. Thus the semi-serious joke about 'expanding the lore'.

 

DAI SPOILERS:

Spoiler

 

There's different definitions of retcon anyway. Some think it is just new information that has us look on old information in a significantly altered light than how that old information was created as. Some think it is more event based, rewriting (or effectively so) past events to be something else, adding a new level of continuity and altering the old content into 'always' having been something else.

 

How does this affect your view of this thread's idea anyway? Personally, I can like or dislike retcons and it is more the practice of it that affects my favor of it, not it happening in itself. For example, even for any of my craziest ideas, I probably wouldn't enjoy if it was reconned that nothing of ME3 ever happened in any way at all - stuff like time travel can really screw up my enjoyment of a series if done badly.



#16
Arcian

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Please not the giant microphone again.

What, you don't want Giant Space Freddie to show up and defeat the Reapers with the powers of rock?


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#17
dreamgazer

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And an ark in the Citadel is just an ark.
 
25tj2vr.jpg
 
 
EDIT: I know what you mean. Really. But can you address my post at least, instead of only assuming that I'm basing everything off of looks?

 
The ark was a cute, suggestive easter egg, yes.
 
The Crucible's technology, as it relates to power generation and integration with the relays, could potentially drive the ark ships, yes.
 
And sometimes a sphere is just a sphere.

#18
AlanC9

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Jokes are allowed here, right?

Sure, but not when they get in the way of the actual discussion, or are used to duck it.

For clarity, I'm not really interested in whether or not Crucible tech is used for the arks, except that it implies a substantially post-ME3 launch date. So, what's your plan for dealing with the ME ending worldstates?

#19
Arcian

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He actually comes off as a tiny bit sarcastic to me, in an "obviously they leave before the endings" sort of way, but I don't think he intended it to come off that way. I think more likely he really wants to give more information as he is stoked about the game, but he can't yet.

Naw, man, that's not sarcasm, that's Smug McSmuggington giving Mass Effect fans both of his middle fingers.



#20
capn233

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No, I doubt it - Walters heavily hinted that the Arks leave before the end of the Reaper War. They could barely finish one Crucible in that time.

 

Not entirely sure the writers feel that they are constrained by mundane things like logic.  It wouldn't surprise me if they somehow learn how to make these ships due to the Crucible project.



#21
dreamgazer

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Not entirely sure the writers feel that they are constrained by mundane things like logic.


Probably not, since none of the games adhere to it too strongly.
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#22
Jedi Comedian

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What, you don't want Giant Space Freddie to show up and defeat the Catalyst with the powers of rock?

You mean Marauder Shields? He tried, he ****** tried...

#23
Kabooooom

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Jokes are allowed here, right?

And... uh I suppose? The Crucible really wasn't explained in enough detail for us to know everything it could be or do, and its involved technology was largely handwaved as too complicated for Shepard and his journey to deal with, to the fanbase's annoyance. So yes, perhaps any 'new' application of the Crucible technology, like intergalactic travel, can be considered retcon. Or not, because there was arguably the lore hole there anyway. Thus the semi-serious joke about 'expanding the lore'.

DAI SPOILERS:

Spoiler


There's different definitions of retcon anyway. Some think it is just new information that has us look on old information in a significantly altered light than how that old information was created as. Some think it is more event based, rewriting (or effectively so) past events to be something else, adding a new level of continuity and altering the old content into 'always' having been something else.

How does this affect your view of this thread's idea anyway? Personally, I can like or dislike retcons and it is more the practice of it that affects my favor of it, not it happening in itself. For example, even for any of my craziest ideas, I probably wouldn't enjoy if it was reconned that nothing of ME3 ever happened in any way at all - stuff like time travel can really screw up my enjoyment of a series if done badly.

Maybe...but we are using current Milky Way tech in Andromeda. The M-40 Mako - we used the M-35 Mako and M-44 Hammerhead in the trilogy. The guns are the same. The FTL journey of 600 years (from the most recent interview, Walters seems to have let that slip) is almost exactly how long it would take at 12 ly/day, which is current FTL speed...granted, tech doesn't seem to advance much in Mass Effect but after ME3, it certainly should.

I think the vast majority of the evidence strongly points to a pre ME3 ending departure.

EDIT: oops, quoted the wrong post. this was in reference to your response to me.
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