253 réponses à ce sujet

[FumikoM]

In one of the new interviews with Marc Walters there was something about players wanting more grey choices, and this being the future for ME. I'm guessing this means no renegade or paragon? So more like DA:I? 

 

There was really just one thing that I was afraid they would take from Dragon Age: Inquisition; The forced idea that I have to be a hero, no matter what. I always had to be good and willing.

 

Yes there where grey choices. But the "evil" ones, (or aggressive) was nothing like previous DA games. The Inquisitor had nothing on Hawke. Or Shepard, for that matter. The difference between good, neutral and aggressive choices in DA:I were tiny really: 

 

Good: "I respect your opinion"

Neutral: "Well, that's just like your opinion, man"

Aggressive: "You're being mean to me, please stop before I cry".

 

Whereas Hawke or Shepard, in the least line, would have said: "just shut up before I shoot/cut you". And probably would have if the NPC did not.

 

To me it was the biggest disappointment with DA:I. Why I still prefer DA2 over it.

 

I'm not expecting the SWTOR Sith Warrior evil (oh how I love her) or aggressive tone and her actions. But please tell me you did not completely remove the ability to play someone like a renegade Shepard. I don't want to be a hero, at least let me play an anti-hero.

 

Because if you are talking about grey choices, don't remove the aggressive one and make them into another variation of good and neutral. Like what happened in DA:I. Less black choices does not mean more grey. It just means more white, IMO.

[The Dystopian Hound]

There's paragon/Grey/Renegade. It's in the middle. Like they are going to get rid of Paragon and renegade.

[EpicNewb]

There's paragon/Grey/Renegade. It's in the middle.

Yes

 

Many people voiced that having more middle options like part 1 and 2 would have made 3 greater

[FumikoM]

There's paragon/Grey/Renegade. It's in the middle. Like they are going to get rid of Paragon and renegade.

 

You mean on the dialogue wheel? Has this been confirmed?

 

Yes

 

Many people voiced that having more middle options like part 1 and 2 would have made 3 greater

 

Some people loved what they did with DA:I, with more dialogue options. But all they did was remove the more aggressive/vile ones and made us more grey. I personally hated that. The single reason why I have still not finished DA:I. But I played through DA2 multiple times.

[dreamgazer]

Yes
 
Many people voiced that having more middle options like part 1 and 2 would have made 3 greater

Part 2 didn't have many middle options, either.

[Spooch]

I'd be completely fine with getting rid of paragon and renegade. Let the player decide what's good and what's not. I can think of at least one time I disagreed with the game on whether something was paragon or renegade. During Bring Down the Sky there is that batarian, Charn. He says that he doesn't want to fight and that he thought they were just going on a slave raid. The "paragon" choice is letting him go without a fight and the "renegade" choice is to kill him for what he did. Even when I'm paragon I kill him, he murdered people and intended to enslave people. I see killing him as paragon because you bring him to justice despite the risks, while I see letting him go as renegade because you let him get away so you can skip the fight, but the game tells me that letting this slaver go scot-free so that he can go enslave people again is paragon.

[RZIBARA]

Part 2 didn't have many middle options, either.

 

it did?

[KirkyX]

Part 2 didn't have many middle options, either.

 

I'm replaying ME2 right now, and there seem to be quite a few. I'd go so far as to say that there's probably more than there are in ME1, since I've yet to come across an instance of two separate options on the wheel giving me exactly the same dialogue.

 

Walters thinks the old system “was a core part of who Shepard was” and fit with the original trilogy, but when it comes to the future, “I think now we’re moving away from that. We’ve been looking for other ways to engage more of those shades of grey; less about it being obviously being right or wrong and more about giving people a sense of choice”.

 

 

(Gamesradar)

 

Anyway, on topic: I didn't take that interview to imply that they were removing the ability to be a dick, or whatever--I think the idea is that they don't want to make it so obvious which, if any, choice is the 'right thing to do'. Think of it more like DA: O or - sorry - The Witcher 3 than DA: I. You're given plenty of tough choices, but there's not a colour-coded system telling you which option you ought to pick, leaving it up to the player's own morality/judgement.

 

Personally, I'm very much in favour of the idea. Some DA2-style 'tone' icons for the regular dialogue, to give you a better idea of whether the line-read's going to be diplomatic, sarcastic, angry or whatever would be nice, too.

[Excella Gionne]

I know ME3 had a bit of a mechanic where if you were more renegade some of the renegade lines are said with more negativity like when you react with renegade dialogues to Ashley or Kaidan on Mars. I wish something like this could be implemented. If the game notices that you are more renegade, certain lines will be said differently even if you chose like a more paragon-like option. 

[dreamgazer]

I'm replaying ME2 right now, and there seem to be quite a few.

Jeez, I'm thinking about P or R end-conversation choices, not just dialogue. Yeah, there's enough middle-ground dialogue in ME2.

[spinachdiaper]

1,000% less video gamey

[The Dystopian Hound]

You mean on the dialogue wheel? Has this been confirmed?

how else are you gonna make the choice?

[KirkyX]

I know ME3 had a bit of a mechanic where if you were more renegade some of the renegade lines are said with more negativity like when you react with renegade dialogues to Ashley or Kaidan on Mars. I wish something like this could be implemented. If the game notices that you are more renegade, certain lines will be said differently even if you chose like a more paragon-like option. 

 

Ah, yeah--I'm pretty sure they did something similar in DA2 with the various personalities.

[FumikoM]

I know ME3 had a bit of a mechanic where if you were more renegade some of the renegade lines are said with more negativity like when you react with renegade dialogues to Ashley or Kaidan on Mars. I wish something like this could be implemented. If the game notices that you are more renegade, certain lines will be said differently even if you chose like a more paragon-like option.

Which most likely is not in unless they also track renegade and paragon. With more grey choices I don't see this happening.

Anyway, I liked that system. I hope they don't take away the possibility to build your character. The way we could with Shepard and Hawke. Is seems likely they will though considering DA:I. Bethesda does the same with their games; no matter your previous choices you kinda reset to being a grey lump at every dialogue. Is why you have to pretend a lot more, instead of it being in the game. All it does is take away the RP in the game. Because the pretending and headcanon people talk about you can do in COD, or any game really. But I play RPG's for a reason.

[Grieving Natashina]

I'm okay without such a stark Naive Hero/Utter Jerk alignment system. The main thing I'm going to miss if that is removed is interrupts. I really like the spur of the moment reactions and some were just fun. Some were sweet, like Tali's hug. Some were awesome, like a paragon Shep threatening to pistol whip Dr. Archer.

[Monster A-Go Go]

I'm okay without such a stark Naive Hero/Utter Jerk alignment system. The main thing I'm going to miss if that is removed is interrupts. I really like the spur of the moment reactions and some were just fun. Some were sweet, like Tali's hug. Some were awesome, like a paragon Shep threatening to pistol whip Dr. Archer.

 

Is there anything saying that they're getting rid of this?  Because otherwise I don't think that obfuscation of Paragon and Renegade means that interrupts will be out of the game.  Just establish that LT is Peaceful and RT is Hostile and leave it in.  After all, a hostile action isn't always an immoral one, nor is a peaceful action always the right thing to do.

[Grieving Natashina]

Is there anything saying that they're getting rid of this?  Because otherwise I don't think that obfuscation of Paragon and Renegade means that interrupts will be out of the game.  Just establish that LT is Peaceful and RT is Hostile and leave it in.  After all, a hostile action isn't always an immoral one, nor is a peaceful action always the right thing to do.

As the OP said, it's us reading into what the devs said. Who knows they are thinking at this point? However, I'm not taking it as the idea that the system was removed. I was only posting my opinons on the subject. This is a reasonable thread considering the more...er...active and passionate threads as of late. My puppy is recovering from minor surgery and the friendly topic is a nice relief.

I'm still a little concerned that interrupts could be removed if the P/R system is taken out. I felt that was one of the most unique parts of gameplay I've ever seen. I really like your idea though and I can't see why that wouldn't work as well.

It's something I'm not going to fret over. I'll roll with anything BioWare does with that system.

[themikefest]

I'm okay without such a stark Naive Hero/Utter Jerk alignment system. The main thing I'm going to miss if that is removed is interrupts. I really like the spur of the moment reactions and some were just fun. Some were sweet, like Tali's hug. Some were awesome, like a paragon Shep threatening to pistol whip Dr. Archer.

There were some missed opportuniies in ME3 that needed an interrupt

 

I would also agree that I would also miss interrupts if not in the game

[KirkyX]

As the OP said, it's us reading into what the devs said. Who knows they are thinking at this point? However, I'm not taking it as the idea that the system was removed. I was only posting my opinons on the subject. This is a reasonable thread considering the more...er...active and passionate threads as of late. My puppy is recovering from minor surgery and the friendly topic is a nice relief.

I'm still a little concerned that interrupts could be removed if the P/R system is taken out. I felt that was one of the most unique parts of gameplay I've ever seen. I really like your idea though and I can't see why that wouldn't work as well.

It's something I'm not going to fret over. I'll roll with anything BioWare does with that system.

This is from the big survey leak, so it's not official - even if everything we've seen so far has pointed to that leak being pretty genuine - but I still feel like it's worth mentioning with how specifically relevant it is to this topic:

 

"Building upon the rich history of strategic dialogue that has defined the Mass Effect series, you can make meaningful choices in every conversation you have with characters that impact the way your game evolves. The next Mass Effect adds deeper control over your conversations through a greater ability to interrupt and change the course of the conversation as it is happening. During certain conversations, you will be able to take action based choices, such as the option to pull out your gun and force someone to open a door instead of convincing them to do it through conversational guile. Action based choices give you more options for how you approach dialogue with characters in the game and can lead to more extreme outcomes on the story as it evolves around the decisions you make when interacting with a huge cast of NPC characters."

 

So, assuming that's not a load of bollocks, it sounds like they're planning to significantly expand the interrupt system, if anything.

 

Hope your puppy's doing okay! My dog's coming up on ten, which is fairly old for her breed, and it's always ridiculously stressful whenever she has a health problem bad enough to need surgery. 

[Hair Serious Business]

There's paragon/Grey/Renegade. It's in the middle. Like they are going to get rid of Paragon and renegade.

 

Biggest problem with that grey option is that game was forcing you into being paragon/renegade in here so you actually have real choice unlocked and not "LOL I screwed up" default choices.

[fizzypop]

I would prefer we get rid of the system and work off of a more blended one. Where your actions and what you say blend into several different personalities which changes the actions you have available and the dialogue open to you. It improves replay value, but it also pushes you to define your character more. The only exception to this would be romance/friendship I would prefer all of those conversations not change your personal alignment that or do something similar to DA2 where your companions can like or hate you, but will still stick it out. I know most didn't really like the system, but I actually did because it encouraged me to play characters differently to see the changes in companion relationships. If they do that they should make it better than DA2 and less restrictive. Make it possible for a character to kind of like and hate me all at the same time instead of having to push them in one direction or another.

[Clips7]

Hmmm...idk...i like the whole Paragon/Renegade system. It was kinda cool havin' to make those quick decisions on the fly... ...when I first played those games, the quick time events for those scenarios almost caught me off guard....I do believe the other games had the grey area...well i can only speak of 2 & 3, but that had to be built up based on your Paragon/Renegade level. It was a nice mix and for the most part i was satisfied with the options the games provided, because the responses wasn't faulty or unrealistic.

 

The responses they created seemed genuine as to what Shepard would say in that particular scenario.

[ZipZap2000]

I'm okay without such a stark Naive Hero/Utter Jerk alignment system. The main thing I'm going to miss if that is removed is interrupts. I really like the spur of the moment reactions and some were just fun. Some were sweet, like Tali's hug. Some were awesome, like a paragon Shep threatening to pistol whip Dr. Archer.

Hope they keep that in some way. It was a genuinely good addition.

[Ahriman]

I just hope these "shades of gray", Walters mentioned, won't turn into 50 shades of neutral response from old trilogy.

Gathering points from blowing/not blowing up some robots in order to pass occasional dialogue checks wasn't the brightest part of P/R system, but at least it gave writers direction to some memorable moments.

[nOrio_26]

Not only black and white, I think. Just like ME3? Add up all the moral point.