253 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr.House]

And he has to be a despicable person to earnestly just represent that without comment or fighting back, it amounts to enforcement and support of the concept.

 

Like if I just make a character and just have them kill everything in a video game for no reason, that's effectively acknowledging it as valid, or comprehensible or something.

 

Not everyone is like his characters.

Yes, he's despicable because he preferred to write a story with realistic characters that shows just how dark humanity can be. There have been morally good characters in ASOIAF, they die very quickly because they are not willing to get their hands dirty by people who are willing. That's real life.

[Mr.House]

Anyway I'm just over gray, 50 Shades of Gray sucked, all these gray anti-heroic characters suck, it's old hat, bring on the empowered moralities and characters that don't wallow in pity or confusion or project that onto the world.

What does a shitty book like 50 shades of grey have to do with grey morality?

[Seraphim24]

Most morality hypotheticals require someone, sometime, to be a jerk, yes. Sometimes it's God, even.

 

Why don't we create new ones?

[Seraphim24]

Yes, he's despicable because he preferred to write a story with realistic characters that shows just how dark humanity can be. There have been morally good characters in ASOIAF, they die very quickly because they are not willing to get their hands dirty by people who are willing. That's real life.

 

I don't need GRRM to tell me there's crappy people, Nazis Stalin the Khmer Rouge whatever there's evil people everywhere, I just don't get why we tell stories about them. They're trash who cares about their stories.

[Helios969]

You can't have a Mass Effect game without Paragon or Renegade.  That's like playing Kotor without a lightside/darkside option.  They just need to make it less stupid; and have companions and NPC's more reactive to your established behavior...that's probably the most important aspect.  I thought ME3's reputation system was a vast improvement over ME2's very restrictive choose all Paragon/Renegade options to unlock key dialogue later in the game.  And we definitely need at least one more option (which sounds like is happening) - either a neutral or a humorous (Hawke) - preferably both.

[Seraphim24]

You can't have a Mass Effect game without Paragon or Renegade.  That's like playing Kotor without a lightside/darkside option.  They just need to make it less stupid; and have companions and NPC's more reactive to your established behavior...that's probably the most important aspect.  I thought ME3's reputation system was a vast improvement over ME2's very restrictive choose all Paragon/Renegade options to unlock key dialogue later in the game.  And we definitely need at least one more option (which sounds like is happening) - either a neutral or a humorous (Hawke) - preferably both.

 

I'd even settle for that, anything better than more gray, gray is like the ugliest color anyway.

[Mr.House]

I don't need GRRM to tell me there's crappy people, Nazis Stalin the Khmer Rouge whatever there's evil people everywhere, I just don't get why we tell stories about them. They're trash who cares about their stories.

Because people have different taste then you and like to enjoy different type of stories.

[Mr.House]

Fine, then lets go with orange and blue mortality,  that's way more interesting.

[iM3GTR]

Yes. Shepard has a "stay dead" or whatever type of quote - it's done with a great deal of malice.

I really hated that line and the evil squinty-eyed expression on Shepard's face. I really wish there were four options at least.

E.G - Free the queen, leave the decision for the council, kill the queen out of fear that the rachni might go crazy and kill people again, and the plain evil moustache twirling jerk choice.

[Seraphim24]

Because people have different taste then you and like to enjoy different type of stories.

 

There's nothing to really enjoy in those stories, GOT is just one big kill fetish against all the people who "wronged" him for being ugly or something throughout his life, anyway whatever I just think he's the biggest degenerate there is.

 

I guess if people are going to consume it thought what are you going to do there it is.

[AlanC9]

I'm not referring to just the meters. From what I gathered in the article, the whole thing of Paragon and Renegade choices are being thrown away and being replaced with shades of grey choices. I'm not a fan of now having to choose the least evil choice rather than choosing a genuinely good choice.

Wait a minute. If "(m)oral ambiguity is nonsense. An act is either right or it is wrong. The concept of moral ambiguity is just a mechanism for people who commit wrongdoings to convince themselves it wasn't wrong," then how does this make any sense?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Wait a minute. If "(m)oral ambiguity is nonsense. An act is either right or it is wrong. The concept of moral ambiguity is just a mechanism for people who commit wrongdoings to convince themselves it wasn't wrong," then this doesn't make any sense.

What part confuses you? 

[AlanC9]

How is it that the least evil available choice isn't "genuinely good"?

[Mr.House]

There's nothing to really enjoy in those stories, GOT is just one big kill fetish against all the people who "wronged" him for being ugly or something throughout his life, anyway whatever I just think he's the biggest degenerate there is.

 

I guess if people are going to consume it thought what are you going to do there it is.

Just because you see nothing of value does not mean others do not.

[Seraphim24]

Yeah I'm not getting the confusion either, was pretty clear to me.

[Seraphim24]

Just because you see nothing of value does not mean others do not.

 

Why can't we chalk that up to moral ambiguity?

[Sylvius the Mad]

Moral ambiguity is nonsense. An act is either right or it is wrong. The concept of moral ambiguity is just a mechanism for people who commit wrongdoings to convince themselves it wasn't wrong.

There is zero evidence for this.

I could just as easily claim that the concept of right and wrong is nonsense and was just invented so the people in charge could tell people how to live. There's no evidence for that, either, so it makes a neatly balanced counterpoint.

But I do maintain that there is no reasoned basis behind any moral claim.

[Seraphim24]

How is it that the least evil available choice isn't "genuinely good"?

 

How is not? Not getting your issue, although I guess this convo is with Hanako.

[Helios969]

I'd even settle for that, anything better than more gray, gray is like the ugliest color anyway.

Damn, now I have to go purchase a new wardrobe.

[Seraphim24]

There is zero evidence for this.

I could just as easily claim that the concept of right and wrong is nonsense and was just invented so the people in charge could tell people how to live. There's no evidence for that, either, so it makes a neatly balanced counterpoint.

But I do maintain that there is no reasoned basis behind any moral claim.

 

You are wrong.

[Shechinah]

Yes, he's despicable because he preferred to write a story with realistic characters that shows just how dark humanity can be. There have been morally good characters in ASOIAF, they die very quickly because they are not willing to get their hands dirty by people who are willing. That's real life.

 

I disagree: I see it more as George R. R. Martin not wanting to cheat to let the protagonists win and likewise he does not want to cheat to have the antagonists win. This means both feel the consequences of their character flaws and actions.

 

Take the Red Wedding and how in large part it came about;

 

Robb Stark was willing to dirty his own hands. His death was the fatal result of his flaw of honor: he felt honor bound to marry a woman whose virginity he'd taken when she consoled him about the death of his brothers. This lead to Walter Frey feeling spat on as Robb Stark had promised to marry a woman of Frey's house. As revenge, Walter Frey arranged the Red Wedding leading to the death of Robb Stark.

 

This pettiness was in turn the flaw of Walter Frey. As a consequence of what he'd done in betraying Robb Stark and breaking the rule of sacred hospility, people began targeting members of his house which had it's reputation utterly ruined. The exact opposite of what Walter Frey wanted had happened as now no one respects the Frey house and now even more people than before spits on it and considers it beneath them.
 

[Sylvius the Mad]

You are wrong.

Based on what?

Do you have an actual reason to hold that opinion?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

How is it that the least evil available choice isn't "genuinely good"?

Because it is still an evil, thus isn't genuinely good. 

[Seraphim24]

Based on what?

Do you have an actual reason to hold that opinion?

 

Show me a person who likes getting hit by buses.

[Shechinah]

There's nothing to really enjoy in those stories, GOT is just one big kill fetish against all the people who "wronged" him for being ugly or something throughout his life, anyway whatever I just think he's the biggest degenerate there is.

 

I guess if people are going to consume it thought what are you going to do there it is.

 

I disagree but to each their own opinion.