99 réponses à ce sujet

[mgagne]

As for the main topic, I think BW successfully created a different atmosphere in each of the three games.  Whether or not it was intentional or simply a consequence of them trying to accommodate the complaints/criticisms from each previous title we can only guess.  If the foreshadowing of Tevinter we saw comes true I expect the pendulum to swing back to a close knit group in DA4, after a continent spanning organization, so once more the dynamics between the PC and his companions will be different.  And quite frankly I don't think we should hope for the same tone in every DA title, because then we would hear nothing but moaning and gnashing of teeth about how formulaic the series had become.

[vbibbi]

As for the main topic, I think BW successfully created a different atmosphere in each of the three games.  Whether or not it was intentional or simply a consequence of them trying to accommodate the complaints/criticisms from each previous title we can only guess.  If the foreshadowing of Tevinter we saw comes true I expect the pendulum to swing back to a close knit group in DA4, after a continent spanning organization, so once more the dynamics between the PC and his companions will be different.  And quite frankly I don't think we should hope for the same tone in every DA title, because then we would hear nothing but moaning and gnashing of teeth about how formulaic the series had become.

 

lol well that's definitely not one of the criticisms DA has faced

[tanzensehen]

Personally my favourite companions were the ones in DA2. Not only it evolved during the years, but they both managed to do their own stuff while still being very close to Hawke and to each other. And they were there because of Hawke.
(And you could feel the difference when they disagreed with you or ignored you).

The relationships in Inquisition were very professional - aside from Cassandra, Dorian, Sera and maybe Cole and Solas (look, he might be trying to destroy the world, but his baffled face when he discovered that he liked the Inquisitor and that maybe racism was bad was very touching!). But while both DA:O and DA:I have people joining you for a greater cause, personally I liked DA:O a bit more because once you befriended them, their friendship felt more powerful - probably because you were a Grey Warden, not "Their Worship Leading the People". Or maybe because more characters in Inquisition were reserved, while even Loghain in DA:O wasn't, since the characters in DA:I are here to do their job.
Personally I think that characters like Vivienne or Blackwall (or Josephine) kind of backfired, because by being reserved and full of secrets, it was hard to befriend them until mid-game.
(At least Cullen has a lot of content during the invasion of Haven).
Even Blackwall's romance had a weird "This is too much!" moment even if you had flirted maybe twice and all he had to say about himself before was "Let's do good things!".
On the other hand at least the Inquisitor's friend stay in contact and care about them while everyone runs off to do their own stuff after DA:O.
So DA:I is better but it gives me less people to feel close with, I guess.

I like that Varric is more distant, I'm torm about Leliana. It makes sense for her to turn to the Inquisitor after her world shatters but you'd think that the love of her life would also play a role in her decision of what kind of person she wants to be. (Then again the HoF can't be bothered to write a letter once in a while so who knows).

[Toasted Llama]

And quite frankly I don't think we should hope for the same tone in every DA title, because then we would hear nothing but moaning and gnashing of teeth about how formulaic the series had become.

 

Something I never understood; people complain and demand that Bioware make a game akin to DA:O because it was apparently Bioware's second coming of Christ, but when other companies do that type of stuff (like Ubisoft), the games are continously written off as bad games because they're "milking the franchise" or "more of the same with no innovation".

[nightscrawl]

(I'm still irked that he calls the Inquisitor his only friend. Pretty insulting to Cole, Sera, Varric and IB).

 
There's Maevaris as well; they seem to be pretty close. I think that has more to do with how meaningful the friendship is to him and how that friendship came about during a period where he was struggling. The Inquisitor was supportive during a time when he had no one else and I think he will always remember and cherish that. Even the romance with Iron Bull doesn't start off that way, as is evidenced by their banter.

 

However, there is also the fact that "friendship" means different things to different people. (Leaving out Bull because of potential romance.) He may feel that Sera, Varric, and Cole, or any of the others are close acquaintances, or "work friends"; he may enjoy hanging out with them and trust them to have his back in a fight. But he may be more emotionally close to the Inquisitor as his best friend, so the tone of that line is also reflective of that.

 

He's also just a passionate person in general, so I don't mind his moment of hyperbole and don't think it's a dig at any of his other friends. He's not often emotionally effusive, even during the romance (which is an issue some have with it), but when he is he does go a bit overboard. It's really "all or nothing" with him most of the time.

[nightscrawl]

Something I never understood; people complain and demand that Bioware make a game akin to DA:O because it was apparently Bioware's second coming of Christ, but when other companies do that type of stuff (like Ubisoft), the games are continously written off as bad games because they're "milking the franchise" or "more of the same with no innovation".

Hah that's quite the phrasing. XD

[Al Foley]

Suffice to say I feel the exact opposite from the OP in their 'TLDR' version of his post.  Which is a funny trend btw.  Though to claim DA I's story is light and fluffy is just blind.  Sure it wasn't in your face as the broodmother, but there were just as many horrorific events to where the only reason why I think people make this claim is that Ferelden was brown and dark colors and sort of just generally doom and gloomy whereas Inquisition had a whole host of colors to feast the eyes on. 

[mgagne]

Something I never understood; people complain and demand that Bioware make a game akin to DA:O because it was apparently Bioware's second coming of Christ, but when other companies do that type of stuff (like Ubisoft), the games are continously written off as bad games because they're "milking the franchise" or "more of the same with no innovation".

 

 

That's humans for you: contrarian c*nts. 

 

 

Seriously I think a lot of this has to do with nostalgia.  There's a direct relationship between how much someone enjoyed a title and how often it is used as a comparative stick with whatever comes after.  DAO was a threshold in '09.  W3 was another in '15 - there are other examples and there will be more in the future. 

 

We are each of us 'blown away' by different things and since we all think of ourselves as the epicenter of the multiverse you can easily see how complications will arise.

[Vilegrim]

You had me up until 'pussified' and 'I don't hate gay people but they shouldn't be in computer games' 

[correctamundo]

At least I got a good laugh at it (the OP i.e.)

[Zero]

Having a different skin on your allies in the final battle pretty much irrelevant. It's trivial changes like this and minor dialogues in terms of in game effects. Nothing more. Your decisions do not affect the course of the game. It still plays out the same every time.

 

You're right there. But still it feel like my decisions matter. That I can do stuff that impact the game world, and the game acknowledges that. Because whatever you do, the NPCs will recognize what you did, and the consequences of your decisions will be reflected in the gameplay. 

 

There is no scenario in DAI (until Trespasser) in which, if you steal from the dalish, a random encounter will happen in which the dalish will be after you. Or if you accept Vaughan's gold, your family and pals in the Alienage will scorn you. Or having the maid take over the tavern. Yeah, little details that maybe don't change how the story unfolds, but that still feel rewarding, that let you feel like your decisions matter. 

 

Regardless if DAI gave me a new story if I choose between templars and mages, is pointless if I don't feel that I can impact the outcome of that story. And sadly, that only happens once, making my decisions feel more meaningless in the process. 

 

Really, the only time I felt like my choices mattered in DAI was with Bull in Trespasser. Heartbreaking or not, something I did impacted the gameworld in such a way I felt something I did had a consequence beyond the needs of the script. Bull's destiny in Trespasser isn't something decided by the writers, but by me. I wish there were more moments like that in DAI.

 

(Sorry if my grammar is shaky here, I don't have confidence in my English, yet).

 

The other stuff... LGTB characters have existed since DAO (Leliana, Zevran, some NPCs), so I don't get why is people complaining about that.

 

The relationship between companions seems realistic, because they were professional companions rather than actual friends (unless you choose to go the romance route) since you recruited them. 

[Dai Grepher]

I like DA:I, and it was good, but it wasn't the epic decision-based adventure that was advertised in the demo.

OP is right that DA:O was dark and tragic, while DA:I was more colorful and fanciful.

[Phoe77]

What about Origins makes it tragic though?  I'm asking as someone who does not know (and usually wouldn't care about) the actual literary definition.  The first definition that comes up when I google it really doesn't seem to fit Origins well at all considering the protagonist does not fail and is not "brought to ruin".  There are sad things of course, particularly in most of the Origin stories, but that wasn't enough to make the game as a whole seem tragic to me, especially when everything ends up going your way in the end. 

 

I do agree that Origins typically seems more - I don't know - dour? than Inquisition does, though.  Still, I think it's that every game doesn't have the same tone. 

[Abyss108]

Origins wasn't dark or tragic. Some people just like to pretend it was because bad things happen to small NPCs, whilst everybody important, mainly themselves, gain everything they want and they get to be the most super special hero that ever existed. 

[Catilina]

I like DA:I, and it was good, but it wasn't the epic decision-based adventure that was advertised in the demo.

OP is right that DA:O was dark and tragic, while DA:I was more colorful and fanciful.

DA2 was tragic and dark.

[Kabraxal]

DA2 was tragic and dark.

And sometimes to its detriment... There were a few times near the end of Act II and into Act III where I would pause, go "really?" Then shake it off. I haven't had that stumble with any other Bioware title outside of the ending for ME3 (which was total ejection from the suspension of disbelief).

[Dai Grepher]

DA2 was tragic and dark.

DA2 wasn't the topic though.

[BansheeOwnage]

 

He's also just a passionate person in general, so I don't mind his moment of hyperbole and don't think it's a dig at any of his other friends. He's not often emotionally effusive, even during the romance (which is an issue some have with it), but when he is he does go a bit overboard. It's really "all or nothing" with him most of the time.

He says that's a trait common in Tevinter

 

Anyway, about Dorian: People have been mentioning his "going-away party", and while I do remember that, I don't remember it having so many people. My memory of Trespasser is fuzzy because I've only played it once, at launch, in a rush, and stressed Who shows up? Do they all always show up?

[nightscrawl]

He says that's a trait common in Tevinter

 

Anyway, about Dorian: People have been mentioning his "going-away party", and while I do remember that, I don't remember it having so many people. My memory of Trespasser is fuzzy because I've only played it once, at launch, in a rush, and stressed Who shows up? Do they all always show up?

 

I've only done it once and I don't really recall who all was there other than Varric and Iron Bull (passed out drunk). Someone else in the thread said something about it depending on his friendship with people, but I don't think that's accurate. As I said, in my play Iron Bull was there and I never took him anywhere, so they weren't able to become friends in banter. If Sera, Blackwall or anyone else were there (and I just don't recall), the same applies to them as well, but I don't bring them along. The ONLY people I took along with me during that play were Dorian, Cassandra, Cole, and Varric (subbed for Cass on occasion). That's it for my preferred crew. So if there is any dynamism with that scene AT ALL, it's not based on banter friendship with Dorian.

[Dai Grepher]

Those in attendance were Dorian, Iron Bull (passed out), Varric, Sera, Cole, and the Inquisitor.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

I can't decide if I like OP's post or not. I agree that DAI failed in some aspects but I don't care about political correctness or not.

[vbibbi]

He says that's a trait common in Tevinter

 

Anyway, about Dorian: People have been mentioning his "going-away party", and while I do remember that, I don't remember it having so many people. My memory of Trespasser is fuzzy because I've only played it once, at launch, in a rush, and stressed Who shows up? Do they all always show up?

 

 

I've only done it once and I don't really recall who all was there other than Varric and Iron Bull (passed out drunk). Someone else in the thread said something about it depending on his friendship with people, but I don't think that's accurate. As I said, in my play Iron Bull was there and I never took him anywhere, so they weren't able to become friends in banter. If Sera, Blackwall or anyone else were there (and I just don't recall), the same applies to them as well, but I don't bring them along. The ONLY people I took along with me during that play were Dorian, Cassandra, Cole, and Varric (subbed for Cass on occasion). That's it for my preferred crew. So if there is any dynamism with that scene AT ALL, it's not based on banter friendship with Dorian.

 

You guys! I can't believe you haven't played this scene more than once. It doesn't vary, assuming all companions are recruited. It's always IB, Varric, Cole, and Sera. I have to say, this is one of my favorite friendship scenes of DAI; it felt more like DA2 than most of the game. I love Sera's "speech! speech! way too much speech!"

 

The party starts at 1:58:

 

[nightscrawl]

^ I've only done the whole of Trespasser a single time. I'm still not ready to play it again... =/ I need to eventually, mostly because I want to do reloads and see the various Dorian conversation paths.

[BansheeOwnage]

You guys! I can't believe you haven't played this scene more than once. It doesn't vary, assuming all companions are recruited. It's always IB, Varric, Cole, and Sera. I have to say, this is one of my favorite friendship scenes of DAI; it felt more like DA2 than most of the game. I love Sera's "speech! speech! way too much speech!"

 

The party starts at 1:58:

Just watched it again, thanks. I remembered Varric and passed-out Bull, but I completely forgot about Sera and Cole (which isn't surprising considering he doesn't talk). As far as being a friendship scene, it is nice, but it's mostly nice in a sort of implied way, unfortunately, since only Varric contributes anything of value there. Also Sera's humour once again falls flat for me Still, these scenes are few-and-far-between, so I'll take them when I can get them

 

That DA2 feel, as you put it, is definitely something I wish there was more of this time around. On that note, I'd like to be able to have more of these moments before the "final goodbye" DLCs in the next game. It's great, but simultaneously heart-wrenching when that's the case, like Citadel and Trespasser. I'd like become good friends with the companions sometime midway through the game, that way I can actually experience being their good friend instead of just get to that point by the end.

[BansheeOwnage]

^ I've only done the whole of Trespasser a single time. I'm still not ready to play it again... =/ I need to eventually, mostly because I want to do reloads and see the various Dorian conversation paths.

Yeah... I don't think I've quite recovered from it. I'm sure I'll do it again next time I do a playthrough (actually, finish my current unfinished one), but for now, I can wait. I did keep a save there and reload it a few times to see the different Cullen dialogue though, because of course I did