196 réponses à ce sujet

[dreamgazer]

It's a game series that panders to the dudebro element of yesterday.

FYI: inaccurately associating The Witcher 3 with "dudebro" anything will either earn you ire or make moderate folks like myself check out of the conversation entirely.

[The Dystopian Hound]

So you are the fan of DAI.. I've heard rumors that you should exist but never really believed them.

You'd be surprised.

[Squish]

-snatches Justice and frolics off to the DA:I forum-

[Addictress]

And what about Solas ?

Oh true, that is a third element I enjoy

[Almostfaceman]

I see....

 

You know there's a whole forum full of you people in the Dragon Age section right? 

 

*Swirls Ryncol*

 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

quick question: i dont think i would enjoy me 2 or 3 without playin the previous ones before... the same goes for dai? will i have a good time having not played origins and da2?

My friend started Dragon Age with Dragon Age: Inquisition, and they had a great time with it. 

[KotorEffect3]

Ignoring the whole social justice argument that is going on in this thread I think there are both pointers MEA can take from DAI as well as pitfalls DAI made that MEA should avoid.  In this sense I am glad that the DA team was the first  bioware team to get a crack at the frostbite engine.  The ME team benefits from seeing what was done and what the feedback was.  Pitfalls to be avoided would be things like how sidequests were designed and how filler content was used to pad the game out.  Things I liked were the creative level design (something I expect MEA to surpass DAI in), the keep system in which we captured keeps and used them as mini hubs for the inquisition.  I can see a similar thing working well in MEA in which maybe we construct and hold bases on different planets.  I actually enjoyed the war table and while it wasn't perfect I liked tinkering with the different scenarios from it,  Now while it wasn't perfect I liked the idea of it because it allowed us to see the bigger picture of what we were doing.  Now I don't expect Ryder to have the same level authority that the Inquisitor had but I believe as the story progresses we will have more pull and influence in the expedition and as planets and resources are gained we will need to manage in a similar way the Inquisitor managed the inquisition.  For example I can see us sending out diplomatic envoys to secure trade agreements or military alliances with non hostile species or sending out military forces to hold or even gain new colonial assets.

[Gileadan]

quick question: i dont think i would enjoy me 2 or 3 without playin the previous ones before... the same goes for dai? will i have a good time having not played origins and da2?

Unlike the ME series, the Dragon Age series does not feature a returning protagonist. Each one is a fresh adventure that, while it does have some references to previous events, can well be enjoyed on its own. I'd say give it a shot.

[Cyonan]

The problem with DA:I is that it spends so much time trying to show you how accepted everybody should be that it forgot its own lore.

 

If developers want to tackle social issues then it's fine as long as it doesn't get in the way of the game being good, but I'd also say I'm not a fan of them trying to do it by making this nice little world where everybody is accepted. Especially when established lore says that it's not a nice little world where everybody is accepted.

 

and it's not even referring to the social justice stuff. The game just ignores established Human racism against Elves for the most part when you're playing an Elven Inquisitor.

 

Or for the social justice stuff there's Iron Bull talking about how they have a word for transgender and accept people like Krem, which goes against what Sten tells us in Origins about how roles in the Qun are very strict and you do not deviate from them at all for any reason.

 

Hell, Baldur's Gate does transgender better in my opinion because of the belt of masculinity/femininity since it doesn't feel like it's wanting to beat me over the head with the idea but it's still there in the game.

[SmilesJA]

The only thing that felt out of place was the Qun and the Transgender arc. Otherwise I felt they did a good job with the social issues.

[StarcloudSWG]

Please. Dragon Age Inquisition was a step backwards in storytelling. Huge areas of open expanse that are filled with nothing. Purposeless fetch / kill quests. Generic epic fantasy storyline. The loss of the gothic horror atmosphere that filled DA:O and DA 2.

 

Dragon Age Inquisition was generic filler. The characters weren't that memorable. If anything, the lesbian elf girl whom you call a "bigot" was a nuanced, interesting character if you bothered to look past the surface of her abrasive attitude.

 

And hint: the world is more complex than your whitewashed, pollyanna-ish, green lawn and white picket fences "Oh we're all going to get along wonderfully" vision of reality. It always will be. Telling Bioware to shy away from that is to tell them "Stop making interesting stories and characters."

 

[serviteur de femto]

The problem with DA:I is that it spends so much time trying to show you how accepted everybody should be that it forgot its own lore.

 

If developers want to tackle social issues then it's fine as long as it doesn't get in the way of the game being good, but I'd also say I'm not a fan of them trying to do it by making this nice little world where everybody is accepted. Especially when established lore says that it's not a nice little world where everybody is accepted.

 

and it's not even referring to the social justice stuff. The game just ignores established Human racism against Elves for the most part when you're playing an Elven Inquisitor.

 

Or for the social justice stuff there's Iron Bull talking about how they have a word for transgender and accept people like Krem, which goes against what Sten tells us in Origins about how roles in the Qun are very strict and you do not deviate from them at all for any reason.

 

Hell, Baldur's Gate does transgender better in my opinion because of the belt of masculinity/femininity since it doesn't feel like it's wanting to beat me over the head with the idea but it's still there in the game.

 

Well in origins, the racism against elves was only seen at the begining of the city elf, after that I don't remember anyone being racist against my elf warden.

 

And that is justfied, because you are not going to be picky about the race of your savior when you desperatly need one.

 

That's the same for the elf inquisitor, nobody is going to reject help from an elf when the elf in question is the only one that can save you.

 

Nobody is picky when survival is not assured.

[FKA_Servo]

Or for the social justice stuff there's Iron Bull talking about how they have a word for transgender and accept people like Krem, which goes against what Sten tells us in Origins about how roles in the Qun are very strict and you do not deviate from them at all for any reason.

The only thing that felt out of place was the Qun and the Transgender arc. Otherwise I felt they did a good job with the social issues.

 

Without going into a huge tangent (not that this was a serious thread to start with), I would argue that it's neither lore breaking nor out of place. I think it's a development to the lore that adds verisimilitude.

 

For all its apparent uniformity, the Qun is interpreted differently (sometimes slightly, sometimes significantly) by different members with different perspectives. I think that this makes the religion far more fleshed out, and far more coherent and realistic. For a real world example - a conservative Opus Dei member and an Easter and Christmas college student might both be professed Catholics, but their perspective on their faith and the dogma and institution underlying that faith is probably very different. Likewise, Bull and Sten's (and Tallis') beliefs can coherently coexist for this same reason. Sten's opinion and definition of the qun hasn't changed because Bull subscribes to a different interpretation of the religion - it's just that their relative perceptions are colored by their singular experiences outside of (or deeply within) the qun.

[Kabraxal]

Without going into a huge tangent (not that this was a serious thread to start with), I would argue that it's neither lore breaking nor out of place. I think it's a development to the lore that adds verisimilitude.
 
For all its apparent uniformity, the Qun is interpreted differently (sometimes slightly, sometimes significantly) by different members with different perspectives. I think that this makes the religion far more fleshed out, and far more coherent and realistic. For a real world example - a conservative Opus Dei member and an Easter and Christmas college student might both be professed Catholics, but their perspective on their faith and the dogma and institution underlying that faith is probably very different. Likewise, Bull and Sten's (and Tallis') beliefs can coherently coexist for this same reason. Sten's opinion and definition of the qun hasn't changed because Bull subscribes to a different interpretation of the religion - it's just that their relative perceptions are colored by their singular experiences outside of (or deeply within) the qun.

Bioware handled teligion deftly from game one on DA. The Qun has those that adhere to it differently. And with Bull, it would be the eventual conflict as there would be superiors that balk at his less rigid perspective. The Chantry and elves are handled the same way... Probably the most realistic depiction of religion and faith in any game.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Or for the social justice stuff there's Iron Bull talking about how they have a word for transgender and accept people like Krem, which goes against what Sten tells us in Origins about how roles in the Qun are very strict and you do not deviate from them at all for any reason.

The only thing that felt out of place was the Qun and the Transgender arc. Otherwise I felt they did a good job with the social issues.

My favorite explanation is a fan headcanon. It's where the whole concept of Aqun-Athlok isn't actually in the Qun, but is evidence of the conflict in his mind between Hissrad and The Iron Bull, merging his two realities together. 

[FKA_Servo]

Bioware handled teligion deftly from game one on DA. The Qun has those that adhere to it differently. And with Bull, it would be the eventual conflict as there would be superiors that balk at his less rigid perspective. The Chantry and elves are handled the same way... Probably the most realistic depiction of religion and faith in any game.

 

I don't think there's any conflict with aqun athlok and rigidly defined roles, either. To clarify - I think Sten, as a conservative, traditional qunari, would adhere to definitions more starkly, with less ambiguity overall. IE for Krem - Krem is a soldier and a man. This is in line with Sten's perspective of the qun and it would not be cause for question (recall that a warden who considers herself a woman who fights is a thing that does not compute for Sten). Anything further to that would be irrelevant and remain unacknowledged. Bull, as someone who's lived and worked outside of that religious framework for a long time, has a more nuanced position, and accepts and defines this same idea in more detailed and nuanced terms.

Modifié par United Servo Academy Choir, 22 juin 2016 - 06:58 .

[Cyonan]

Well in origins, the racism against elves was only seen at the begining of the city elf, after that I don't remember anyone being racist against my elf warden.

 

And that is justfied, because you are not going to be picky about the race of your savior when you desperatly need one.

 

That's the same for the elf inquisitor, nobody is going to reject help from an elf when the elf in question is the only one that can save you.

 

Nobody is picky when survival is not assured.

 

but there's still none of it even before you're widely accepted as everybody's saviour in DA:I. I think it's more a case of the game was originally written with the idea that the PC would only be Human first, and then adapted for multiple race selection later after they delayed the game and had the time to get it in there. The whole game kind of plays like it's been written for a Human Inquisitor.

 

Without going into a huge tangent (not that this was a serious thread to start with), I would argue that it's neither lore breaking nor out of place. I think it's a development to the lore that adds verisimilitude.

 

For all its apparent uniformity, the Qun is interpreted differently (sometimes slightly, sometimes significantly) by different members with different perspectives. I think that this makes the religion far more fleshed out, and far more coherent and realistic. For a real world example - a conservative Opus Dei member and an Easter and Christmas college student might both be professed Catholics, but their perspective on their faith and the dogma and institution underlying that faith is probably very different. Likewise, Bull and Sten's (and Tallis') beliefs can coherently coexist for this same reason. Sten's opinion and definition of the qun hasn't changed because Bull subscribes to a different interpretation of the religion - it's just that their relative perceptions are colored by their singular experiences outside of (or deeply within) the qun.

 

The only thing is that the Qun isn't a religion, it's a way of life for an entire society.

 

I think it'd probably be better to say that Sten followed the "rules" like it was doctrine to be adhered to to the letter while Iron Bull is clearly more lenient about things. It'd also probably be better off saying that the Qun has changed a bit in the years since Sten, as we really haven't been given any perspective on that front which makes it an easy out for the writers to use and not be lore breaking.

 

Though Krem still feels like a walking PSA regardless =P

[dreamgazer]

Please. Dragon Age Inquisition was a step backwards in storytelling. Huge areas of open expanse that are filled with nothing. Purposeless fetch / kill quests. Generic epic fantasy storyline. The loss of the gothic horror atmosphere that filled DA:O and DA 2.

Aside from the gothic horror atmosphere, which is debatable, every single aspect you listed applies to Origins and 2.

Especially Origins when it comes to the storyline, and even more so when you consider Corypheus' motivations against those of the original game.

[Fixers0]

Anything's better than ME3.

[serviteur de femto]

but there's still none of it even before you're widely accepted as everybody's saviour in DA:I. I think it's more a case of the game was originally written with the idea that the PC would only be Human first, and then adapted for multiple race selection later after they delayed the game and had the time to get it in there. The whole game kind of plays like it's been written for a Human Inquisitor.

 

Not every human is racist,

 

and even if they are, like herborist elf in redcliff tells you, sometime people have prejudice against elf, they just won't tell it directly to your face and insult behind your back.

 

Besides if you go to halamshiral, noble don't like it if you are an elf, same for the nun in val royaux who does call to the prejudice against elf if your inquisitor is a lavelan.

 

Actually in DAI there is much more racism against an elven inquisitor than there was in DAO, even if it is not that brought up during the game.

[FlyingSquirrel]

I'm not saying it should be sacrificed I think cinematic should be at certain relevant plot points while actual combat and gameply and minor side quest should follow Dragon Age Inquisition. Peoples say that they were boring but if you read the codex entries it can be just as engaging as cinematic this also frees up room for diverse characters and romance.

 

I don't really understand why one should be seen as "freeing up room" for the other. Many of the open-world combat missions in DAI were only tangential to the main plot, and most of the character and romance scenes were either at the Inquisition's HQ (the town where they're stationed at the beginning and later Skyhold) or part of the main quest. In terms of keeping the programming load manageable, I'd have opted for reducing the overall number of sidequests but adding more detail to the ones that were kept.

[FKA_Servo]

The only thing is that the Qun isn't a religion, it's a way of life for an entire society.

 

I think it'd probably be better to say that Sten followed the "rules" like it was doctrine to be adhered to to the letter while Iron Bull is clearly more lenient about things. It'd also probably be better off saying that the Qun has changed a bit in the years since Sten, as we really haven't been given any perspective on that front which makes it an easy out for the writers to use and not be lore breaking.

 

Though Krem still feels like a walking PSA regardless =P

 

It's an all-encompassing way of life, true, but one that's centered on a religious framework, with a clear religious dimension.

 

I think the notion that the qun itself has undergone any sort of shake up or culture change in the ten years since we met Sten is a lot more unlikely than the idea that individual members harbor different ideas (that ultimately end up at the same place) about the culture and the dogma - especially when their life experience is as different as Sten and Bull clearly are.

 

And I don't know about that. It's unprecedented, but I don't think that makes it overly didactic.

[NightCreature81]

The only thing MEA should learn from DAI is how NOT to make a game.

[Kabraxal]

The only thing MEA should learn from DAI is how NOT to make a game.

So it shouldn't learn from one of the best games out there?

Funny things, opinions.... Means quite a few people hope ME:A is even half as good as Inquisition and its greatness.

And gping back to topic, specifically religion: I hope they pull from DA as a whole and really pull the various religions into a more realised form. I'd love to learn more about the beliefs of the Asari, Salarians, and even the various remaining human religous sects. Gotta believe there are quite a few that either were quite spiritual or religious or that found it stranded from their old homes. Probably why I appreciated Ash so much. Gave a more complete look into that universe since spirituality will never truly fade.

[CronoDragoon]

Sten and Bull are not at odds. Stens issue is that the Warden insists she's a woman despite being a warrior. The Qun is also only accepting of transgenderism if it follows suit: a man who is a soldier would not be allowed to transition to being a female, or would not be allowed to remain a soldier. Krem is a soldier who calls himself a man, so no conflict with the Qun.