47 réponses à ce sujet

[Tech God]

Okay, so, I've played through Trespasser's ending a few times. It's a lot of information to swallow. Anyway, what I can gather is that the 'elven gods' were mortal mages who enslaved their kin (and branded them with vallaslin) and were generally assholes. Solas then creates the veil, sealing them away. But, if they were mortal - how on earth is Solas, and for that matter Flemeth, still alive?

It's been a while since I've heard Flemeth's explanation about it all - but damn I am so confused now. I feel really dumb since I don't know the answer to this and I feel like it's stupidly obvious. Opinions and/or confirming would be awesome! 

[Evamitchelle]

They weren't mortal, or at least not due to old age. According to Solas, all elves used to be immortal before he created the Veil. Creating the Veil is actually what made them mortal. As for how Solas and Flemeth are still alive today: Solas was in uthenera all this time, and only woke up in 9:40. It's unclear whether he's still immortal today. Flemeth possesses the bodies of different women to prolong her own life; when one body becomes too old she just switches to a younger body (her daughters). Before that Mythal seemed to have survived as some kind of wisp/spirit. 

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Corypheus was also a "mortal mage". Avernus will be a couple hundred years old if you spared him and still going. Not as impressive, but still a pretty good run. I think the short answer is that magic in this world can prolong lifespans far beyond the norm if the mage is powerful and knowledgeable enough. The specifics of what sort of magic he's using and how is still unclear, though.

[thats1evildude]

Solas is also mortal. He can be killed.

To be clear, Solas defines gods as "extremely powerful," "cannot die of old age" and "cannot be killed." The Evanuris only met two of those qualifications.

[MisterJB]

They weren't gods but were immortal.

[Sah291]

My understanding is the ancient elves were "ageless" but not literally immortal....they could still die if killed in battle or something like that. But they didn't grow old and suffer diseases or die from natural causes. The elders "went to sleep" when they got weary. Their spirit entered the fade, while their body remained behind in the mortal realm. Some could apparently return to their bodies one day, if their bodies were persevered. This was called Uthenera. But I don't know if this was a practice that started before or after the Veil...

The Evanuris though were immortal in the true sense, since they became gods, it sounds like. Whether this was because they preexisted the Veil, or because they were deified or did something similar to what Corypheus did, I'm not sure.

[Zero]

My guess is that Solas is as immortal as Zathrian was in Origins. Solas said that ancient elves were immortals because the effects of their magic, much like the werewolf curse of the Brecilian forest was the "effect" of the spell cast by Zathrian. And according to his Dalish clan, Zathrian was his keeper for centuries (many believed he had rediscovered the secret of the elven immortality... and seeing Solas, maybe he did). My guess is that some spell Solas created is what is maintaining him alive all those centuries... What kind of spell? Dunno, but must be something much more powerful than the werewolf curse Zathrian created. 

[Fredward]

Slightly off topic question but is Solas an evanuri? He inhabits a weird place in the pantheon/history.

[Lulupab]

They were not omniscient or omnipotent but they were immortal. There are probably ways to kill them but none of them are conventional. So simple stabbing or magic won't kill them. Given they severely outnumbered Solas, imprisoning them was the best option at the time.

[Captain Wiseass]

"Evanuris" seems to be what Mythal et al. called themselves in their own time. Given that Solas was actively leading a rebellion against them, I doubt he was allowed into their little club. But over time, he became as much of a god figure as they were, so he's part of the pantheon in the present.

[Captain Wiseass]

They were not omniscient or omnipotent but they were immortal. There are probably ways to kill them but none of them are conventional. So simple stabbing or magic won't kill them. Given they severely outnumbered Solas, imprisoning them was the best option at the time.

Here's a nasty thought: Maybe the Evanuris (excepting Mythal) tied the life forces of their slaves to their own with the vallaslin, so if they were killed, their slaves would be also. So Solas couldn't kill them without also killing the people he was trying to save.

[thats1evildude]

Okay, so, I've played through Trespasser's ending a few times. It's a lot of information to swallow. Anyway, what I can gather is that the 'elven gods' were mortal mages who enslaved their kin (and branded them with vallaslin) and were generally assholes. Solas then creates the veil, sealing them away. But, if they were mortal - how on earth is Solas, and for that matter Flemeth, still alive?

To be clear: Solas entered Uthenara for centuries and then woke up in the modern age. Mythal was a disembodied spirit who possessed a human woman and it's implied she can jump bodies.

[Xerrai]

My guess is that Solas is as immortal as Zathrian was in Origins. Solas said that ancient elves were immortals because the effects of their magic, much like the werewolf curse of the Brecilian forest was the "effect" of the spell cast by Zathrian. And according to his Dalish clan, Zathrian was his keeper for centuries (many believed he had rediscovered the secret of the elven immortality... and seeing Solas, maybe he did). My guess is that some spell Solas created is what is maintaining him alive all those centuries... What kind of spell? Dunno, but must be something much more powerful than the werewolf curse Zathrian created.

I don't think it is so much a spell as much as it is a relationship with the fade.

[Ghost Gal]

When they say immortal, what they mean is "don't age," not "can't die."

 

They're like the unicorns from The Last Unicorn. "She was immortal, but she could be killed."

[Tech God]

Okay, this all makes sense. I knew I'd forgotten something obvious with the fact that elves were immortal. 

[Lunatica]

 Flemeth possesses the bodies of different women to prolong her own life; when one body becomes too old she just switches to a younger body (her daughters). Before that Mythal seemed to have survived as some kind of wisp/spirit. 

Is this really true?

I do  think that  is not inconceivable to think that she has other means to extend her life

[Aren]

Yavana does not need bodies to live longer if the daughter can do that i don't see why the mother should need to steal bodies that apparently cannot be stolen because there is a matter of will.

[Evamitchelle]

Is this really true?
I do think that is not inconceivable to think that she has other means to extend her life

That's what Moreigan believes after reading Flemeth's grimoire. She could be using other methods to prolong her life beyond that, but we don't really know what those are. Every centuries-old person we've met acquired their extended lifespan in a different way.

[Almostfaceman]

My guess is that Solas is as immortal as Zathrian was in Origins. Solas said that ancient elves were immortals because the effects of their magic, much like the werewolf curse of the Brecilian forest was the "effect" of the spell cast by Zathrian. And according to his Dalish clan, Zathrian was his keeper for centuries (many believed he had rediscovered the secret of the elven immortality... and seeing Solas, maybe he did). My guess is that some spell Solas created is what is maintaining him alive all those centuries... What kind of spell? Dunno, but must be something much more powerful than the werewolf curse Zathrian created. 

 

Incorrect. 

 

Inquisitor: The legends of elven immortality. Did they use magic to increase their life span? 

Solas: No. It t'was simply part of being elven. The subtle beauty of their magic was the effect, not the cause of their nature. Some spells took years to cast, the echos would linger for centuries, harmonizing with new magic in an unending symphony. It must have been beautiful. 

 

So no, spells are not involved in elven immortality and are not the cause of the immortality of Solas. 

 

[Aren]

That's what Moreigan believes after reading Flemeth's grimoire. 

Flemeth is able to build her body from scratch from her soul and a little piece of flesh of her own body(DAII revival).

Someone which has that capacity does not need to take bodies.

 

Morrigan  knew that she was able to dodge death after being killed,so why Morrigan thought that she needed her body if she was already eternal until DAI is beyond my  understanding....

[Donquijote and 59 others]

 

 

How much stupid the Inquisitor has to be in order to not be suspicious of such degree of knowledge?

[Andromelek]

Flemeth is able to build her body from scratch from her soul and a little piece of flesh of her own body(DAII revival).
Someone which has that capacity does not need to take bodies.
 
Morrigan  knew that she was able to dodge death after being killed,so why Morrigan thought that she needed her body if she was already eternal until DAI is beyond my  understanding....

Because she's a stupid that underestimates any risk but overestimates her mother.

"Bond to the will of an ancient God? No problem, Kieran would be fine if this goes out of my hands"

"Turne to be that the God is my mother? No! Leave me alone and leave my child alone!"

[Daerog]

How much stupid the Inquisitor has to be in order to not be suspicious of such degree of knowledge?

He's a well travelled mage that frequently walks the Fade. Now, his knowledge may be considered not 100% accurate due to the nature of the Fade, but he has heard more stories than any non-Fade walker.

His stories can be taken with as much seriousness as any Dalish story teller.

However, when it is known that he is the Dread Wolf, all the stories he told gained a lot of weight.

Except the blaming of mortals for demons bit. That is the case at times, but it wasn't due to ignorance of spirits or the Fade that made the Nightmare.

[Zero]

No. It t'was simply part of being elven. The subtle beauty of their magic was the effect, not the cause of their nature. Some spells took years to cast, the echos would linger for centuries, harmonizing with new magic in an unending symphony. It must have been beautiful. 

 

That line implies that magic has something to do with their immortality. Not the cause, but is related to it. Elves, after all, are more attuned to magic than humans or Qunari. 

[Tech God]

Wait a minute...I have a feeling it was mentioned somewhere, but were all elves mages before Solas made the veil, or no?