254 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Does that apply to followers, or just the Inquisitor?

Both.

 

 

I crafted a Shokra-taar for my Inquisitor, and the UI shows it to be several levels lower than my Inquisitor was at the time it was crafted. I note that the wiki shows this item as having an armor rating of 92-108-120-133, which I assume are different values based on level.

When I was crafting it, I did notice that it showed different armor values dependent upon the materials I used.

That's the level of the item itself, not the level requirements for equipping it. Crafted gear never has those. Also, the armor values (and other values, for other slots) are indeed dependent on the materials you use; they come in four tiers.

[Pasquale1234]

Both.

Interesting - though I'd guess that if I try to put a crafted heavy armor item on Viv, it'll still look like some low-cut Orlesian formalwear.
 

That's the level of the item itself, not the level requirements for equipping it.

I was surprised to see that a crafted item was assigned a level, period.

What I haven't figured out yet is whether the level of the crafted item is based on the schematic itself (and if it is, the schematic should list its level) or the level my Inquisitor was when it was crafted.

Since the item I crafted was several levels lower than my Inquisitor, being able to equip it is a given.

[Xilizhra]

Interesting - though I'd guess that if I try to put a crafted heavy armor item on Viv, it'll still look like some low-cut Orlesian formalwear.

I've only tried this with templar armor, which metamorphoses into different types of templar armor on different classes (but no Orlesian formalwear).

 

 

I was surprised to see that a crafted item was assigned a level, period.

What I haven't figured out yet is whether the level of the crafted item is based on the schematic itself (and if it is, the schematic should list its level) or the level my Inquisitor was when it was crafted.

Since the item I crafted was several levels lower than my Inquisitor, being able to equip it is a given.

It's based on both the schematic and the materials used to craft it. The Inquisitor's level has nothing to do with it.

[In Exile]

I think part of the problem is this obsession with individualized "iconic" looks for characters - because having an armor set look the same on a human female warrior Inquisitor as it does on Cassandra is verboten. So - Cassandra can wear only heavy armors, so they don't have to model additional unique looks in all of the light and medium armors for Cassandra.

It's infuriating - as is level locking EVERYTHING. That there are levels on crafted gear is... unbelievable. One of my biggest frustrations with a lot of RPGs is that by the time you get great gear you really like, you don't get to use it very long, because the game is almost over. I was hoping that crafting might get me past that, but nope. So I hold onto my best crafting materials until later, so I'll be able to craft higher level stuff I won't get to use very long.

Sigh.

I agree with you that separating appearance from stats has many benefits - but I don't see the ground for the objection that a character only wears a certain style of armor. Certainly characters have different fighting styles based on their background. The fact that in an RPG characters will wear common armour or have common abilities is more an abtraction.

Beyond that I have an issue with the backhanded shots at visually unique looks. I get that you prefer a uniform. But to suggest there's some intrinsic value to this beyond preference is silly.

[Pasquale1234]

I've only tried this with templar armor, which metamorphoses into different types of templar armor on different classes (but no Orlesian formalwear). 
 
It's based on both the schematic and the materials used to craft it. The Inquisitor's level has nothing to do with it.

Thanks - I appreciate the clarifications. DAI's crafting system is a little more complicated than I might have liked.
 

I agree with you that separating appearance from stats has many benefits - but I don't see the ground for the objection that a character only wears a certain style of armor. Certainly characters have different fighting styles based on their background. The fact that in an RPG characters will wear common armour or have common abilities is more an abtraction.

Beyond that I have an issue with the backhanded shots at visually unique looks. I get that you prefer a uniform. But to suggest there's some intrinsic value to this beyond preference is silly.

There's nothing backhanded about it. I've openly expressed my dislike of the insistence on maintaining individual "iconic" looks since inception. Having the same piece of armor look entirely different on Cassandra than it does on a human female Inquisitor does not enhance immersion - nor does the fact that the armor values on some of the light armors I've picked up are nearly identical to the armor values on some heavy armors.

In establishing individual looks for the characters, they effectively took away my ability to make my squad look like a cohesive team with matching armors. They prioritized their desires for character presentation over my player agency - and ensured that my team will always look like a ragtag band of mercenary / adventurers instead of a group representing a well-run organization.

Never knowing how a piece of gear will look on a character until you actually try it is a PITA, and increases the amount of time I spend at the crafting stations and doing inventory management.

But more than any of that, I'm resenting the fact that they spent so many zots on quite a lot of different looks for the followers, while my qunari Inquisitor is so very limited.

[Addictress]

Thanks - I appreciate the clarifications. DAI's crafting system is a little more complicated than I might have liked.


There's nothing backhanded about it. I've openly expressed my dislike of the insistence on maintaining individual "iconic" looks since inception. Having the same piece of armor look entirely different on Cassandra than it does on a human female Inquisitor does not enhance immersion - nor does the fact that the armor values on some of the light armors I've picked up are nearly identical to the armor values on some heavy armors.

In establishing individual looks for the characters, they effectively took away my ability to make my squad look like a cohesive team with matching armors. They prioritized their desires for character presentation over my player agency - and ensured that my team will always look like a ragtag band of mercenary / adventurers instead of a group representing a well-run organization.

Never knowing how a piece of gear will look on a character until you actually try it is a PITA, and increases the amount of time I spend at the crafting stations and doing inventory management.

But more than any of that, I'm resenting the fact that they spent so many zots on quite a lot of different looks for the followers, while my qunari Inquisitor is so very limited.

You have a point. In DA2, the unique styles worked because your companions were living independent lives of their own and weren't part of any team.

But in Inquisition, your companions were essentially hired by the Inquisition. It might've improved the story somewhat if they were officially inducted into the organization and armors looked similar on everyone.

[General TSAR]

What DAI did well:
Graphics, pretty landscapes (respect the artists)

I would agree with exception toward elf character models like Sera. Also the armors kept giving off a shine that was a bit annoying.

 

 

 

Music, but the music was rarely heard and didn't help create an immersive atmosphere

Oh yeah, especially the DLC music such as Solas theme.

 

But then again, Mass Effect always did have excellent music.

 

 

Solas, but his role and lore reveal were already planned a long time ago.

Solas' execution was brilliant, BioWare established an antagonist we can care about by making him a former buddy. Brilliant. 

 

Mass Effect hasn't yet established an antagonist like this, but then again Andromeda is a break away from the trilogy.

 

Also and I can't believe almost nobody has mentioned it but the starting menu is awesome:

 

Templars and Mages marching in lines toward the Temple of Sacred Ashes while keeping as far from each other as possible, excellent set up. Mass Effect's menus seems so lack luster in comparison.

[In Exile]

Thanks - I appreciate the clarifications. DAI's crafting system is a little more complicated than I might have liked.


There's nothing backhanded about it. I've openly expressed my dislike of the insistence on maintaining individual "iconic" looks since inception. Having the same piece of armor look entirely different on Cassandra than it does on a human female Inquisitor does not enhance immersion - nor does the fact that the armor values on some of the light armors I've picked up are nearly identical to the armor values on some heavy armors.

In establishing individual looks for the characters, they effectively took away my ability to make my squad look like a cohesive team with matching armors. They prioritized their desires for character presentation over my player agency - and ensured that my team will always look like a ragtag band of mercenary / adventurers instead of a group representing a well-run organization.

Never knowing how a piece of gear will look on a character until you actually try it is a PITA, and increases the amount of time I spend at the crafting stations and doing inventory management.

But more than any of that, I'm resenting the fact that they spent so many zots on quite a lot of different looks for the followers, while my qunari Inquisitor is so very limited.

I understand your frustration. To your last point, I ultimately don't share it because I really liked the default Inquisitor offering - I was really partial to that style (and only play mages, so it ended up giving me a lot of variety).

But I don't see DAOs approach as offering any better solution. For mages, for example, we had 2 1/2 options: the Circle robes, the Tevinter robes, or those weird Chasing robes. That's it. You could roll an arcane warrior and have access to armor, but armor was also limited, with essentially one mesh for heavy armour and one mesh for massive.

And the downside to all of this is that these are the options for every class. Morrigan, Wynne and the Warden are visually distinct only in virtue of the fact that Morrigan has a unique option. If you have warriors, it's basically impossible to set Sten, Alistair, the HOF and Oghren apart from the most superficial changes to the armour mesh, which is just a different texture.

Having entirely identical armour - something that's indicative of mass production - is also an issue, though obviously not in ME and we can handwave it away in DAO.

But ultimately DAO doesn't give us any greater visual diversity and instead strongly enforces uniformity.

And the player agency point is baseless. I want a unique look for my GW. Well, DAO tells me to go **** myself. I want my Cousland to assert a claim at the Landsmeet - DAO gives me another helping of go **** yourself. DAI doesn't give my any greater agency in the fact that the look is unique - it just coincidentally happens to align with my tastes. And that's my issue in all of this - all this hand-wringing is ultimately about visual preference.

And that's what I mean about backhanded. It's not that you're not explicit in your complaint: it's that your complaint is so dismissive of the idea that there's value in visual diversity that it's just a clear shot across the bow at anyone who feels otherwise. While I might not share your visual preference I feel as if I at least try to be respectful of it.

[Luigitornado]

I liked the character creator. I want a better one in MEA. More options too (specially hair styles).

 

I enjoyed exploring the areas in DAI. I liked how Bioware hid little objects here and there, like the giant cheese wheel. I don't necessarily want a giant cheese wheel in MDA (unless we're exploring a moon at one point!), but small details like that make the world a bit more of a wonder. I felt the same when you discovered bones of some big dead alien in ME.

 

Characters were okay. I think the voice acting was phenomenal, each character was fully realized in that regard.

 

But please...for the love of god keep out anything that resembles the mage-templar conflict.

[Addictress]

Mage-templar conflict was awesome and they dropped it in DA:I. Besides that one little squabble in front of Haven's chantry that Cullen breaks up, and the roaming MMO-like enemy spawns in the Hinterlands of apostates and Templars fighting, we had no demonstration of the mage-templar conflict that used the dramatic, epic events of DA2 as proper pretense.

[AlanC9]

In establishing individual looks for the characters, they effectively took away my ability to make my squad look like a cohesive team with matching armors. They prioritized their desires for character presentation over my player agency - and ensured that my team will always look like a ragtag band of mercenary / adventurers instead of a group representing a well-run organization.

But isn't that simply true? The companions really are a ragtag bunch of adventurers (not mercenaries since none of them are in it for pay). OK, Cassandra and Vivienne would probably play along, but Dorian in a uniform? Sera?

[AlanC9]

Having entirely identical armour - something that's indicative of mass production - is also an issue, though obviously not in ME and we can handwave it away in DAO.

I don't even think we'd need a handwave. Uniforms were a pretty late development. Thedas displays aspects of several different Earth historical eras simultaneously, and it's not obvious that uniforms are even a thing yet. To the extent we see uniforms in-game, it's probably just an artifact of the design tools; the designers are likely to have one only type of, e.g., Orlesian soldier spawn trigger on their palettes.

[Addictress]

Ancient Romans technically had uniform armor...sure they weren't identical to perfection as from modern assembly methods but ancient armies would usually have similar armors for everyone right?....

[Pasquale1234]

You have a point. In DA2, the unique styles worked because your companions were living independent lives of their own and weren't part of any team.

I still think it would have been nice if Isabela had managed to find some britches at some point in those 10 years. I'd have gladly given her some of the tattered pantaloons I collected.
 

But in Inquisition, your companions were essentially hired by the Inquisition. It might've improved the story somewhat if they were officially inducted into the organization and armors looked similar on everyone.

I would have very much liked that, especially if it included issuing their official Inquisition gear.
 

And the player agency point is baseless. I want a unique look for my GW. Well, DAO tells me to go **** myself. I want my Cousland to assert a claim at the Landsmeet - DAO gives me another helping of go **** yourself. DAI doesn't give my any greater agency in the fact that the look is unique - it just coincidentally happens to align with my tastes. And that's my issue in all of this - all this hand-wringing is ultimately about visual preference.

What you're describing is something I would call character agency, because those aren't things a player can do. Those are things a character could do if the game was designed to allow it.

And I think your accusations of hand-wringing and backhandedness are both silly and unproductive.

[Patriciachr34]

Ancient Romans technically had uniform armor...sure they weren't identical to perfection as from modern assembly methods but ancient armies would usually have similar armors for everyone right?....

Just because I was curious I did a Google search on Roman Armor and here is a picture of what I found.  Yes.  The armor was similar, but the armors for each type of roman soldier was different.  This difference was either a product of rank, division, or function.  I believe the wolf helmet covering indicated a special unit (like Navy Seals???), but someone who knows more about the types of Roman soldiers would need to provide that information.

 

 

[The Elder King]

Mage-templar conflict was awesome and they dropped it in DA:I. Besides that one little squabble in front of Haven's chantry that Cullen breaks up, and the roaming MMO-like enemy spawns in the Hinterlands of apostates and Templars fighting, we had no demonstration of the mage-templar conflict that used the dramatic, epic events of DA2 as proper pretense.

I wouldn't say it's either epic or awesome, expecially in how was portrayed in DA2, but they sideline the conflict, for better or worse.
Though in truth the conflict was just used as an excuse to move the plot towards the political situation in Inquisition. DA2 was planned with Inquisition and its plot in mind.

[Pasquale1234]

Ancient Romans technically had uniform armor...sure they weren't identical to perfection as from modern assembly methods but ancient armies would usually have similar armors for everyone right?....

Also, the Grey Wardens in DA2 had blue armors / uniforms.

The Kirkwall City Guards also had uniform armors, IIRC.

And I believe Templars have all been in templar specific gear every time we've seen groups of them.

So it's not unprecedented in DA.

[Paul E Dangerously]

Two things to note: you can have any class wear any armor type if it's crafted from the right materials (for instance, rogues and mages can wear heavy armor made of silverite), and, well, crafted weapons and armor don't have level restrictions? I mean, with the Golden Nug, you can get, say, Staff of Corruption schematics early on and have a staff more powerful than anything else you'll get in the game until the very end, that you can use right away.

 

That's pretty limited, though. One, silverite weapons and armor will become quickly obsolete due to the nature of the crafting system. Two, there is a "soft" level restriction, placed on gathering crafting items. Even if you do manage to get to a zone before you're supposed to get there, you'll get the absolute minimum per node until you reach the level you're "supposed" to be there. Meaning while you can actually pull it off, it's going to take absolutely forever to do it.

[vbibbi]

I still think it would have been nice if Isabela had managed to find some britches at some point in those 10 years. I'd have gladly given her some of the tattered pantaloons I collected.
 

 

How do you know all of the pantaloons we come across in our travels aren't the discarded presents Hawke has offered to Isabela?

 

Varric: Hey Hawke, doesn't this pair of pantaloons look familiar? Like a Feast Day gift you got a certain pirate?

Merrill: Oh no, that pair didn't have mouse holes along it and patches of chokedamp soaked in.

Isabela: Exactly! Our generous leader would never give such a tattered gift!

Merrill: ...though it does have the same big boat on the back end...

Isabela: Quiet, kitten!

[Pasquale1234]

How do you know all of the pantaloons we come across in our travels aren't the discarded presents Hawke has offered to Isabela?
 
Varric: Hey Hawke, doesn't this pair of pantaloons look familiar? Like a Feast Day gift you got a certain pirate?
Merrill: Oh no, that pair didn't have mouse holes along it and patches of chokedamp soaked in.
Isabela: Exactly! Our generous leader would never give such a tattered gift!
Merrill: ...though it does have the same big boat on the back end...
Isabela: Quiet, kitten!

[In Exile]

I still think it would have been nice if Isabela had managed to find some britches at some point in those 10 years. I'd have gladly given her some of the tattered pantaloons I collected.


I would have very much liked that, especially if it included issuing their official Inquisition gear.


What you're describing is something I would call character agency, because those aren't things a player can do. Those are things a character could do if the game was designed to allow it.

And I think your accusations of hand-wringing and backhandedness are both silly and unproductive.

I used character examples because you've previously mentioned that you consider it an RPG by its nature to have every choice an in character choice, including armour and weapon selection. I didn't mean to confuse, but I didn't think you'd draw a distincton.

I don't understand how Bioware is restricting player agency by way of its design decisions. I don't see the issue of whether you can have a uniform look - or a unique look - a question of agency. It's a question of design.

As to "accusations" - well, it's tough to walk onto a thread on a topic one is interested in discussing and seeing an echo chamber about the superiority of another's taste, all while treating it as self-evident that one way to go is somehow intrinsically better.

And I'll note you didn't comment on the substance of what I've said: that DAO doesn't actually provide more options even with its universal and modular armour choice. ME comes the closest and that's because it has 3 models of armour for humana that are just repainted versions.

[In Exile]

That's pretty limited, though. One, silverite weapons and armor will become quickly obsolete due to the nature of the crafting system. Two, there is a "soft" level restriction, placed on gathering crafting items. Even if you do manage to get to a zone before you're supposed to get there, you'll get the absolute minimum per node until you reach the level you're "supposed" to be there. Meaning while you can actually pull it off, it's going to take absolutely forever to do it.

That's not true. You don't need silverite arms and lengs as I recall. And Silverite is Tier III - there are very few (as I recall 2 or 3) types of material that are Tier 4 - dragonbone and whatever you can get in the DLCs.

And you don't need silverite weapons because you can't equip weapons outside of your class, like DA2.

[Pasquale1234]

As to "accusations" - well, it's tough to walk onto a thread on a topic one is interested in discussing and seeing an echo chamber about the superiority of another's taste, all while treating it as self-evident that one way to go is somehow intrinsically better.

I stated my preferences and some of the reasons behind them.

You're free to do likewise.
 

And I'll note you didn't comment on the substance of what I've said: that DAO doesn't actually provide more options even with its universal and modular armour choice.

I ignored it. It's not germane to anything I've discussed wrt DAI armors.

[In Exile]

I stated my preferences and some of the reasons behind them.

You're free to do likewise.

I ignored it. It's not germane to anything I've discussed wrt DAI armors.

You've done that by treating others views as inherently less worthy, but whatever. If you're not going to acknowledge it there's nothing more to be said on that point other than I find it rude.

As to the DAO point, it goes to the very heart of your position which is about, firstly, statistics, secondly, player agency in terms of control over visual appearance and, thirdly, the number of options open to you as a player in terms of your own characters visual appearance.

But if you're just going to ignore points you're unhappy with there isn't much value in us pretending to have a discussion. I'm just shocked because despite our general disagreement on gameplay and RPGs, I found you to be a thoughtful and respectful poster who I enjoyed debating with on this forum. Clearly I was mistaken so that's that.

[AlanC9]

Ancient Romans technically had uniform armor...sure they weren't identical to perfection as from modern assembly methods but ancient armies would usually have similar armors for everyone right?....

This isn't generally true for the period. Rome was unusual in having centralized and (relatively) identical armor production. I believe some periods in China had similar procurement structures.

Uniforms weren't really necessary in the period anyway, and didn't evolve from any kind of battlefield necessity.