11 Antworten in diesem Thema

[Luminus]

I wanted to make an Assassin in vanilla NwN2 (no Kaedrin's) but I am not sure which one is the best and why.
This isn't for the OC or MotB, but a general build for a couple of PWs and maybe modules.

I looked up at the builds in NwN2DB and I did notice that most Assassin builds are ranged. 
The others go a rather simple, Rogue/Assassin/Invisible blade.

To provide a few more details, I'd rather not dip in Monk (Neutral/Chaotic Evil).
Though, I'm not opposed to throwing Bard in there. (Spells & Inspirations)

So, which one do you think is best for the most damage? 
Is a ranged Assassin (Rogue/Bard or Wizard/Arcane Archer/Assassin) superior in every way?
Does the Invisible Blade have other pluses (higher AC, more attacks etc)?

It should be noticed, skills are important and Kukris or min/maxing aren't a necessity.

[Arkalezth]

Assassin archers are popular because Death Attack damage is applied to all the arrows when using Manyshot (a bug, IIRC). I'm not sure there's such a thing as "the ultimate assassin", but it works with any combat style just fine, so just go with whatever you find more enjoyable.

 

You mentioned modules. You won't reach the necessary level to be a full-fledged assassin in many of them, so you may not want to use the same build template as in a level 30 PW. A shadowdancer level, for instance, is redundant in the long run on an assassin build, but it might a good investment if you don't want to wait until level 13 to get HIPS (or if you never reach that level at all).

[BoardGuest808888l]

I prefer a ranged Assassin myself, especially for community modules. To be fair, official campaigns are easy for your characters because of the incredible amount of powerful magical items. Without such items, let's just say that Assassins are not really built to stand toe-to-toe with his/her target for a prolonged period.

The one that can do most damage and most everything tend to be Wizard/Rogue/Assassin or a simple Wizard/Assassin. Not only this gives you tons of skills, but INT sinergyzes well for Wizard and Assassin save DC. Depending on what module you're playing, anything that have Wizard levels tend to be superior than the ones that doesn't, damage or else.

Invisible Blade, on the other hand, seems like an inefficient way to be Assassin. Not only it requires tons of feats to pull it (at least 4, 5 with Weapon Finesse), but the way he/she fights is also counter-intuitive for Assassin. It is better suited for fighters who want to be sneak attackers. Otherwise, you only got there after you gain too high levels.

[Luminus]

Something I didn't consider and after some testing realized, is how convenient Feint is for solo Rogues/Assassins when you grind in PWs.

While the ranged Assassin is probably stronger and safer, the conditions become tedious, since you need to position yourself each time and make sure you're within range for the Sneak Attack damage but also being exposed to attacks since Hide in Plain Sight has a cooldown, while Feint doesn't.

You also don't really need Feint in a party. Though, it so happened that I was in a party of rogue/assassins on a PW and Sneak Attacks came from every direction since a couple of us had Feint. Not necessary but convenient.

Thank you both for your answers. I was unsure which was best but for some reason, I forgot that Feint existed (not playing sneakers too often).
And on a PW, where you cannot pause to position yourself better or where a party isn't guaranteed, a melee Assassin with Feint wins, since you get Sneak Attacks all the time.

[BoardGuest808888l]

If you have enough skill points for Bluff, Feint can be fun to use. But it is more useful for Rogue hybrids than Assassin. Once your Death Attack hit, your target will be paralyzed anyway. Assassin's invisibility and Hide in Plain Sight is a good combo, you can break invisibility and enter the other mode.

[Arkalezth]

since you need to position yourself each time and make sure you're within range for the Sneak Attack damage

Irrelevant for drow, but if you happen to be using a race with low-light vision, the aura coincides with sneak attack's max range. It's an easy way to know if yoou're close enough.

For melee assassins, swashbuckler, invisible blade and duelist are fine due to the INT synergy. Blackguard is also decent if you're going for a high paralyse DC, as Aura of Despair will basically raise it by 2. Then you have other classic multiclasses like rogue, fighter or ranger.

[Luminus]

Irrelevant for drow, but if you happen to be using a race with low-light vision, the aura coincides with sneak attack's max range. It's an easy way to know if yoou're close enough.

For melee assassins, swashbuckler, invisible blade and duelist are fine due to the INT synergy. Blackguard is also decent if you're going for a high paralyse DC, as Aura of Despair will basically raise it by 2. Then you have other classic multiclasses like rogue, fighter or ranger.

Unfortunately, Rogue and Swashbuckler will give an XP penalty to a Drow. Sure, irrelevant in the vacuum of powerbuilding but it's unecessary trouble on PWs.
Duelist's INT to AC doesn't stack with IB's version, but it would be nice if it could. And Blackguard's requirement are a waste of two feats for -2 to saves, though starting with Ranger as the base would make it a nice dip.

I was considering dipping into Wizard for a single level, as it could free up a whole skill (UMD) to use magical items and scrolls, giving you a pet scout for fun and RP (spider?) having free Protection from Evil buffs.

But with a simple Rogue 16/Assassin 9/Invisible Blade 5 you could get one extra special Rogue feat, which could be used for Crippling Strike, Defensive Roll and Improved Evasion.
Defensive Roll mainly for the Epic Dodge feat but I am not sure how worth is it.
Any opinions on the latter?

[Arkalezth]

Unfortunately, Rogue and Swashbuckler will give an XP penalty to a Drow.

Yeah, I didn't have drow in mind when I wrote that. Also, I wasn't suggesting to take both IB and duelist on the same character. BG's requirements may or may not be worth the trouble, depending on the build and your goals.

Rogue 16/Assassin 9/Invisible Blade 5

That's good. And yes, with 16 rogue and likely 25+ DEX, you should take Epic Dodge (DR and IE are meh, but ED is good). Crippling Strike is pretty much mandatory as well, for Epic Precision.

[BoardGuest808888l]

If you're planning a 30 level character, Crippling Strike is much more important as beyond level 15 you'll likely find something immune to sneak attack, which means Epic Precision is needed.

About Epic Dodge, I'm not sure, does it work the same as in NWN ?

A wizard dip is a good idea as it doesn't give xp penalty fror drow.

[Luminus]

The description on Epic Dodge in NwN2Wiki does say that you ignore the first attack each round from an attacker, not sure of the details.

I guess it adds up as you usually ignore the attack at the highest Attack Bonus each round, or something like that. 
But never took it (not playing Rogues or DEX-based chars in general). But from what I read, it seems like a must have on powerbuilds or forums etc.

[BoardGuest808888l]

I remember having that feat for NWN HotU. Worked great against lots of NPCs. If you managed to get to level 40, overshadowed by Self-Concealment tho.

In NWN 2, as long as you have access to Ethereal Jaunt, Mirror Image and Greater Invisibility, you won't need it that badly (especially Mirror Image). Unless you're going for PvP vs someone who can spam Mordenkainen's Disjunction.

[Thorsson64]

Epic Dodge = You ignore the first attack that hits. That normally would mean the first attack, but not always. It's one of the best Feats in the game.