194 réponses à ce sujet

[Gamesaredead]

Day Night and weather cycle was really nice in Witcher 3. That said, it was one planet, Witcher 3 looks WAY worse graphically than ME 2 with texmods even on my 1440p monitor with a 700 dollar GPU driving it (granted this price is about to drop with the new GPU's) but a aftermarket 980Ti is still no slouch even then.

 

Witcher 3 also does not have to have a fast ground vehicle.

 

I would much rather have a game that looks like this on every planet, than Witcher 3. In Witcher 3 you can spend DAYS in one zone that is not really all that big with Roach outside, while in Mass Effect you are planet hopping and on a ship or in a base/huge indoor area with artificial lighting. The weather and day/night cycle help the game to feel alive. People seem to forget that Witcher 3 BARELY ran at 30 FPS on consoles and it could not even keep that target there. Now add in Mako flying around a map and and tons of planets. It is not happening. Something has to give. You are not accusing Bioware of being lazy (even though you are implying that). You are asking them for an impossibility. I do not even know if Xbox Scorpio would be enough. That GPU is gonna be around RX 480 tier (200 dollar GPU).

 

[dreamgazer]

The point is that it adds immersion and a sense of time/progression.

You can defend Bioware and argue all you want, but Bioware can do it if they want, they just rather be simple.

That's actually an incredibly valid reason for not dealing with countless time cycles. I'd much rather they concentrate on filling the planets with plenty of obstacles and things to do than a mild shift in the brightness and colors of the sky.

How does it create a sense of actual time/progression if every planet has a different clock? Does Andromeda as a game need a clock?
 

People keep talking about different planet types as if that is a hurddle. Well if thats the case, they can just different clocks to various planets. On one planet it could be day for about 15 min real world time while on another it could be 30 min real world time.

I am sure the tech is there, but Bioware as I said id allergic to day/night cycles.

I ask again: how would it improve the game? Why does it make sense to include day/night cycles in a game with quick exploration, quicker firefights, and wildly variable cycles depending on the location across the galaxy?

"Adds immersion" really isn't a good enough answer. The way you'e describing it, it sounds like a gimmicky waste of resources.

Why would they bother dealing with, likely, hundreds of day/night cycles for such a minuscule observable difference?

[llandwynwyn]

For some reason, Bioware seems to be allergic to putting day/night cycles in their games in a time where nearly all of the other AAA open world games supports day/night cycles.

So will Bioware be behind the curve yet again with MEA when it comes to day/night cycles?

 

Having a static world is awful to exploration. I'll be definitely be disappointed if that's the case, again. They are already giving themselves a easy time by not having many hubs, since we're ~exploring a new unknown world.

[SofaJockey]

You can defend Bioware and argue all you want, but Bioware can do it if they want, they just rather be simple. ...
I am sure the tech is there, but Bioware as I said id allergic to day/night cycles.

 

Simply restating your position doesn't suggest that you have paid very much attention to what people have said.

 

If you make claims about what BioWare 'believes' or 'wants to do', without any factual basis other than your own fantasies,

then that will erode the credibility of your otherwise reasonable points.

 

We can speculate on BioWare's motivation based on their track record, but it remains speculation.

[Gamesaredead]

How many patches did it take for Witcher 3 to even stay at 30 FPS on consoles anyways? Can it even hit that FPS now in the Swamp area with the Witches? Not to mention the game can look worse than Witcher 2 at times. Witcher 2 was a more linear game like all the Mass Effects. Witcher 3 was not. Witcher 2 was still really good.

 

When you have a linear game? You might want a certain day/night condition in a scene. You can be much more aggressive graphically with a linear game. You can have much more varied environments with a linear game.

 

There are pluses and minuses to open world vs a more linear approach. An open world game that has to have many planets and a day night cycle would be in development hell, or look like an ancient game graphically. No Man's Sky looks like a game I  played 4 video cards ago. People want the impossible. They might want to go look at how much money Overwatch made in May and just be glad people make RPG's anymore.

 

Oh and Witcher 3 is probably in my top 2-3 games of all time. Still doesn't mean I think Mass Effect should be the same type of game. I don't even like open world usually. Witcher 3 was the first one I REALLY liked. Skyrim looked like GARBAGE until PC modders went crazy with it, with GPU's 2-3 architectures down the line from when the game was made. 

 

I don't know what supercomputers the people in this thread think they have (especially if they are on consoles), but if you want this game to still look anywhere modern and have all these planets, and good looking faces and armor and play well and have some open world elements where you can drive around a bit? You are not getting anything but baked in lighting and weather.

[The Hierophant]

I doubt there'll be day/night cycles in MEA because the team will have to take into account each planet's unique rotation, and orbital period. Though it would be nice to see other visual effects like random weather, and more interactivity with environment.

[nfi42]

I don't know what supercomputers the people in this thread think they have (especially if they are on consoles), but if you want this game to still look anywhere modern and have all these planets, and good looking faces and armor and play well and have some open world elements where you can drive around a bit? You are not getting anything but baked in lighting and weather.

 

Developing for pc means offering a range of graphics options from low to ultra, and as always optimizing for the current consoles gives around the mid level with a spattering of high graphics options.  Full physics based lighting is still a monumental fps hit even on the loftiest PC hardware, but it's not needed to produce good results. If Bioware are developing with current PC and console performance in mind,  I really doubt that a full blown day/nigh weather cycle will impact the console standard 30 fps.

 

I think CDPR's problem with TW3 on console is that they initially developed expecting higher specs on consoles.

[Monk]

For some reason, Bioware seems to be allergic to putting day/night cycles in their games in a time where nearly all of the other AAA open world games supports day/night cycles.

So will Bioware be behind the curve yet again with MEA when it comes to day/night cycles?

 

I don't know. We complain about the CC being too dark and we want day/light cycles? Hahah. It's a "realism" trend. Considering that BioWare listens to us, though arguably too much, i think demanding this "latest" craze is waaaaay down in the list of priorities. And this really is old hat too because for nearly a decade WoW has supported this cycle. I think for today's games it's just more of "can we support this bell or whistle". And at this point, i'd rather see the complaint about hair fixed before wasting CPU cycles on keeping an internal timer just to move the damn light source.

[Gileadan]

I doubt there'll be day/night cycles in MEA because the team will have to take into account each planet's unique rotation, and orbital period. Though it would be nice to see other visual effects like random weather, and more interactivity with environment.

Some efficient coding and variable settings should actually take care of that quite handily - only a rookie would hardcode such parameters. 

 

Then again, this is the company that couldn't fix the banter bug, i.e. the playing of audio files after a timer expired.

[Majestic Jazz]

Having a static world is awful to exploration. I'll be definitely be disappointed if that's the case, again. They are already giving themselves a easy time by not having many hubs, since we're ~exploring a new unknown world.

Especially a ststic world in 2017 which this game will be released in.

People keep offering excuses like the fact that we will be in many world vs jusy one. I find that lazy as I am sure the tech is there, but again, Bioware dares not to do that.

But hey, there will be gay romances! At least Bioware is ahead of the curve in other areas because they sure arent technologically....

[Elhanan]

Sorry, but Skyrim looks amazing whether it is modded or not, and I have only a mid-range GPU.

That said, the day/ night cycles led to their own annoyances in Skyrim:

* Most shops closed during the night are problematic for nocturnal adventurers.

* Default cycle was too fast/ slow for many; had to be adj via console or mods.

* Cycles could possibly restrict access to certain quests.

And as others have mentioned here, Skyrim is only one country on one world. Whatever the devs choose to use is OK by me.

[Majestic Jazz]

People keep using this "multiple worlds" excuse to defend Bioware.

Well,

What is the excuse for Jade Empire, DAO, DA2 (Had a manual day/night cycle), and DAI to not have day/night cycles. We werent on multiple worlds for those games and open world/zone games released during their time had day/night cycles. So again, what is the excuse for these games?

Just admit it, Bioware is allergic to the idea. DAI was supposed to have them but they got cold feet and took it out.

Something tells me that even if MEA had 3 planets to explore there would still not be a Day/Night cycle. It is just in their nature.

[Gamesaredead]

Especially a ststic world in 2017 which this game will be released in.

People keep offering excuses like the fact that we will be in many world vs jusy one. I find that lazy as I am sure the tech is there, but again, Bioware dares not to do that.

But hey, there will be gay romances! At least Bioware is ahead of the curve in other areas because they sure arent technologically....

 

Here are the stats of these consoles on GPU and no I am not making fun of consoles and I will talk about that. Main thing you should be looking at here is the Rated Floating point and you can compare that against AMD GPU's on PC. Not Nvidia since they are not the same architecture so the measurements would not be apples to apples. 

 

As far as CPU they are 1.6 and 1.7 GHZ AMD CPU's. With CPU's 3 times stronger and GPU's more than 4 times stronger in 2013 (R9 290/x) we cannot do what you are asking for WELL on a PC exclusive like Star Citizen, if you want planets and day night cycles that are not just baked in. Something like a 5 TFLOP GPU is what you would need for a decent experience on Star Citizen (Xbox and PS4 are 1.3 and 1.8). Also remember what I said about development hell? Star Citizen is in development hell. 

 

Star Citizen was CROWD funded, which is the only reason they can be this ambitious. They are not putting their own money up. You cannot just make a game for super high end PC's and just because PC's can be high end in no way means most PC Gamer's have them (see any Steam hardware Survey). Oculus Rift said something like 9 million people in the world even have PC's with a R9 290/GTX 970 or up GPU. Many PC Gamer's cannot even match the PS4's GPU.

 

The only way Xbox Scorpio will even be able to run Star Citizen is if the CPU in it is new AMD architecture (Zen). I think PS4 Neo is just the same CPU on a OC at 2.1 or something to not bottleneck the 4.1ish TFLOP GPU in it on "console" like games.

 

Get it now? You want a game made for equipment people do not have. You want EA/Bioware to create this game with barely any buyer base and to ignore what people do have and put their own money at risk to do so and not other peoples (crowdfunded).  

[nfi42]

Sorry, but Skyrim looks amazing whether it is modded or not, and I have only a mid-range GPU.

That said, the day/ night cycles led to their own annoyances in Skyrim:

* Most shops closed during the night are problematic for nocturnal adventurers.

* Default cycle was too fast/ slow for many; had to be adj via console or mods.

* Cycles could possibly restrict access to certain quests.

And as others have mentioned here, Skyrim is only one country on one world. Whatever the devs choose to use is OK by me.

 

Skyrim looked OK on PC at release. Even the official ultra texture pack didn't help much.   I dread to think what it looks like on console.

 

Agree with your other points.  They could be mitigated by a fast forward mechanism and an option in menu to adjust length of day.

 

How big do you think the world will be?  Planets I suspect will be separate zones,  beyond that,  streaming architecture works fine in modern games,  though with popin an lod issues, especially on console.

[AshkPunk]

It'll be awesome to see this, specially for the quests, like you have to go on a planet at night to complete it.

[dreamgazer]

People keep offering excuses like the fact that we will be in many world vs jusy one. I find that lazy as I am sure the tech is there, but again, Bioware dares not to do that.

Benefit-cost ratio and a lack of importance in the game/environment design are much stronger explanations than it being lazy.

Saying it's "lazy" is lazy.

[Gamesaredead]

I doubt there'll be day/night cycles in MEA because the team will have to take into account each planet's unique rotation, and orbital period. Though it would be nice to see other visual effects like random weather, and more interactivity with environment.

 

If it has them they will just be baked in and not a real lighting deal. Oh and when you do that in a game like WoW? People still complain lol. Prob 10 threads made in the last year over at the Blizzard forums crying about night not being dark enough etc.

 

Guess what they complained about before they made dark a lot brighter. That it was too dark. 

[AlanC9]

What is the excuse for Jade Empire, DAO, DA2 (Had a manual day/night cycle), and DAI to not have day/night cycles. We werent on multiple worlds for those games and open world/zone games released during their time had day/night cycles. So again, what is the excuse for these games?

They didn't think that the feature added any value? Redcliffe, Crestwood, and Kirkwall worked better without a clock than with one. Even if you get a little value from the clock in other zones, you could still score this as making the feature either not worth the cost or even counterproductive.

[RoboticWater]

But hey, there will be gay romances! At least Bioware is ahead of the curve in other areas because they sure arent technologically....

Yes, I'm quite glad that BioWare are ahead of the curve when it comes to social issues that some people may genuinely care about rather than a graphical gimmick that some dude has arbitrarily decided should be a standard feature for "any truly modern game."

 

I'll take artistic vision over feature creep any day.
 

Sorry, but Skyrim looks amazing whether it is modded or not, and I have only a mid-range GPU.

That's an entirely subjective view that I'm certain is not shared by many others. The game looked good for an open world game when it was released in 2011. It hasn't aged well.

[Majestic Jazz]

Benefit-cost ratio and a lack of importance in the game/environment design are much stronger explanations than it being lazy.

Saying it's "lazy" is lazy.

I will say it again:

What is the excuse for Jade Empire, DAO, DA2 (Had a manual day/night cycle), and DAI to not have day/night cycles. We werent on multiple worlds for those games and open world/zone games released during their time had day/night cycles. So again, what is the excuse for these games?

Just admit it, Bioware is allergic to the idea. DAI was supposed to have them but they got cold feet and took it out.

Something tells me that even if MEA had 3 planets to explore there would still not be a Day/Night cycle. It is just in their nature.

[nfi42]

Here are the stats of these consoles on GPU and no I am not making fun of consoles and I will talk about that. Main thing you should be looking at here is the Rated Floating point and you can compare that against AMD GPU's on PC. Not Nvidia since they are not the same architecture so the measurements would not be apples to apples. 

 

As far as CPU they are 1.6 and 1.7 GHZ AMD CPU's. With CPU's 3 times stronger and GPU's more than 4 times stronger in 2013 (R9 290/x) we cannot do what you are asking for WELL on a PC exclusive like Star Citizen, if you want planets and day night cycles that are not just baked in. Something like a 5 TFLOP GPU is what you would need for a decent experience on Star Citizen (Xbox and PS4 are 1.3 and 1.8). Also remember what I said about development hell? Star Citizen is in development hell. 

 

Star Citizen was CROWD funded, which is the only reason they can be this ambitious. They are not putting their own money up. You cannot just make a game for super high end PC's and just because PC's can be high end in no way means most PC Gamer's have them (see any Steam hardware Survey). Oculus Rift said something like 9 million people in the world even have PC's with a R9 290/GTX 970 or up GPU. Many PC Gamer's cannot even match the PS4's GPU.

 

The only way Xbox Scorpio will even be able to run Star Citizen is if the CPU in it is new AMD architecture (Zen). I think PS4 Neo is just the same CPU on a OC at 2.1 or something to not bottleneck the 4.1ish TFLOP GPU in it on "console" like games.

 

Get it now? You want a game made for equipment people do not have. You want EA/Bioware to create this game with barely any buyer base and to ignore what people do have and put their own money at risk to do so and not other peoples (crowdfunded).  

 

As before I disagree.

 

Planets will be different zones.  The real issue how much playable area is on each planet/habitat and how much hard disk space this  takes.  Quite frankly, I'm expecting not much. 

 

Weather and day/night cycles is a one time hit and currently works on console albeit with lod and popin.

 

in any case, my pov is If it's not in the game, I'll play it if the public like it (not news site reviews), and if there is a Day/Night and weather,  I'll enjoy replaying playing more.

[RoboticWater]

What is the excuse for Jade Empire, DAO, DA2 (Had a manual day/night cycle), and DAI to not have day/night cycles. We werent on multiple worlds for those games and open world/zone games released during their time had day/night cycles. So again, what is the excuse for these games?

The same "excuses" BioWare have now: it's hard, takes time, puts extra strain on the graphics, can harm the visual tone, and isn't necessary. BioWare just have a better "excuse" because day/night cycles in ME:A would be even harder.

 

Just admit it, Bioware is allergic to the idea. DAI was supposed to have them but they got cold feet and took it out.

What does allergic even mean? Is that supposed be a legitimate defense? BioWare are also apparently allergic to Fighting game mechanics. Does that matter?

 

Yeah, BioWare don't want to add a day/night cycle. They're allowed to do that.

[Gamesaredead]

I will say it again:

What is the excuse for Jade Empire, DAO, DA2 (Had a manual day/night cycle), and DAI to not have day/night cycles. We werent on multiple worlds for those games and open world/zone games released during their time had day/night cycles. So again, what is the excuse for these games?

Just admit it, Bioware is allergic to the idea. DAI was supposed to have them but they got cold feet and took it out.

Something tells me that even if MEA had 3 planets to explore there would still not be a Day/Night cycle. It is just in their nature.

 

Difference is multiple worlds that all have to have a different look, with a different light source, suns, moons. This is not just one sun and one moon. They have to be creative with making @$%# up to have it look exotic or "alien".

 

To do it in real time is impossible. Baked in would still be a lot of work. We already know they have night missions from the "leak" with the pollen stink bomb or whatever and the ship docking area planet.

 

This is also a shooter. Certain enemies that are dark might be really hard to see on a darker planet. You have to juggle a lot of things here. Gameplay, aesthetics, time investment. 

[Wulfram]

People keep using this "multiple worlds" excuse to defend Bioware.

Well,

What is the excuse for Jade Empire, DAO, DA2 (Had a manual day/night cycle), and DAI to not have day/night cycles. We werent on multiple worlds for those games and open world/zone games released during their time had day/night cycles. So again, what is the excuse for these games?

Just admit it, Bioware is allergic to the idea. DAI was supposed to have them but they got cold feet and took it out.

Something tells me that even if MEA had 3 planets to explore there would still not be a Day/Night cycle. It is just in their nature.

What would a day/night cycle even do in those games? You don't spend enough time in one place for this sort of thing to ever matter.

Unless of course you massively speed up time, but how is that immersive?

[dreamgazer]

I will say it again:

What is the excuse for Jade Empire, DAO, DA2 (Had a manual day/night cycle), and DAI to not have day/night cycles. We werent on multiple worlds for those games and open world/zone games released during their time had day/night cycles. So again, what is the excuse for these games?

We're not talking about those single-world games. Why do they factor into the conversation?

Is this about Andromeda or BioWare?
 

Just admit it, Bioware is allergic to the idea. DAI was supposed to have them but they got cold feet and took it out.

Whether Inquisition had it or not doesn't really matter, does it?

As has been repeatedly spelled out for you, there are legitimate reasons for them to not prioritize this in Andromeda.