194 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

I will say it again:
What is the excuse for Jade Empire, DAO, DA2 (Had a manual day/night cycle), and DAI to not have day/night cycles. We werent on multiple worlds for those games and open world/zone games released during their time had day/night cycles. So again, what is the excuse for these games?
Just admit it, Bioware is allergic to the idea. DAI was supposed to have them but they got cold feet and took it out.
Something tells me that even if MEA had 3 planets to explore there would still not be a Day/Night cycle. It is just in their nature.

What does "allergic to the idea" even mean? Not agreeing with you that the feature is worth doing? True, but trivial.

[Gamesaredead]

What does "allergic to the idea" even mean? Not agreeing with you that the feature is worth doing? True, but trivial.

 

He might be a SWTOR player and there was a lot of complaints about it there, because WoW had it (but like I said people complain about that games implementation). 

 

He would still be wrong as far as "allergic". More to do with the Hero Engine probably. That is not EA's engine. They bought a licence and then modified it as best they could.

 

A MMO is not a shooter. Less problematic there. Not like you have to aim and shoot things in the dark. Tab targeting etc.

[In Exile]

For some reason, Bioware seems to be allergic to putting day/night cycles in their games in a time where nearly all of the other AAA open world games supports day/night cycles.

So will Bioware be behind the curve yet again with MEA when it comes to day/night cycles?

Day/night cycles are incredibly stupid and Bioware is doing us all a favour by not having them. The cycles have all sorts of insane scale issues - even games that have brilliant and well realized world's suffer from this like TW3, where you see such care about creating a world to scale unlike Skyrim then having a day pass in like a real time hour. It's just stupid.

[In Exile]

It would make the game better, help with immersion. FWH is including randomly generated levels with randomly generated effects and weather in SW2. An indie team in Poland with a fraction of EA's resources. I see no reason they couldn't do this with ME:A. Of course, it wouldn't be the first time they're showed up by an indie team in Poland.

How does it help with immersion when I can literally see it going from day to night in the time it takes the sun to move an inch in the sky in a game that pretends it has actual scale like IRL? It's the total opposite - these cycles are the worst anti-immersion offender.

[slimgrin]

But months passing in a game where no weather or lighting ever changes makes more sense?

[Elhanan]

Skyrim looked OK on PC at release. Even the official ultra texture pack didn't help much.   I dread to think what it looks like on console.
 
Agree with your other points.  They could be mitigated by a fast forward mechanism and an option in menu to adjust length of day.
 
How big do you think the world will be?  Planets I suspect will be separate zones,  beyond that,  streaming architecture works fine in modern games,  though with popin an lod issues, especially on console.

The only thing I had to compare with at the time was the E3 demo, which was done on XBOX, and both were great. Then after 700+ hrs of Vanilla, I started modding and it became better. But the base game still looked fantastic, and did not require a top end GPU to see it.

I will not whine either way, or at least do not believe so currently; am willing to go with the Dev's decision on the matter. But the idea that Bioware has not done so in the past, or are loathe to do so again is fiction; the facts illustrate otherwise.

[In Exile]

But months passing in a game where no weather or lighting ever changes makes more sense?

No? I'm not sure why one dumb feature would justify including a second dumb feature?

We aren't talking about how a game should convey the passage of time - we're talking about cycles.

I think games should evolve and show the passage of time - I just think the usual feature (an accelerated day night cycle) is many times worse than the alternative (set time per zone).

[KotorEffect3]

Not having a day/night cycle has not affected my enjoyment of other bioware games.  They aren't open world and don't play like open world games so I do not see a day/night cycle being important to them.  In fact they could impact some cutscenes in a negative way.  If they do a day/night cycle I prefer it to be DA 2 style where it was manually up to the player and we didn't have to wait around until the cycle changes.

[Elhanan]

...
 
That's an entirely subjective view that I'm certain is not shared by many others. The game looked good for an open world game when it was released in 2011. It hasn't aged well.

Whether it shared or not, the game was played in 2011, and is still played today. And both sales and time played seems to indicate that many do hold the same opinion.

But this is about day/ night cycles, and there are +/- for both; am fine with past choices, and should be good with whatever is chosen for ME:A. I simply dropped in to clarify that the OP is inaccurate; likely due to prejudice and bias is my guess.

[Elhanan]

But months passing in a game where no weather or lighting ever changes makes more sense?

Nope, but personally I prefer to suspend belief over such trivial matters over implementing numerous zots to go the other way. But as others have mentioned, DAI offered variations in some areas using another method, so there are workarounds. One can have ease of implementation with the desired variety, too.

[Gamesaredead]

Day/night cycles are incredibly stupid and Bioware is doing us all a favour by not having them. The cycles have all sorts of insane scale issues - even games that have brilliant and well realized world's suffer from this like TW3, where you see such care about creating a world to scale unlike Skyrim then having a day pass in like a real time hour. It's just stupid.

 

Agree completely. Witcher 3 is where it is done well and to do Witcher 3 on tons of different plantets with different moons and suns and scale problems galore, with super fast vehicles, and on and on?

 

Maybe in two console gens from now (if we count Neo and Scorpio as a gen) and maybe with a 7 year dev cycle for the game lol. I do not think people are going to buy a 120 to150 dollar base game...

 

Like I said before as well. Witcher 3 graphics suffered A LOT to make it more of a "living breathing" world. See early footage of the game compared to what they shipped. Still a great game, but let's not pretend Witcher 3 looks like Uncharted 4 and ME:A might surpass Uncharted in a lot of ways graphically on Frostbite.

[Majestic Jazz]

We're not talking about those single-world games. Why do they factor into the conversation?

Is this about Andromeda or BioWare?

It is a response to those who say it cant be done in MEA cause of the many different sizes of the planet and the length of their day/night cycle.

Well, those previous Bioware games I mentioned all took placd on the same planet and yet still did not have day and night cycles.

This comes as a period where all other open world/open zone games uses them.

Hell, even Battlefield 1 will feature maps that can be played at various times throughout the day as well as dynamic weather.

Speaking of dynamic weather....has it be confirmed that dynamic weather will 100% be in the game? Again, this is 2016. DAI failed to have dynamic weather and again...what was the excuse for that? More resources needed to having rifts placed all over the world?

This is why I wish there was another space AAA Action RPG game that is squad member based to be made to sort of light a fire under Bioware's arses cause they seem to have a monopoly when it comes to this segment of gaming.

Only if CDPR made such game....

[nfi42]

How does it help with immersion when I can literally see it going from day to night in the time it takes the sun to move an inch in the sky in a game that pretends it has actual scale like IRL? It's the total opposite - these cycles are the worst anti-immersion offender.

 

It gives variation in encounters and on different playthroughs which I like,  not so much immersion.  I guess they means it's always the same time of day when revisiting a place and is a bit boring.

 

Witcher 3's day/night cycle should have been longer. considering TW3 amount of time to play,  still lots of cycles.

[nfi42]

The only thing I had to compare with at the time was the E3 demo, which was done on XBOX, and both were great. Then after 700+ hrs of Vanilla, I started modding and it became better. But the base game still looked fantastic, and did not require a top end GPU to see it.

I will not whine either way, or at least do not believe so currently; am willing to go with the Dev's decision on the matter. But the idea that Bioware has not done so in the past, or are loathe to do so again is fiction; the facts illustrate otherwise.

 

I'm not saying it looks bad.

 

I'm not going to whine either,  but I think they might do it.

 

It's the in thing like open worlds.

[In Exile]

It gives variation in encounters and on different playthroughs which I like, not so much immersion. I guess they means it's always the same time of day when revisiting a place and is a bit boring.

Witcher 3's day/night cycle should have been longer. considering TW3 amount of time to play, still lots of cycles.

I'm all for variations - I just don't see how it works without making it, basically, so long you'd never see it in one playthrough.

[themikefest]

Sorry, but Skyrim looks amazing whether it is modded or not, and I have only a mid-range GPU.

For me, it looks good on my ps3

 

A remastered Skyrim will be released in October

[nfi42]

Agree completely. Witcher 3 is where it is done well and to do Witcher 3 on tons of different plantets with different moons and suns and scale problems galore, with super fast vehicles, and on and on?

 

Maybe in two console gens from now (if we count Neo and Scorpio as a gen) and maybe with a 7 year dev cycle for the game lol. I do not think people are going to buy a 120 to150 dollar base game...

 

Like I said before as well. Witcher 3 graphics suffered A LOT to make it more of a "living breathing" world. See early footage of the game compared to what they shipped. Still a great game, but let's not pretend Witcher 3 looks like Uncharted 4 and ME:A might surpass Uncharted in a lot of ways graphically on Frostbite.

 

A couple of suns is just more light sources, Happens all the time indoors.

 

I play on pc so haven't played uncharted 4.  I'll take your word that it looked good.  What I will say is that if MEA has that amount of motion blur as I saw on a youtube clip of the jeep in Madagascar, I will not play unless I can turn it off.

[RoboticWater]

Whether it shared or not, the game was played in 2011, and is still played today. And both sales and time played seems to indicate that many do hold the same opinion.

Unless you're implying that people play Skyrim explicitly for the graphics, then no, it wouldn't seem to indicate that at all. The graphics don't actively impede enjoyment of the game, but they're not anything special. On a purely objective basis, the texture resolution, shadow resolution, and LOD are worse than other games.

 

It gives variation in encounters and on different playthroughs which I like,  not so much immersion.  I guess they means it's always the same time of day when revisiting a place and is a bit boring.

Visual variety is nice, but is it worth the cost of the final image quality? If a certain area looks aesthetically worse at a certain time of day, I'd rather just have fixed lighting than risk seeing a worse image.

 

Hell, even Battlefield 1 will feature maps that can be played at various times throughout the day as well as dynamic weather.

Yes, we're well aware that BioWare can make dynamic weather if they so desire. You've yet to make a convincing argument as to why they should.

[Nitrocuban]

I'm all for variations - I just don't see how it works without making it, basically, so long you'd never see it in one playthrough.

Well, depending on how long the questline will be or what the story requires the local time of arrival could be adjusted so that the player sees at least one change of da/night or weather. And to make sure the player sees something different, cycle through a list of settings of possibilities every time the player revisites the location.

That's really not rocket science.

[nfi42]

I'm all for variations - I just don't see how it works without making it, basically, so long you'd never see it in one playthrough.

 

well it would have to be a fraction of the full day for different planets,  these are just single variables.  Again I want longer than 40 minute days.

[Gamesaredead]

A couple of suns is just more light sources, Happens all the time indoors.

 

I play on pc so haven't played uncharted 4.  I'll take your word that it looked good.  What I will say is that if MEA has that amount of motion blur as I saw on a youtube clip of the jeep in Madagascar, I will not play unless I can turn it off.

 

They will let us turn it off. The graphics they are showing in trailer probably means 30 on consoles probably so motion blur is good at that framerate and we can just turn it off with enough GPU power like Witcher 3 and do 60.

 

With a lower end GPU like a GTX 960/50 or 380/270 30 FPS lock and motion blur might be the way to go though. That new AMD RX 480 for 200 bucks should do 60 FPS fine though. Gonna be GTX 980 tier.

[nfi42]

 

Visual variety is nice, but is it worth the cost of the final image quality? If a certain area looks aesthetically worse at a certain time of day, I'd rather just have fixed lighting than risk seeing a worse image.

 

 

If you're playing on console, this can be resolved with dynamic scaling.  At times, I've looked at games with weather and day/night and couldn't see two feet in front of me.  Aesthetically worse and on pc no performance hit.  But way more fun. Bloom when looking directly into the sun is aesthetically worse too.

 

TW3  allows for fast forwarding of time, so if you really struggling to see what's happening you can do this.  I've only ever done this once indoors at night with candlestick lighting with pouring rain outdoors ina boxing match on the hardest difficulty. 

 

If you haven't played TW3 or on  hardest difficulty, boxing is stupid.  The only way you can win is to properly time a sword parry,  give two sometimes only one sword strike, step back, rinse repeat all this in a restricted interior with obstacles everywhere tripping you up.  It takes about 20 sword strikes to defeat an opponent while it takes them 3 or 4. The light was too poor for me to time the parry.  Boxing is optional in all but one quest,  this was a fight I could lose but I gained significant XP by wining out.

 

If Bioware build a dynamic world with day/night weather and vendors or quest givers who sleep at night, they would need to put a fast forward, or sleep mechanism

 

Again, I don't mind either way, prefer day/night with weather and think it's possible even on current console.

[The Hierophant]

It is a response to those who say it cant be done in MEA cause of the many different sizes of the planet and the length of their day/night cycle.

Well, those previous Bioware games I mentioned all took placd on the same planet and yet still did not have day and night cycles.

This comes as a period where all other open world/open zone games uses them.

Hell, even Battlefield 1 will feature maps that can be played at various times throughout the day as well as dynamic weather.

Speaking of dynamic weather....has it be confirmed that dynamic weather will 100% be in the game? Again, this is 2016. DAI failed to have dynamic weather and again...what was the excuse for that? More resources needed to having rifts placed all over the world?

This is why I wish there was another space AAA Action RPG game that is squad member based to be made to sort of light a fire under Bioware's arses cause they seem to have a monopoly when it comes to this segment of gaming.

Only if CDPR made such game....

Don't get me wrong It can be done, but i want MEA's day/night cycles to take into consideration the difference in rotation lengths for each planet. It would be easier for the team If each planet had the same cycle, but that would be ridiculous, and sadly i can easily imagine there being a multitude of bugs if the team attempts to include a variety of cycle lengths. 

 

Sorry for having little faith in the team but it wouldn't surprise me if when they **** up with the cycles, spend more time fixing the issue while other areas of the game suffers.

[sjsharp2011]

I don't know. We complain about the CC being too dark and we want day/light cycles? Hahah. It's a "realism" trend. Considering that BioWare listens to us, though arguably too much, i think demanding this "latest" craze is waaaaay down in the list of priorities. And this really is old hat too because for nearly a decade WoW has supported this cycle. I think for today's games it's just more of "can we support this bell or whistle". And at this point, i'd rather see the complaint about hair fixed before wasting CPU cycles on keeping an internal timer just to move the damn light source.

That's exactly what I was thinking when I wrote my post. I'd rather they stick to improving areas that can be improved such as hairstyles and such before they start playing with new fancy stuff. I don't really see the benefit of having a day/night cycle in ME anyway. It would work better applying stuff like this to games like Dragon Age because that takes place all on the one world. ME takes place over multiple worlds so to me it's not worth the hassle when there's better things that Bioware can be working on that need improving. For me the most important things they need to do is show they've learnt from the mistakes they made in DAI and build from there. Because while for me DAI is probably the best DA game there were areas that weren't exactly up to standards. Some partly due to the fact I think it was dumbed down for the older consoles, some that were basic bad design decisions. These chains have been removed now so now it's time for them to show us what they learnt from it and deliver an overall better product.

[nfi42]

They will let us turn it off. The graphics they are showing in trailer probably means 30 on consoles probably so motion blur is good at that framerate and we can just turn it off with enough GPU power like Witcher 3 and do 60.

 

With a lower end GPU like a GTX 960/50 or 380/270 30 FPS lock and motion blur might be the way to go though. That new AMD RX 480 for 200 bucks should do 60 FPS fine though. Gonna be GTX 980 tier.

 

I played on a PC with 980m graphics and only get 40fps in TW3 and turn off motion blur and it's fine. DAI was not as forgiving and in fact until windows 10 did not even allow full borderless with optimus.  Another thing wrong with PC DAI.

 

I'm not worried with my current performance.

 

I'm going all in with a new build when nVidia 1080ti hits and the price has stabilized and probably EVGA  with a 4k 27inch g-sync monitor.  Might even wait for 144hz 4k monitors.