43 réponses à ce sujet

[capn233]

Shepard's clone was grown in a vat to full size over the course of two years. So yeah, there's plenty of evidence that the technology exists in Mass Effect.

 

Sadly all that tech was destroyed when Wilson betrayed Cerberus.

[Sartoz]

Actually the Minimum Viable Population has been calculated to be about 160 (80 with certain caveats), so BioWare have a lot of room to maneuver if they wish.

 

For dramatic purposes, this number could go up in the thousands, but it wouldn't need to. 200-500 of each species + 500-1000 mixed military personnel would seem like a healthy and defensible contingent to send on a potentially dangerous exodus.

                                                                                    <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>

 

 Hm... those ARKs are Giganticus. I say 50-100k easy. You need to arrive in numbers to meet threats, colonize, defend and build up the population and oh, add education to maintain the tech. That means, teachers, scientists, lab tech and so on.  Otherwise, you colonize a planet without the necessary support infrastructure to main your civilization.

 

Personally I'd go much higher.

[Kabooooom]

<<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>

Hm... those ARKs are Giganticus. I say 50-100k easy. You need to arrive in numbers to meet threats, colonize, defend and build up the population and oh, add education to maintain the tech. That means, teachers, scientists, lab tech and so on. Otherwise, you colonize a planet without the necessary support infrastructure to main your civilization.

Personally I'd go much higher.

This is a good point. Like I pointed out, theoretically with genetic engineering you could get the minimum viable population size even smaller than what he cited - and significantly so. But that's just the population necessary to successfully colonize without genetic repercussions - it would take considerably more people of varied specialties to support an infrastructure in a scientifically and technologically advanced society.

Or to put it another way, I could take 150 people with the right genetic requirements and put them on an island in the middle of nowhere with no possible communication with the outside world but an adequate amount of natural resources to survive, and I guarantee they would sufficiently bang and reproduce no problem barring disease or warfare. Their population would thrive, but in a few hundred years no one alive would have any idea how to even begin to think about building a computer or a flat screen tv.

In mass effect, a large amount of infrastructure is no doubt automated, but still you need people who know how to fix the machines that are automated to fix the machines that are automated to build certain things.

[SKAR]

Sadly all that tech was destroyed when Wilson betrayed Cerberus.

well......

[Totally Not a Poodle]

It may go as you've laid out, but I personally find it unbelievable that you could find that many volunteers and properly screen them.  There's just not enough time.  I think you're core group would be hand-selected personnel having a hand in gathering resources, building the infrastructure, and assembling the Arks.  The bulk of the workers however may or may not be "volunteers."

Yes, you make a good point.

Possibly project leads, captains and generals, chief of staff's et cetera would be hand picked for the mission. I would still assume though that everyone gets tested, even those they hand pick. And it doesn't have to be rigorous right from the beginning. A simple exam outlining various situations and multiple answers would work for the first stage. Those are generally easy to sift through. Then those who pass go through the next stage, and those who pass that move on to the next; until those people reach the end and are considered right for the mission.

I say volunteer in the sense that they themselves put their name into the hat. They aren't forces to go on the Ark, the same way a person isn't forced to apply for a job. Another way of saying it is, no conscripts.

However, that doesn't rule conscription out. I just think it would be the last resort. I wouldn't bring along an entire ship full of people that don't want to be there.

[DarthLaxian]

Whatever the size needed to sustain a population, I would say double that for the Ark. There needs to be a contingency if say half the pods fail. Nobody wants the expedition to be dead on arrival so to speak.

 

That and take along fertilized embryos (setting up a clinic to incubate them isn't beyond the Milky Way races - remember Okeer and his tank-bred Krogan (he made many, Grunt was just the only one he kept because he was running an experiment and only Grunt was "perfect"...strangely enough, I'd have thought he would want a biotic, but he was ok with just a pure Krogan)...hell, those tanks can go further than make children, you could basically do what they did in Star Wars with the Clone-Army and make fully grown adults that already have the knowledge to work on a colony and/or join the military (it's not even that ethically questionable if the survival of the Milky Way races hinges on that - as long as you don't force the "Tanks" to do something they don't want to do and as long as you give them equal opportunity and treat them the same as anybody else!)) to grow your numbers as fast as possible (when you've got food production etc. up and running!)

[Ahriman]

Considering Ark size and Rule of Cool, I'd guess it's up to million of multi-species colonists on each ship.

Good old Homeworld had up to 400 thousands freshly frozen humans, so I suppose it could be used as lower border.

Even though they could use DNA banks for most of the future population and asari wouldn't breed out even if only one of them arrives.

[TurianSpectre]

What sort of numbers do some of you think we are looking at when it comes to the expedition in terms of the size of the population in the expedition?  It will have to be large enough to sustain a viable population once we get some colony worlds going but it will still be extremely limited.  At the minimum it will be in the thousands even the tens of thousands but I can't see it eclipsing more than a few hundred thousand if even that.  While the arks look big they are still limited in the numbers they can reasonably sustain for a journey that will take centuries.

hundreds of thousands at least i would think... more probably in the millions

[Monk]

Considering Ark size and Rule of Cool, I'd guess it's up to million of multi-species colonists on each ship.

Good old Homeworld had up to 400 thousands freshly frozen humans, so I suppose it could be used as lower border.

Even though they could use DNA banks for most of the future population and asari wouldn't breed out even if only one of them arrives.

 

hundreds of thousands at least i would think... more probably in the millions

 

Well, based on my estimates, a little over a hundred thousand is possible. Millions, not so much. Because unlike the Citadel, which holds ~44 million, carriers can travel at FTL.

[Kabooooom]

Well, based on my estimates, a little over a hundred thousand is possible. Millions, not so much. Because unlike the Citadel, which holds ~44 million, carriers can travel at FTL.

It's unclear exactly what the Citadel is capable of - we know for certain that it does have Mass Effect engines. It is mentioned by Barla Von in ME1 and in the codex. It moved 75,000 light years from the Serpent Nebula to Earth using the relay network, but to get from the Charon relay to Earth in a reasonable period of time, it would require FTL. The Reapers could have somehow moved it with their own FTL, creating a mass effect envelope around it. Or, the Citadel could have moved with its own engines. But it can move, absolutely.

And we also don't know how big those Arks are. They definitely aren't as big as the Citadel, logically, but we have nothing to really compare their size to. Going off the "Presidium-esque" concept art which is probably the Ark and probably near that central spherical structure (it's not the toroidal structure as the concept art does NOT show a Stanford torus like the Presidium is, it is more spherical), I would ballpark that the entire ship may be 1/3 the size of the Citadel, max. But that's an extremely ball parked and BS'd estimate.

[Monk]

It's unclear exactly what the Citadel is capable of - we know for certain that it does have Mass Effect engines. It is mentioned by Barla Von in ME1 and in the codex. It moved 75,000 light years from the Serpent Nebula to Earth using the relay network, but to get from the Charon relay to Earth in a reasonable period of time, it would require FTL. The Reapers could have somehow moved it with their own FTL, creating a mass effect envelope around it. Or, the Citadel could have moved with its own engines. But it can move, absolutely.

Spoiler

And we also don't know how big those Arks are. They definitely aren't as big as the Citadel, logically, but we have nothing to really compare their size to. Going off the "Presidium-esque" concept art which is probably the Ark and probably near that central spherical structure (it's not the toroidal structure as the concept art does NOT show a Stanford torus like the Presidium is, it is more spherical), I would ballpark that the entire ship may be 1/3 the size of the Citadel, max. But that's an extremely ball parked and BS'd estimate.

 

Do you know if this is documented anywhere? I've checked the Wikia/Codex entries for the Citadel and nothing comes up, though the mass effect cores are briefly mentioned. I don't recall anything that would suggest this and, in general, space stations are moved, they don't move of their own volition, otherwise the Citadel would have been moved how many countless times before. Considering it also contains the end-point for a mass relay, i highly doubt they had the means to move it out of position by its own power, though it did mysteriously once it was discovered to be the Catalyst.

 

 

(start at around 8:07:25 to see the jump)

[Kabooooom]

Do you know if this is documented anywhere? I've checked the Wikia/Codex entries for the Citadel and nothing comes up, though the mass effect cores are briefly mentioned. I don't recall anything that would suggest this and, in general, space stations are moved, they don't move of their own volition, otherwise the Citadel would have been moved how many countless times before. Considering it also contains the end-point for a mass relay, i highly doubt they had the means to move it out of position by its own power, though it did mysteriously once it was discovered to be the Catalyst.

https://youtu.be/IxCMIsJTL0o

(start at around 8:07:25 to see the jump)

If you are asking where it is stated that the Citadel has engines, it is stated in various codex entries and - like I said - directly stated in conversation with Barla Von in the Presidium in Mass Effect 1.

If you are asking specifically about the bolded quote, then I think you might have misunderstood me because I elaborated in the several sentences that followed that bolded part. I said that to travel from the Charon relay near Pluto to Earth in a reasonable timeframe, it would require FTL - or at least extremely, extremely fast sublight travel. And the latter seems unreasonable to me considering that the allied forces literally had no idea the Citadel was even moved. The proof that speed like that would be required comes not from the codex but from the distances involved. And really, the Charon to Earth distance is a problem itself, but you have the same problem in every single star system that contains a mass relay between Earth and the Citadel (which is a number that is larger than that shown in the game for gameplay purposes. We don't know exactly how many, but we know that it takes 15 hours to reach the Citadel from Eden Prime, which takes seconds during gameplay).

I then went on to say that while the Citadel has engines, that doesn't necessarily explain how it moved from relay to relay, as the Reapers could have easily physically moved it as well. But it MUST have used the relay network, because even at 30 light years per day Reaper FTL speed, it would take years to travel from Earth to the Serpent nebula. Depending on the exact distance of the nebula from Earth, it would be ballpark anywhere from 5 to 15 years.

You do make a very good point though - the Citadel is a mass relay and it can't be moved that much on a regular basis or the link wouldn't work. I was under the impression that the Citadel engines are really used just to make minor orbital adjustments, or to maintain the right angular momentum of the arms and Presidium (as the nebula gas cloud would gradually slow the rotation rate with time).

[PunchFaceReporter]

I imagine they'd be bringing native plant and animal species from each alien race too. I can't believe Humanity would leave those poor Earth Kittens to the fate of the Reapers.

[Shadow Recon117]

I imagine they'd be bringing native plant and animal species from each alien race too. I can't believe Humanity would leave those poor Earth Kittens to the fate of the Reapers.

 

Hopefully none of the Krogans get into the area where the kittens are kept.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Several thousands per Ark, at least. From the looks of it, those ships are massive, and need less living space than conventional crafts since the crew will spend the vast majority of the voyage on ice. I wouldn't be surprised if there are tens of thousands of people per ship. 

[Kabooooom]

Several thousands per Ark, at least. From the looks of it, those ships are massive, and need less living space than conventional crafts since the crew will spend the vast majority of the voyage on ice. I wouldn't be surprised if there are tens of thousands of people per ship.

This would also make sense from a practical standpoint that I hadn't considered before too - you could pack thousands of people in rows of cryo easily enough. In the trailer, we can see that Ryder is in a cylindrical structure with five "arms" (meant to be reminiscent of the Citadel, I'm sure), and that on each of the five corners of the cylinder are rows of cryo tanks. This is the kind of economical design you would think of if you created something like an O'Neill cylinder and filled it with cryo tanks instead of living space, it's incredibly efficient.

Then you could just wake up a small subset of the population, and they would be tasked with finding colony worlds and setting up a base colony. When a colony world is found and basic infrastructure, habitats, etc are deployed, then you wake up more people from cryo. At a given time, only the Pathfinders would really use the Ark as a hub.

That would massively cut down on the necessary living space.

[Monk]

If you are asking where it is stated that the Citadel has engines, it is stated in various codex entries and - like I said - directly stated in conversation with Barla Von in the Presidium in Mass Effect 1.

If you are asking specifically about the bolded quote, then I think you might have misunderstood me because I elaborated in the several sentences that followed that bolded part. I said that to travel from the Charon relay near Pluto to Earth in a reasonable timeframe, it would require FTL - or at least extremely, extremely fast sublight travel. And the latter seems unreasonable to me considering that the allied forces literally had no idea the Citadel was even moved. The proof that speed like that would be required comes not from the codex but from the distances involved. And really, the Charon to Earth distance is a problem itself, but you have the same problem in every single star system that contains a mass relay between Earth and the Citadel (which is a number that is larger than that shown in the game for gameplay purposes. We don't know exactly how many, but we know that it takes 15 hours to reach the Citadel from Eden Prime, which takes seconds during gameplay).

I then went on to say that while the Citadel has engines, that doesn't necessarily explain how it moved from relay to relay, as the Reapers could have easily physically moved it as well. But it MUST have used the relay network, because even at 30 light years per day Reaper FTL speed, it would take years to travel from Earth to the Serpent nebula. Depending on the exact distance of the nebula from Earth, it would be ballpark anywhere from 5 to 15 years.

You do make a very good point though - the Citadel is a mass relay and it can't be moved that much on a regular basis or the link wouldn't work. I was under the impression that the Citadel engines are really used just to make minor orbital adjustments, or to maintain the right angular momentum of the arms and Presidium (as the nebula gas cloud would gradually slow the rotation rate with time).

 

I apologize for getting a little focused there. I had forgotten about the discussion with Barla Von and honestly have very little knowledge of the workings of a space station and what keeps it in place. It just seems unlikely that something at the magnitude in size of the Citadel, let alone three or more, would be used to traverse so much space. Considering the knowledge gleaned from the Protheans and Collectors, no doubt the ability to squeeze in five-times the number people in sleeper cells would be possible for a carrier or so sized space vessel, allowing for nearly a million to be transported.

[Sartoz]

 

I'm taking a semi-mathematical approach to this. Cruisers in the MEU (ME Universe) are approximately 700m. Considering that RL carriers are approximately 55% larger, this would put the Arks, likely carrier class, to be approx. 1088m. This makes MEU carriers 318% larger than RL carriers (using the USS Enterprise's stats). With numbers alone, the population could be >18,500 people on a normal cruiser. Considering the Arks have four arms, assuming tech advancement to make use of redundant system space, this would mean each Ark could hold a total population >60,000. With a minimal of three Arks seen, we have at least 180,000 sentients going to Andromeda.

 

List form…

• MEU Cruisers: ~700m
• RL Cruisers (i.e. USS Long Beach): ~220m
• RL Carriers (i.e. USS Enterprise): ~342m
• MEU Carriers: ~1088m == ~1.088km == 318% larger than RL Carriers
• MEU Space Stations (i.e. Citadel): ~44.7km == 4110% larger than MEU Carriers

 

• RL Carrier Complement: 5828 (maximum)
• MEU Carrier Complement: ~18,500
• Ark Complement (four arms): ~74,100 [RL to MEU]
• Citadel Population (total): 13.2M (except keepers)
• Ark Complement (four arms): ~32,100 [Citadel to MEU Carrier]

 

Expected Ark Complement (per): 30,000 - 75,000

Expected Ark Complement (per, statisically-ish): 47500 +/- 35000

 

My guess, anyway.

 

                                                                                   <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>

 

Are your numbers based on living space? 'Cause the colonists would be placed in stasis pods that take up little room. These can be stacked tight. My guess, based on your ark measurements is a much higher number... 120k/ARK easy.

 

What gets me, though, is that Bio mentioned the colonists were volunteers. I cannot comprehend Bio's rationale. When faced with race annihilation, forced "recruitment" is warranted.

[Monk]

                                                                                   <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>

 

Are your numbers based on living space? 'Cause the colonists would be placed in stasis pods that take up little room. These can be stacked tight. My guess, based on your ark measurements is a much higher number... 120k/ARK easy.

 

What gets me, though, is that Bio mentioned the colonists were volunteers. I cannot comprehend Bio's rationale. When faced with race annihilation, forced "recruitment" is warranted.

 

Nah, these estimates are based on standard living quarters (from Citadel to more packed military accommodations). Considering how the military pack their people, probably could pack as many as 300K per vessel utilizing sleeping pods, with a total of nearly a million for three of them.

 

Let's say this was planned as far back as pre-ME2 and they didn't want to incite a panic, in part because it would leave tracks for the Reapers to follow. What better way to illicit volunteers than "exploring another galaxy". You have several worlds to comb for volunteers, a fair portion being young military. All under this guise.