8 replies to this topic

[livewire144volts]

Something I think that might be cool is to have an 'origin' scene in DA4. Maybe not as long as the Dwarf Noble origin, but something like the whole fleeing Lothering quest bit in DA2. If having the option of different backgrounds for your characters, I think it might help immersion to have a small scene where the PC is introduced before they're thrown into the main story line.

Straight up in DA2, you find out you have a mother and two siblings and your home is destroyed. That's a great deal of context for building a world in the players head. I think it kinda gives the player a chance to fill out their character themselves a little before thrusting them in the main story line. It's also part of what I found so appealing about Origins. In both Origins and DA2, you got a real feel for PC and some of what influenced them. While the Inquisition does reveal the PC's life before the Conclave, it's only experienced through dialogue options well into the game. Although, I really like the fact that the companions and advisors were nosey enough to ask the PC how their past. (However, they're not quite nosey enough to being up a discussion about the PC's love life.)

I found it a bit jarring playing a Dalish elf and feeling I had been in the Hinterlands far too long and then telling Cassandra I liked trees. At the time I was like, "No, I don't like trees! At all. Or, at least, not trees in the Hinterlands." (This was before I realised it was better to go to other places and return to the Hinterlands every so often, rather than be a completionist and drive myself batty.)

I've also been thinking about how this could have been applied to Inquisition, but I'm unsure if it would have fit. With the way the Inquisitor finds out what truly happened later on any scene would have been during the Conclave and there would have been a significant time jump between that scene and waking up in a cell. And the Conclave blows up as soon as you press "start." But, perhaps, that could have been an effective way to make the player wonder how the PC ended up from Point A to C.

[Ghost Gal]

Something I think that might be cool is to have an 'origin' scene in DA4. Maybe not as long as the Dwarf Noble origin, but something like the whole fleeing Lothering quest bit in DA2. If having the option of different backgrounds for your characters, I think it might help immersion to have a small scene where the PC is introduced before they're thrown into the main story line.

 

I like the way you think. And I support this.

 

Sadly, I don't know if the devs would spring for it. They've denied requests for making more playable origins before because they claim the time and money spent on it would be taken out of characters acknowledging your race and background in the main game. For DAO, it has become a bit infamous for being the game where your origin matters for an hour and then once you reach the main story (Ostagar) it's never acknowledged much beyond a few throwaway lines here or there (especially in your home area; Orzammar for dwarves, Circle for mages, etc), and the throwaway lines are pretty brief (essentially, "Hello, you are an elf!" and then talk to you normally). 

 

Then again, I love DAO's immersion. The amount of minutes spent acknowledging the PC's race and background in DAI can be counted on one hand (unless you talk to Solas about elves), despite it being a 150+ hour game, so I don't know who they think they're fooling. They couldn't even spring to have a Dalish Inquisitor tell Morrigan they know who Mythal is when you arrive at the Temple, so it's hard to give credence to the lack of playable origins significantly affecting acknowledgment in the main game.

 

I'm all for this idea, personally. I think a nice, short, mini-origin kind of like Hawke's intro in DA2 for each race/background would be a nice compromise between establishing your character and throwing your character into the main game; knowing where your character is coming from with leftover dialogue budget to include characters acknowledging/discussing your race/background with you, and not knowing where your character is coming from and having to wait for characters to tell you where you're coming from hours later into the game.

[nightscrawl]

I don't think DAI was really given the opportunity to incorporate the additional races in a decent fashion. We only got the three additional races as a result of that extra year of development time. Sure, an extra year seems like a lot of time, but it's not really the same as knowing you have a set amount of races from the beginning and working from that point onward. For all we know, they originally had a lot more personalized content for the, at that time, single human race, which then had to be scrapped for a reduced amount to match the other limited content for the other races.

 

I actually think the main reason that human plays well for the bulk of DAI is only because of the faith element since Andrastianism is primarily a human religion. If it weren't for that, the feeling might be different. Sure, you may point to Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts, but race has no real impact there other than offering a Court Approval bonus at the beginning, which is easily lost depending on player action.

 

So if they have a chance to develop the game from the outset knowing that there will be different races, we might have more reactivity.

 

 

[edit]

I'd also point out that the role of Herald, and then Inquisitor, transcends race and origin, much in the same way that the Warden did. People look on the PC as that role, regardless of where they're from or what they look like. DAI is very much a game of how others view the person, not about how they portray themselves. The PC can deny they're the Herald all day long, but that won't change the fact that some do see the PC in that way.

Edited by nightscrawl, 26 June 2016 - 07:08 PM.

[Ghost Gal]

I don't think DAI was really given the opportunity to incorporate the additional races in a decent fashion. We only got the three additional races as a result of that extra year of development time. Sure, an extra year seems like a lot of time, but it's not really the same as knowing you have a set amount of races from the beginning and working from that point onward. 

 

Indeed. Yet, in spite of its limitations, the number of people who played non-humans this game far exceed those who did in DAO.

 

According to the game's stats, in DAO only 20% of players played non-human races; 15% elves (most of those Surana for the magic boost), and 5% dwarves (most of those the dwarf noble for Gorim's discount). For DAI, I hear roughly 50% of players were recorded to play non-humans; 35% elves, and 15% Qunari/dwarves (though not sure how much of which). Considering DAO was designed with race selection from the start while DAI added them last minute, that's pretty impressive. If they keep up the good work, maybe it'll be higher next game.

 

For all we know, they originally had a lot more personalized content for the, at that time, single human race, which then had to be scrapped for a reduced amount to match the other limited content for the other races.

 

It could have been. Or, for all we know, it could have amounted to nothing more than a few throwaway lines and a special quest or two reflecting those different backgrounds just like Commander Shepard in ME. The devs said the protagonist's backgrounds were always going to be text-based at the start of DAI, even before race selection was added, so not much changed there.

 

I can see why we never would have had origins at the start of the game like DAO or DA2 since the game was always going to be about the player waking up following an explosion with amnesia, but, you know...

 

I actually think the main reason that human plays well for the bulk of DAI is only because of the faith element since Andrastianism is primarily a human religion. If it weren't for that, the feeling might be different. Sure, you may point to Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts, but race has no real impact there other than offering a Court Approval bonus at the beginning, which is easily lost depending on player action.

 

And Descent has mostly dwarven stuff, Trespasser has lots of Qunari stuff, and the entire second half of the game (Temple of Mythal, Flemeth, Solas) has elfy stuff.

 

I'd probably argue that playing a human works for the first half of the game because that's when the Chantry stuff is most prevalent, but after the second half of the game and DLCs it becomes less and less prominent until the other race stuff takes over; especially elfy stuff. I've heard people who've played both the devout human and elf say that they felt playing a human was the perfect choice for the first half of the game but it felt less relevant later on, while playing the elf felt less relevant first but felt more perfect by the second half of the game. I've heard people who're most invested in the Chantry stuff complain that they felt the elfy stuff steals the spotlight toward the end of the game (welcome to our world), and so on and so forth.

 

So if they have a chance to develop the game from the outset knowing that there will be different races, we might have more reactivity.

 

Touche. Text-based background planned from the start + multiple races planned from the start = probably would have led to more inclusive dialogue and story from the start.

 

Still, I think it was worth it. I love playing elves, dwarves, and qunari to pieces (though I love elves best), and I would have been really sad to learn the second half of the game was so heavily steeped in elven lore and history yet the player was prevented from playing an elf because reasons. They'd probably still be planning next game as human only (despite the elfy nature of the conflict) and I'd be fuming. It'd be like playing DA2 but being prevented from playing a mage. I don't think it's right.

 

Hopefully next game they'll include other backgrounds besides "noble" for humans, because even I'm getting bored with that.

[livewire144volts]

Hopefully next game they'll include other backgrounds besides "noble" for humans, because even I'm getting bored with that.

 

I think there was a plan for a human barbarian origin in DAO, but it was scrapped due to time constraints.

 

Playing as an Avaar, Chasind, or any human who isn't a noble really, in later games would be great.

[VivainaDX]

Ok, can I interject something here. From my experience, I found I didn't like playing dwarves because they where kind of sluggish and I found them awkward to control where as elves and humans were more agile. I liked playing the female & male Quinari control wise, but not being able to romance Cullen with my female Quinari was a real bummer. In DAO I wasn't impressed with how Alister tosses you to the curb if your not a human noble and he's king and yet he leads you on.

 

TBH I didn't find too many non-human/non-elf characters worth romancing,,,exept Varric, Harding and possibly Sten from DAO. It would be neat to get a better look at the Avaar/Chasind lifestyle though.

[Almila_Lavellan]

Something I think that might be cool is to have an 'origin' scene in DA4. Maybe not as long as the Dwarf Noble origin, but something like the whole fleeing Lothering quest bit in DA2. If having the option of different backgrounds for your characters, I think it might help immersion to have a small scene where the PC is introduced before they're thrown into the main story line.

Straight up in DA2, you find out you have a mother and two siblings and your home is destroyed. That's a great deal of context for building a world in the players head. I think it kinda gives the player a chance to fill out their character themselves a little before thrusting them in the main story line. It's also part of what I found so appealing about Origins. In both Origins and DA2, you got a real feel for PC and some of what influenced them. While the Inquisition does reveal the PC's life before the Conclave, it's only experienced through dialogue options well into the game. Although, I really like the fact that the companions and advisors were nosey enough to ask the PC how their past. (However, they're not quite nosey enough to being up a discussion about the PC's love life.)

I found it a bit jarring playing a Dalish elf and feeling I had been in the Hinterlands far too long and then telling Cassandra I liked trees. At the time I was like, "No, I don't like trees! At all. Or, at least, not trees in the Hinterlands." (This was before I realised it was better to go to other places and return to the Hinterlands every so often, rather than be a completionist and drive myself batty.)

I've also been thinking about how this could have been applied to Inquisition, but I'm unsure if it would have fit. With the way the Inquisitor finds out what truly happened later on any scene would have been during the Conclave and there would have been a significant time jump between that scene and waking up in a cell. And the Conclave blows up as soon as you press "start." But, perhaps, that could have been an effective way to make the player wonder how the PC ended up from Point A to C.

 

 

I couldn't agree more. This was exactly what I thought when I started DA:I. I expected to see origin stories of my characters and events before explosion - at least a little. I really didn't understand there was an explosion at first since I didn't expect such a thing.    After that, I felt like I didn't know my character because I didn't know anything about her old life. In my opinion, "origins" were what connected players with their characters, at least for me it was like this. I hope "origins" return in the next game - if there is any...

[nightscrawl]

^ I can see how this just looks like some fancy animation not connected to anything, especially on a first play, but when you hit "new game" you actually see the explosion happen.

[livewire144volts]

And it is great that you see the explosion (yeah, it wasn't until my second playthrough that I went "Oh, that's the Conclave) but it doesn't give you a lot of feel for why you were there. There is the backstory text in the Character Creator, but it doesn't really give a sense of your character until the dialogue options later in the game.

 

There's just something about being able to interact with some NPCs in an non-threatening-the-world-depends-on-you kind of way to get a feel for how you want to play. It's even better went those choices that you thought didn't have any consequences ended up having consequences. Like returning home to Denerim and everyone hating your guts, having an NPC confess their love for you before they die, or having a sibling die due to the class you chose etc.