928 réponses à ce sujet

[Sartoz]

I don't have to know what a reporter would wear in a future fictional universe to know that the devs who created this fictional character in this fictional universe chose to put a professional woman in an outfit that is sexualized. Characters don't have any choice in what to wear in the universe the devs created. Even if the devs said, "Welp, in our universe this is what reporters wear" her outfit would still be a problem as the question would then become, 'why did the devs choose to create a universe in which female reporters wear sexualized outfits?' The answer, of course, is, duh, fan service. 

 

ETA: And, yes, Allers' outfit is a problem as well. 

                                                                                  <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>

 

Sexualized my sweet azz.

 

What do you consider a non sexual outfit... a Burka?

[maia0407]

                                                                                  <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>

 

Sexualized my sweet azz.

 

What do you consider a non sexual outfit... a Burka?

lol, We've already been over the burqa comment. Too lazy to have an original thought, eh?

[Obvakhi]

Bioware tries to create characters that feel like more than just 'objects' in a game.

They do that just fine.

We're supposed to relate to and care about the characters. I prefer to play games that treat women as people and not just objects to be viewed.

If you can't look past their appearance then that is your problem. I'm sorry that you couldn't see the other traits and personality that make up that character. But I guess that doesn't matter because if they choose to wear a more suggestive outfit then they are suddenly not 'people' anymore... how narrow minded of you.

[maia0407]

They do that just fine.

If you can't look past their appearance then that is your problem. I'm sorry that you couldn't see the other traits and personality that make up that character. But I guess that doesn't matter because if they choose to wear a more suggestive outfit then they are suddenly not 'people' anymore... how narrow minded of you.

You seem to be missing the point that fan service sexualization does not add to characterization. It detracts from it. How silly of you. Not unexpected, though.

[Obvakhi]

You seem to be missing the point that fan service sexualization does not add to characterization. It detracts from it.

Says who?

Certainly not people like OP and many other female players that don't mind it...

[Kynare]

I prefer realistic over revealing. No interest in being PC, I'm just a bit of an armor nut and it really disturbs me when I see something so blatantly impractical

 

Besides, I think an armor design is perfectly capable of being sexy and cool without being revealing.

[maia0407]

Says who?
Certainly not people like OP and many other female players that don't mind it...

Says me and plenty of other women. Not all women have to agree to make the point valid. Good grief. Why is it that the very blatantly obvious has to be spelled out for each and every one of you guys that wants more boobs in the game?

[Gileadan]

BioWare is most welcome to include a wide variety of armor, from revealing to super tanky, as long as the stats match the looks - so please no catsuits with the same protection stats as tactical dreadnought armor.

[Killroy]

                                                                                  <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>

 

Sexualized my sweet azz.

 

What do you consider a non sexual outfit... a Burka?

 

Just stop. That's such a stupid argument and you know exactly what we're talking about.

[Sartoz]

lol, We've already been over the burqa comment. Too lazy to have an original thought, eh?

                                                                                    <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>

 

Actually, no.  It's the right response to trollish bait. It deserves  a repeat, since it didn't sink in the first time.

 

As someone else said up thread. Play E games if you find M rated games offensive.  Mass Effect games are M rated. Deal with it.

 

I'm moving on.

 

 

 

 

[Killroy]

                                                                                    <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>

 

Actually, no.  It's the right response to trollish bait. It deserves  a repeat, since it didn't sink in the first time.

 

As someone else said up thread. Play E games if you find M rated games offensive.  Mass Effect games are M rated. Deal with it.

 

I'm moving on.

 

Trollish bait? You're saying an M rating equates to childish sexualization. Who's the troll here?

[SKAR]

Trollish bait? You're saying an M rating equates to childish sexualization. Who's the troll here?

I think this has run its course. Enough is enough. You're just ruining yourself. It's not worth it man.

[Killroy]

I think this has run its course. Enough is enough. You're just ruining yourself. It's not worth it man.

 

...

[Obvakhi]

Trollish bait? You're saying an M rating equates to childish sexualization. Who's the troll here?

I find it ironic you have Tracer as your avatar... is that not 'childish sexualization' as well?

[The Hierophant]

I could careless about a character's formal wear, whereas i'm a stickler when it comes to the practically of their combat attire in relation to the setting. 

[nfi42]

Bioware tries to create characters that feel like more than just 'objects' in a game. We're supposed to relate to and care about the characters. I prefer to play games that treat women as people and not just objects to be viewed. 

 

Nobody  has said anything about preferring women to wear a burqa. If you read the thread there are a number of nuanced views that get nowhere near your hyperbole. 

 

How would a game show the difference between a sexualized character or a a character who is comfortable in their own sexuality and thus wears a sexy dress?

[dreamgazer]

I could careless about a character's formal wear, whereas i'm a stickler when it comes to the practically of their combat attire in relation to the setting.

Absolutely. Catsuits and breather masks need to be spaced.

[Squinterific]

I just want to point out that armor doesn't need to be "revealing" to make the character look hot. There are other ways to do hotness than chain-mail bikinis or high heels.

[SKAR]

...

I get into arguments because I believed what I'm arguing over is just and I have my reason, most of the time. But this is shenanigans, foolishness. Not worth your time of the other guy. Call me a hypocrite, I'm just sayin.

[In Exile]

I disagree about Miranda's outfit not being out of character for her. Miranda is a very practical woman, yet according to the lore her outfit is the opposite of practical for her occupation. It's not like the armors in Mass Effect lack the ability to be aesthetically pleasing. Her own DLC armor is a great example.

Spoiler

This armors offers full protection minus a helmet, and yet still allows her to use her 'perfect' body to her advantage like her canon outfit does.

Miranda isn't practical at all. Where do you get that from? She seems to like engaging in overly sophisticated plots and thrives on subtle power plays - that's her whole shtick with Jacob's father.

More importantly, Miranda *objectified herself*. I'm pretty sure Shepard actually calls her out on it. The fact that she wears objectifying armour captures that aspect of her personality and her character, whereas your example does not. She doesn't respect herself or her origins. Visually, this kind of look works. The problem is that it isn't meant to be "sexy" so much as it is meant to be a weird sense of self-loathing lack of confidence. Kind of like Jack, actually.

[Killroy]

I find it ironic you have Tracer as your avatar... is that not 'childish sexualization' as well?

 

Not at all. The complaints about her being sexualized were nonsense, as proved by the fact that the complainers "won" by getting a more overtly "sexy" pose as replacement for the one they couldn't tolerate. And the tone and aesthetic of Overwatch is more akin to The Incredibles than Mass Effect, so sexualization is very debatable, even in the case of Widowmaker. 

 

I get into arguments because I believed what I'm arguing over is just and I have my reason, most of the time. But this is shenanigans, foolishness. Not worth your time of the other guy. Call me a hypocrite, I'm just sayin.

 

[9TailsFox]

You seem to be missing the point that fan service sexualization does not add to characterization. It detracts from it. How silly of you. Not unexpected, though.

[maia0407]

                                                                                    <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>

 

Actually, no.  It's the right response to trollish bait. It deserves  a repeat, since it didn't sink in the first time.

 

As someone else said up thread. Play E games if you find M rated games offensive.  Mass Effect games are M rated. Deal with it.

 

I'm moving on.

 

The 'right' response to a discussion about sexualization is to present no counter viewpoints and instead to go to the most absurd extreme that nobody is advocating for, is that it? The 'right' response is to characterize conversation you dislike as 'trollish bait'. What, no SJW accusation? Come on, man, you're not completing the dudebro checklist.

 

But I will thank you for the advice for what games I can play. Until this point in my life I was incapable of choosing games for myself. Now, with your help, I know what games are appropriate for my lady-brain. 

How would a game show the difference between a sexualized character or a a character who is comfortable in their own sexuality and thus wears a sexy dress?

We had a discussion earlier in this thread that touches on your question. It was about Chakwas ME1 outfit and why it doesn't appear sexualized despite being tight.

 

First and foremost, I would urge writers and animators to put some thought into why they are depicting a character a certain way. If the writers are creating a character with built in justifications for her sexualized clothing, like Isabella, I'd go further and ask why is she being created? Is this trope already done to death in gaming? How many women have we created for this franchise with in-universe justifications for these clothing choices? Do we really need another one? 

 

If the writers go ahead with the character they need to put some thought into what they are showing. Are they actually showing something about her character that the audience is able to discern from the context or writing of the situation? Or, are they choosing clothing for a character based on what a perceived male fan base wants to see?

 

You've failed as a creator if the audience  is forced to make up excuses for the devs, such as, "Well, maybe all female doctors wear a bikini to work in the future" or "Maybe, the reporter wants to seduce Shep or was on her way to the club". Nothing in Wong's scene suggested she was seducing Shep or that she was on her way out for the night. We're just left to make weird assumptions to justify the fact that Wong wasn't dressed like a professional in her first scene. 

 

Ultimately, the creators have to remember that characters can't give consent to how they are depicted as they are fictional. Putting your character in a sexualized outfit and crying "Empowered" doesn't make it so. Creators have to be careful to actually show consent in the writing. 

 

Here's a good comic on sexualization vs sexual empowerment and how to tell the difference. http://everydayfemin...vs-objectified/

[nfi42]

We had a discussion earlier in this thread that touches on your question. It was about Chakwas ME1 outfit and why it doesn't appear sexualized despite being tight.

 

 

To be clear, costumes do not bother me.  I do agree that for the sake off immersion, combat characters should wear appropriate combat gear. I should have been clearer in my question. Undoubtedly Chakwas' outfit is not sexualized. 

 

Allers is just a bit player in ME3's story, nothing is known about her history.  You assume (most likely correctly) that her costume is meant to be eye candy because combat characters definitely are. Isabella is easily accepted as being comfortable in her sexuality due to backstory. 

 

If in MEA,  combat characters did wear combat attire, do we need backstory to define an Allers type character as comfortable in her sexuality?  imo it's not necessary. I think for bit players, we don't really need context.  In real life, we don't assume anything when we see a random woman wearing a sexy dress walking down the street.

[9TailsFox]

The 'right' response to a discussion about sexualization is to present no counter viewpoints and instead to go to the most absurd extreme that nobody is advocating for, is that it? The 'right' response is to characterize conversation you dislike as 'trollish bait'. What, no SJW accusation? Come on, man, you're not completing the dudebro checklist.

 

But I will thank you for the advice for what games I can play. Until this point in my life I was incapable of choosing games for myself. Now, with your help, I know what games are appropriate for my lady-brain. 

We had a discussion earlier in this thread that touches on your question. It was about Chakwas ME1 outfit and why it doesn't appear sexualized despite being tight.

 

First and foremost, I would urge writers and animators to put some thought into why they are depicting a character a certain way. If the writers are creating a character with built in justifications for her sexualized clothing, like Isabelle, I'd go further and ask why is she being created? Is this trope already done to death in gaming? How many women have we created for this franchise with in-universe justifications for these clothing choices? Do we really need another one? 

 

If the writers go ahead with the character they need to put some thought into what they are showing. Are they actually showing something about her character that the audience is able to discern from the context or writing of the situation? Or, are they choosing clothing for a character based on what a perceived male fan base wants to see?

 

You've failed as a creator if the audience  is forced to make up excuses for the devs, such as, "Well, maybe all female doctors wear a bikini to work in the future" or "Maybe, the reporter wants to seduce Shep or was on her way to the club". Nothing in Wong's scene suggested she was seducing Shep or that she was on her way out for the night. We're just left to make weird assumptions to justify the fact that Wong wasn't dressed like a professional in her first scene. 

 

Ultimately, the creators have to remember that characters can't give consent to how they are depicted as they are fictional. Putting your character in a sexualized outfit and crying "Empowered" doesn't make it so. Creators have to be careful to actually show consent in the writing. 

 

Here's a good comic on sexualization vs sexual empowerment and how to tell the difference. http://everydayfemin...vs-objectified/

Or they can make any character they want and sexualise and objectify as mush as they want. If you don't like isabela pirate **** or Cullen fanservice knight it's your problem. Cullen is in game because a lot of horny girls want it don't like you problem not writer they wanted to make eye candy for girls fine, same think isabela,