Questa discussione ha avuto 43 risposte

[Tchos]

Ok. But when you've got a normal map and a specular map, how does it work? I suppose the exporter doesn't merge the two maps, so I'd need to copy the specular map into the alpha channel of the normal map, wouldn't I?

 

I don't know what exporter you're talking about.  I don't use 3ds Max or Blender, if you're referring to one of those.  I make my specular maps in Photoshop directly in the normal map's alpha channel, but if you're making the specular map with a high resolution 3D model, such as in 3ds Max or Blender, or perhaps Crazy Bump as IADCFT mentioned, I would assume most of them output the maps separately, since there is no set-in-stone standard for which alpha channel does what in games, so you would need to copy it into the normal map's alpha channel, yes.

 

Also as IADCFT mentioned, the resolution may be a factor.  I would expect for the veins to be properly visible, the normal map texture should be at least 1024x1024, but I would probably go 2048x2048.

[IAmDeathComeForThee]

Also as IADCFT mentioned, the resolution may be a factor.  I would expect for the veins to be properly visible, the normal map texture should be at least 1024x1024, but I would probably go 2048x2048.

Yeah, I would use 2k as well which is what I had provided in the file.  I've used 2k quite a bit with the engine and I never noticed any performance issues.  It seems to handle higher res textures just fine without having a large impact on things.

[IAmDeathComeForThee]

  
Ok. But when you've got a normal map and a specular map, how does it work? I suppose the exporter doesn't merge the two maps, so I'd need to copy the specular map into the alpha channel of the normal map, wouldn't I?

I would add the spec map directly to the model inside 3ds in the spectacular(?) field.  Cant remember what the field was called but the one that was used to adjust the sheen inside its material.  Seemed to transfer just fine into the engine.

[IAmDeathComeForThee]

I'm sure the leg bones don't influence the back, but there could be some adjustments to make between the hips and the torso.

It's nothing to worry about.  Those last two rolls just seems to be stretching down a bit making his butt kind of lower than you'd expect it to be .  If that's as good as it gets without really tearing your hair out then don't fret over it.

Again, really appreciate you being able to work on this, very cool to see him finally making it in.

[Tchos]

Yeah, I would use 2k as well which is what I had provided in the file.  I've used 2k quite a bit with the engine and I never noticed any performance issues.  It seems to handle higher res textures just fine without having a large impact on things.

 

Agreed.  The engine seems to manage mipmapping well, and I haven't seen any performance hit with them either.  Plus, you're probably not going to have a big horde of these creatures in your area.

[4760]

I would add the spec map directly to the model inside 3ds in the spectacular(?) field.  Cant remember what the field was called but the one that was used to adjust the sheen inside its material.  Seemed to transfer just fine into the engine.

I didn't see any difference, but I didn't try all the settings.

[-Semper-]

I would add the spec map directly to the model inside 3ds in the spectacular(?) field.  Cant remember what the field was called but the one that was used to adjust the sheen inside its material.  Seemed to transfer just fine into the engine.

i doubt that this works. the exporter only links the texture names within the model as a reference (diffuse, tint, normal). you have to manually copy the spec map to the normal map's alpha channel to get any effect in-game, else the map is not recognized by the engine. in max the specular amount is set to 1 and in-game it's controlled through the spec map.

[4760]

I didn't see any difference, but I didn't try all the settings.

-Semper- confirmed why, and also explained why I thought specular maps didn't work in NWN2.
Well, the next Cyclops will use:
- a 2048x2048 set of diffuse, tint and normal maps,
- a normal map whose alpha channel is a copy of the specular map,
- an improved skin modifier.

It will take a few days obviously (3D modeling and games creation is not my line of work), but we'll get it done.

[-Semper-]

Well, the next Cyclops will use:
- a 2048x2048 set of diffuse, tint and normal maps,

i would not waste this much vram for a 2k tint map. if there's no fine detail to be tinted a 512 or 1k texture is big enough for a creature of that size. same theory can be applied to all the different maps. they also don't have to be the same size.
the cyclops is around the size of an ogre, therefore 1k should be more than enough pixel space even for fine details like veins. neat little trick: you rebake the normal map as a 2k texture and downsize it afterwards to 1k to safe vram.
 
looking at the screenshots in this thread there's definitely something wonky going on with the normal map. i bet it has something to do with running the texture through crazy bump after baking. usually this destroys the tangent space information the game engine needs to calculate the correct lighting. it's really bad practice to manually edit the normal map or the mesh after baking. personally i would rebake the normal texture directly in max or xnormal (freeware) for comparison.

[rjshae]

Possibly it was exported as an object space normal map rather than a tangent space normal map? I've seen that royally muck up the look of a model. Do you see any yellows in the normal map? If so, it's probably the wrong type.

[-Semper-]

no, it's definitely in tangent space. at least in blender it's also rendering without issues. i have to test the model as a static mesh in-game, but perhaps something went wrong while exporting the model to mdb?
 




@4760: the normal map works without issues in-game. what did you do besides applying a skin modifier to rig the mesh? somewhere there did go something wrong in the process. btw the textures above are 1k.

[Tchos]

I agree the tint map doesn't need to be any bigger than 512, and 256 may be enough.  The render above does look good with the normal at 1024, but I'd still like to see how it looks at 2048.

[-Semper-]

the texture applied in blender is at 2k resolution. the finest details are the small wrinkles running across the chest to the arm-pit and the vein on the biceps. those can also be seen in-game with a 1k normal map, though the details are hard to notice because i didn't add any specular information.
 
ps: it also looks like that blender's viewport needs an inverted green channel. the normal map appears to be flipped.

@IAmDeathComeForThee: did you bake the normal map in max?

[4760]

@4760: the normal map works without issues in-game. what did you do besides applying a skin modifier to rig the mesh? somewhere there did go something wrong in the process. btw the textures above are 1k.

Apart from converting the png and jpg textures to tga, then dds for the mipmapping, nothing. Since I never got the same screenshot as yours, I definitely messed something up during the texture files conversions. Actually, I believe I know what I did wrong.

[IAmDeathComeForThee]

Ahhh, there he is!  Well that is much better.  All that work put in on the fine detail is back which is great to see.  That was what I was looking at in 3ds.  Also things are proportionate again, but I'm thinking that rigging him to the fire giant might might just be that necessary evil which makes his features somewhat disproportionate, namely the back and arms.

 

The render above does look good with the normal at 1024, but I'd still like to see how it looks at 2048. 

Yes, definitely myself as well.

 

the texture applied in blender is at 2k resolution. the finest details are the small wrinkles running across the chest to the arm-pit and the vein on the biceps. those can also be seen in-game with a 1k normal map, though the details are hard to notice because i didn't add any specular information.
 
ps: it also looks like that blender's viewport needs an inverted green channel. the normal map appears to be flipped.

@IAmDeathComeForThee: did you bake the normal map in max?

Yeah, the normal definitely looks flipped in that Blender screen.

 

I baked the normal map in z-brush then tweaked it a little in Crazy Bump.

 

Also Cyclops are giant kin are they not?  It was mentioned they are the size of ogres, but I was under the impression they are larger then that so a higher resolution textures could be slightly more beneficial.

[Tchos]

Well, ogres are classified as giants, as well.

[IAmDeathComeForThee]

http://www.filedropp...m/cyclopsoutfit

http://www.filedropp.../cyclopsoutfitn

 

Above are the two texture files for the clothing.  Sorry, my dropbox account is full so I have to use these wacky upload websites.  Just a quick note, the clothing was used from a different source and was not created by me. 

[IAmDeathComeForThee]

Well, ogres are classified as giants, as well.

Right, been a while.

[Tchos]

However, the ogre is a "large giant", and there are 2 varieties of cyclops in 3.5 Deities and Demigods.  One is a "large giant", and the other is a "huge giant" (listed as 20 feet tall, versus 12 feet for the "large" one).