144 réponses à ce sujet

[dreamgazer]

what?

https://en.wikipedia...nal_spacecraft)

[SKAR]

https://en.wikipedia...nal_spacecraft)

Thanks. Haven't seen BSG in a year. The new one not the old.

[themikefest]

I like  Battlestar Galactica from the late 70's.

[Treacherous J Slither]

Yes, it would be silly... just as silly as taking exception to 1 ARK ship being named after a Greek mythological character headed to a Galaxy named after another Greek mythological character. Works of fiction borrow names from our human histories all the time... that doesn't make the story inherently human-centric or about human dominance. We're all human and they want us as humans from various backgrounds to feel somewhat connected to that universe they've created. They don't want to make it completely alien. IDK, maybe it's a generational thing, but I really like it when literature draws on history or on old literature for inspiration... and I don't automatically go pulling out the "human-centric" card when I just see something named after something from our human past.

BTW, I'm not saying that there weren't elements of human dominance in the Mass Effect Trilogy... there were (a question of human dominance on the council was, after all, part of the plot). Still, going on about it in ME:A because we spot 1 name of 1 ARK as having a human origin is just "silly" at this point in time (IMO, of course)... and that's why I brought up something even sillier... just to point out how silly I think it is.

I don't have an issue with the one human ship being named after something from our history. That's fine and sensible.

I do however have a problem with ships for other races being named after something from our history.

This is the 12 ark ships one for each race 12 Greek gods thread right?

[SofaJockey]

https://en.wikipedia...nal_spacecraft)

 

Thanks for getting that reference, '12 colonies of man': 12 arks - enemies are the Cylons...

(I was a teenager when the original series was on, so I think I'll just shut up and sit over there...)

[Vortex13]

Humanity in Halo is absolute weaksauce with the exception of the Spartan IIs. Yeah, they're being posthumously jerked off by the Forerunners as their successors, but they have yet to back that up with any real actions.

Meanwhile, a small Covenant fleet could wipe out every single Mass Effect species put together, including the Reapers.

 

 

This is true, but I think he was just talking about the emphasis on humanity as inheritors of the Mantle as a "human-centric storyline" which is lame, and I agree with him.

Humanity in Halo was weak sauce though, lol. They are hopelessly out-teched by the Covenant, they won a few battles but all in all the Covenant was doing a system by system extermination of humanity.

By the start of Halo, they just lost Reach, the second most populous planet to Earth, literally practically next door to Earth, and the center of humanities' military industrial complex. They were absolutely screwed.

The ONLY reason humanity wins the human-Covenant war is because of sheer luck. Cortana points this out repeatedly. They happened to find alpha Halo with encoded Forerunner data that they discovered just in the nick of time, then they barely destroyed it without letting the Flood loose, and the actions of that contributed to the Covenant civil war, which decimated their forces and High Charity and bought the Sangheili as allies. Then they got lucky with the Ark situation too.

Then Mendicant Bias sends the Chief to Requiem, but what follows in Halo 4 to 5 is basically a long series of lucky circumstances with a touch of Spartan battle skill thrown in.

 

 

That would be part of it Kaboooom, but even though the Spartan II's are the poster child of the franchise, regular ole humanity is still one big, fat Mary Sue in the Halo setting (IMO).

Spoiler

 

 

Even the Spartan 3s and 4s, who recruit anyone, (like say Sergeant Buck, a regular human), are capable of wiping out an entire Covenant regiment with just four solders, all while they skydive (without parachutes) / ski down a mountainside. 

 

As Arcian pointed out, the Covenant out-tech all of the ME aliens put together, and yet humanity, by itself, is able to force them to change tactics, despite being vastly outgunned. A multi-species conglomerate, with access to vastly superior technology for thousands of years, somehow is unable to face-roll all of humanity in a matter of months. This is because the all of the aliens in the Halo-verse have the mental capacity of a brain dead cockroach, apparently.

 

How many years did the Covenant have access to Forerunner tech? How long had the various species within the Covenant been part of a cohesive fighting unit? And yet, it is only humanity who are able to reverse engineer and improve upon the Covenant's and Forerunner's designs; like we're the only species in that universe that possesses ingenuity apparently. Humanity's military forces are more disciplined and organized than the entirety of the Covenant's armies, allowing us to win many battles, because again, we are also apparently the only species capable of battlefield tactics in this universe as well. 

 

Plus, there's the whole thing with Forerunner tech being hard coded to only work for humanity; it would be like the Mass Relays and Citadel only allowing human operation. The whole setting is geared towards humanity being the god race. 

 

 

At least in Mass Effect, the aliens have their own (limited granted) autonomy outside of the Alliance and are actually capable of accomplishing things on their own. And it isn't solely humans that are taking on the Reaper invasion in ME 3.

[DarthLaxian]

The problem I have with such a theory, is that if the Council did indeed take Shepard seriously, and they put forth the effort and resources to construct a contingency plan, using never before seen technology, then why did they not inform their militaries to prepare as well?

 

By the start of ME 3 the entirety of the Milky Way's military is caught with it's pants down when the Reapers show up. If the Council believed Shepard enough to build ARKs, why didn't they clue in their admirals and generals to the impending doom approaching?

 

To avoid WIDESPREAD panic!

 

Also: I am guessing that they think that they've got no chance at all (remember: The Protheans were an EMPIRE and basically at war all the time, so they had larger fleets (sure: They lost the relays early on and the Citadel, too but over all they still lost!), ground troops and their technology (weapons, shields etc.) was better, too!)

 

I mean yes, we manage to stop them from shutting down the relays and rally all the races, but the game basically tells us that we need a DEUS EX MACHINA to win, despite having all those advantages over the previous cycles (which the council knows, too - I mean I am pretty sure that the STG at least didn't think that Sovereign was a Geth ship...if the Geth had something like that, they'd have built a lot more before attacking the galaxy, they are machines and doing what they are doing isn't logical if they aren't trying to call in backup (the other Reapers!))...Vigil tells us as much (remember: He's only out of power, not destroyed, so anybody in the know could have gone to Ilos to get access to it! I am sure that the council would be highly interested in a Prothean VI!)

[Vortex13]

To avoid WIDESPREAD panic!

 

Also: I am guessing that they think that they've got no chance at all (remember: The Protheans were an EMPIRE and basically at war all the time, so they had larger fleets (sure: They lost the relays early on and the Citadel, too but over all they still lost!), ground troops and their technology (weapons, shields etc.) was better, too!)

 

I mean yes, we manage to stop them from shutting down the relays and rally all the races, but the game basically tells us that we need a DEUS EX MACHINA to win, despite having all those advantages over the previous cycles (which the council knows, too - I mean I am pretty sure that the STG at least didn't think that Sovereign was a Geth ship...if the Geth had something like that, they'd have built a lot more before attacking the galaxy, they are machines and doing what they are doing isn't logical if they aren't trying to call in backup (the other Reapers!))...Vigil tells us as much (remember: He's only out of power, not destroyed, so anybody in the know could have gone to Ilos to get access to it! I am sure that the council would be highly interested in a Prothean VI!)

 

 

Okay, so don't tell the general public if you are wanting to avoid a panic, but leaving your species' militaries in the dark?

 

That's war crime levels of incompetence there.

[DarthLaxian]

That would be part of it Kaboooom, but even though the Spartan II's are the poster child of the franchise, regular ole humanity is still one big, fat Mary Sue in the Halo setting (IMO).

Spoiler

 

 

Even the Spartan 3s and 4s, who recruit anyone, (like say Sergeant Buck, a regular human), are capable of wiping out an entire Covenant regiment with just four solders, all while they skydive (without parachutes) / ski down a mountainside. 

 

As Arcian pointed out, the Covenant out-tech all of the ME aliens put together, and yet humanity, by itself, is able to force them to change tactics, despite being vastly outgunned. A multi-species conglomerate, with access to vastly superior technology for thousands of years, somehow is unable to face-roll all of humanity in a matter of months. This is because the all of the aliens in the Halo-verse have the mental capacity of a brain dead cockroach, apparently.

 

How many years did the Covenant have access to Forerunner tech? How long had the various species within the Covenant been part of a cohesive fighting unit? And yet, it is only humanity who are able to reverse engineer and improve upon the Covenant's and Forerunner's designs; like we're the only species in that universe that possesses ingenuity apparently. Humanity's military forces are more disciplined and organized than the entirety of the Covenant's armies, allowing us to win many battles, because again, we are also apparently the only species capable of battlefield tactics in this universe as well. 

 

Plus, there's the whole thing with Forerunner tech being hard coded to only work for humanity; it would be like the Mass Relays and Citadel only allowing human operation. The whole setting is geared towards humanity being the god race. 

 

 

At least in Mass Effect, the aliens have their own (limited granted) autonomy outside of the Alliance and are actually capable of accomplishing things on their own. And it isn't solely humans that are taking on the Reaper invasion in ME 3.

 

Isn't that because the forerunners basically wiped out humanity and think they've got a debt to humanity (humanity only attacked them because they were fleeing the flood!)...the Mantle and all that! (Funny, I haven't played Halo in a long while (don't have a console, so I've only played the games that were available for PC), but I still ove that universe and remember those facts!)

[Catastrophy]

12 Ark ships - 12 hours a day -> one ship for every hour.

[Vortex13]

I don't have a problem with the story being being predominantly about human colonization and peripherally about colonization of the other Milky Way species - after all, we are human and I give significantly less fucks about whether or not another species will succeed in this endeavor to be honest.

The only thing I really object to is the "humans are special trope". Like if we go to Andromeda and find that the Remnant are really the descendants of ancient humans, or that they choose us to inherit their legacy, or that humans "genetic diversity" and super interesting badassness is what caught the Reapers special attention - for example.

Luckily, I do think Bioware is more creative than that as a whole. Then again, Mass Effect 2's overarching story was a thing, so maybe not.

 

Same here.

 

I actually don't mind humanity being the focus of the story; a human protagonist helps to keep the plot concise (IMO); I just want humanity to be a small part of a much larger whole. There should be nothing innately superior about our species compared to all the rest. 

 

I don't think Bioware will go full Halo, but hey I could be wrong.

 

 

Well BioWare did have the lead writer from Halo 4 involved with story development up until a few months ago...

[UpUpAway]

I don't have an issue with the one human ship being named after something from our history. That's fine and sensible.

I do however have a problem with ships for other races being named after something from our history.

This is the 12 ark ships one for each race 12 Greek gods thread right?

 

... and I'm saying... what does it really matter?  It's IRL humans who are "creating" these alien worlds.  If we, for example, put subtitles in an alien alphabet because it's an alien saying the line, no one playing the game would be able to read the subtitles.  The names of the ships, even if they do come from human references, don't have to be used to be "representative" of human-centrics within the story line... they can be just a name in that context.  If the human history of the name is not pointed out in the story line, it should be just as easy for the player to "imagine" it derives from some sort of alien history as it is to "imagine" that the subtitles represent what the alien is saying in an alien language and in an alien frame of mind.  In Mass Effect 1, the names used to name the planets, clusters, and systems had some sort of origin in human history... and if they didn't have a precise origin, they "sounded" like they could be linked to a human origin... yet there was no real reason to get upset over it... no assumption that it was humans, for example, who had "settled" all those worlds.

 

Just because the name "Hyperion" is one of a number of Greek gods, doesn't mean that the ships naming the other Greek gods won't be distorted in some way but still be sort of sounding like they belong in a Greek setting... much like "Thessia" vs. "Thessaly" (whose capital, incidentally, was "Larissa" vs. Liara).

 

Authors should be able to use "undertones" of various historical references in science fiction without the readers taking such references to literally be indicative of a theme concerning human-centrics.  That way, if the reader wants to delve into Greek mythology to decide if there is any common situation there that might add some depth to their understanding/interpretation of the fictional story, they can do that.  Names are one way the authors can "hint" at what their inspirations for the story might have been.

[DarthLaxian]

Okay, so don't tell the general public if you are wanting to avoid a panic, but leaving your species' militaries in the dark?

 

That's war crime levels of incompetence there.

 

No, because the military personal would tell their close family and it would spread from there (you can't keep a secret in the military unless you only tell very very few and if it's an extinction level event even those few would think about telling other people to "give them a chance" - afterwards it would be a PR nightmare where people would demand the councillors heads! So no, don't tell the military, just authorize some more ships etc.)

 

Is it a war crime to keep the population in the dark? - Maybe, but I admit that I'd think about it if it were up to me, because all the people putting their lives on hold doesn't serve anyone (it's like knowing you will die in 2 years...frankly I don't know if I'd like to know about that!))

[Monk]

Fact of the matter is, every alien species will have their own naming conventions and will likely use those in the company of the same species. The same will go for the ships. The only concern i would have if they all had human-only naming conventions vs multiple designations from each major council species. Think DMV and other government documents. They all have the main language then either the second major language or have the same documents translated into all the minority languages. While "Hyperion" might be fine as part of the Ark's designation, i'm expecting formal designations "approved" by the council since these will be council vessels, not strictly human.

[Unata]

Fact of the matter is, every alien species will have their own naming conventions and will likely use those in the company of the same species. The same will go for the ships. The only concern i would have if they all had human-only naming conventions vs multiple designations from each major council species. Think DMV and other government documents. They all have the main language then either the second major language or have the same documents translated into all the minority languages. While "Hyperion" might be fine as part of the Ark's designation, i'm expecting formal designations "approved" by the council since these will be council vessels, not strictly human.

 

Wait, who said this ARK business has anything to do with the Council?

 

Considering the Milky Way has many inhabitants, most don't realize were talking not millions, not billions, but trillions and trillions, the Council doesn't have it's claws, paws what have you in every pot, could simply be a group of smart folks that listens to Shepard in the first place in ME1 and knows it's going to be an iffy outcome in the long run.

[Monk]

Well, considering the Alliance needed help building the Crucible, i'd think they'd probably need some assistance building the Arks as well. This, of course, doesn't mean the Council doens't need to get involved but some sign-off might be required; difficult to say as it's BioWare's universe.

 

I just imagine the other species would like to keep the ships universal and not Human-specific.

[Helios969]

12 Ark ships - 12 hours a day -> one ship for every hour.

Doesn't that kind of depend on which planetary body you hail from? 

[Catastrophy]

Doesn't that kind of depend on which planetary body you hail from? 

What?! NO!! That just determines the LENGTH of the hour!

[Monk]

I think we're going to need more than twelve ships, the way this is going.

[MaximusArael020]

I don't have an issue with the one human ship being named after something from our history. That's fine and sensible.

I do however have a problem with ships for other races being named after something from our history.

This is the 12 ark ships one for each race 12 Greek gods thread right?

I don't have a problem with it, and here is why:

 

Most alien things in the Mass Effect universe have names derived from human history anyway.  Thessia is an homage to Thessaly in Greece.  The space station on which Aria (a name, btw, coming from a human term in music) operates is called Omega, another human term.  She operates out of the Afterlife club, another human term.  Most of the planet and system names that we see on the galaxy map have names from human culture (i.e. Armstrong Nebula, Athens, etc.).  Even the term "Reaper" is from human culture.  So why should the names of the ships not be from human culture?  The Asari don't seem to mind living on a planet named from our history.