Questa discussione ha avuto 16 risposte

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Greetings.

 

I have been having a problem lately and it involves having good builds for non-Human mage Inquisitors.

• The maximum level in Inquisition is 27 points. That means 27 points.
• We have 2 starting spells at the beginning of the game that will get refunded if we respec. That means an extra point.
• The Inquisitor can obtain up to 2 Amulets of Power. One of them is in a house Crestwood that is available after Still Waters side quest and the other is from a war table operation titled A Gift from the Imperial Palace, which is unlocked if Celene and Briala reconciled in Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts questline. That means two extra points.
• The Inquisitor can also obtain an extra ability point from the Exclusive Training Inquisition perk. That is another extra point.
• If you are a human, your racial passive grants you one extra ability point which you gain when you level up for the first time.

In total, if you are a non-Human Inquisitor, you can have up to a maximum of 31 ability points and if you are a Human Inquisitor, you can have 32 ability points. Yes I know there are glitches and mods to gain more ability points but I am not interested in that.

 

The problem with Rift Mage and Necromancer builds that I have is that they require 32 ability points. Here are my builds:-

 

Necromancer:- http://www.rpg-gamin...33d42a54c61e701

 

Rift Mage:- http://www.rpg-gamin...35443152a65c701

 

As you can see, the Necromancer and Rift Mage builds that I have, the ones that have all the necessary abilities and passives, require 32 ability points. I don't know which ability or ability upgrade or passive I should drop to make it to 31 ability point or even 30 ability point since I am not going to always make Celene and Briala reconcile with each other.

 

So any suggestion on what ability or ability upgrade or passives I should drop would be greatly appreciated.

 

Or should I just not bother with making a non-Human Necromancer or Rift Mage Inquisitor and play as a non-Human Knight Enchanter Inquisitor instead ? Here is my Knight Enchanter build:-

 

Knight Enchanter:- http://www.rpg-gamin...32a41156563d701

 

Yes it is not a perfect Knight Enchanter build since I do not have Chaotic Focus passive and I am using Chain Lightning instead of Static Cage but that is only because if I do so, I would require either 32 ability points or 33 ability points. Still it is a pretty good build.

 

So what should I do ? Drop one ability point from Necromancer or Rift Mage and if so which one or do I just pick Knight Enchanter instead ?

 

Have a nice day and cheers.

[ottffsse]

Necro: take out either tansmute mage (dispel upgrade) or rejuvinating barrier. rejuvinating barrier is nice but you will be fine without it with energizing step, death siphon, and great bear sigil.

rift mage: more difficult to decide. smothering veil seems the most sacrificeable as you can survive without the 30% damage reduction passive.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Necro: take out either tansmute mage (dispel upgrade) or rejuvinating barrier. rejuvinating barrier is nice but you will be fine without it with energizing step, death siphon, and great bear sigil.

rift mage: more difficult to decide. smothering veil seems the most sacrificeable as you can survive without the 30% damage reduction passive.

 

When it comes to Rift Mage, I believe I can make it work with 30 skill points but it requires a bit of a rethink.

 

Build:- http://www.rpg-gamin...35443d52a65c701
 

The differences between this Rift Mage build and the previous one:-

• I have dropped Winter's Grasp and Winter's Ruin.
• Fire Mine's upgrade is now Flaming Array instead of Searing Glyph.
• Pull of the Abyss' upgrade is now Devouring Veil (500% Area of Effect damage) instead of Shaken Veil (Weakness and cooldown reduction).

So what I ended up with is a close quarters combat (CQC) Rift Mage build. Here is the skill rotation.

1. Cast Barrier on self.
2. Fade Step towards or through enemies.
3. Cast Veilstrike on enemies.
4. Cast Chilling Array on enemies.
5. Cast Stonefist to trigger the Impact detonator and Shatter effect.
6. Cast Flaming Array on enemies.
7. If enemies are not dead at this point, spam Immolate. If necessary, cast Pull of the Abyss.
8. Rinse and repeat.

Caveats:- If there is a spellcaster, switch Veilstrike for Dispel. If there is a powerful boss like a High Dragon or Giant, switch Veilstrike for Energy Barrage.

 

As for staff, I would actually go with a custom Blade of Tidarion staff that you can craft using its schematic. Not the actual Blade of Tidarion for that one is an electricity staff which can mess with mana regeneration but a custom crafted one with fire and ice damage.

 

You are going to be in melee range with this Rift Mage build most of the time anyway and Blade of Tidarion has a glorious bug/exploit feature whereby you can get an Energy Barrage with 24 projectiles:- http://forum.bioware...darion-exploit/

[PapaCharlie9]

After about 21-22 points its all gilding the lily anyway. You'll have your core and secondary abilities at 22 points. The 8 slot active limit becomes the controlling one. I often don't even bother to spend the last 4-5 points -- once I have all the actives and passives I want, there's no use for them.

But if you must spend every point ...

Necro: drop Rejuve Barrier

Rift: you nailed it in the rebuild. It made no sense to pay for Ice Mine and not have it in an active slot!

KE: you could drop Guardian Spirit. You've got infinite barrier regen and Fade Cloak, you don't really need that extra insurance.

[ottffsse]

After about 21-22 points its all gilding the lily anyway. You'll have your core and secondary abilities at 22 points. The 8 slot active limit becomes the controlling one. I often don't even bother to spend the last 4-5 points -- once I have all the actives and passives I want, there's no use for them.

But if you must spend every point ...

Necro: drop Rejuve Barrier

Rift: you nailed it in the rebuild. It made no sense to pay for Ice Mine and not have it in an active slot!

KE: you could drop Guardian Spirit. You've got infinite barrier regen and Fade Cloak, you don't really need that extra insurance.

unless you are soloing with the ke, then you still want guardian spirit perticularly in jaws of hakkon and some of the tougher fights.

[PapaCharlie9]

unless you are soloing with the ke, then you still want guardian spirit perticularly in jaws of hakkon and some of the tougher fights.

Agreed, any of the one-hit kill NM+Trial situations.

[sjsharp2011]

After about 21-22 points its all gilding the lily anyway. You'll have your core and secondary abilities at 22 points. The 8 slot active limit becomes the controlling one. I often don't even bother to spend the last 4-5 points -- once I have all the actives and passives I want, there's no use for them.

But if you must spend every point ...

Necro: drop Rejuve Barrier

Rift: you nailed it in the rebuild. It made no sense to pay for Ice Mine and not have it in an active slot!

KE: you could drop Guardian Spirit. You've got infinite barrier regen and Fade Cloak, you don't really need that extra insurance.

 

 

Yeah I agree once I have all the powers I'm going to use on a playthrough I mostly use the remaining points on upgrading the ones I plan on using most. Mostly to just give the powers I have  a little extra boost in the latter end of the game as I find that to be the best way to handle it.

[Mike3207]

Doing the math on Energy Storm-12 * 166%= 1,944% weapon damage total damage-even if not focused on one enemy. You don't use a point on that?

[ottffsse]

Doing the math on Energy Storm-12 * 166%= 1,944% weapon damage total damage-even if not focused on one enemy. You don't use a point on that?

It is generally not worth it because most OP mage builds use firemine/flame array for their massive aoe damage. You want to keep energy barrage as a precice single target nuke to focus on single dangerous targets. I think half of the upgraded energy barrage projectiles are wasted and just fizzle randomly in the air. The exception is when you are fightning a huge single target like a dragon which has multiple target points like head / legs etc.

[PapaCharlie9]

Doing the math on Energy Storm-12 * 166%= 1,944% weapon damage total damage-even if not focused on one enemy. You don't use a point on that?

The first time I tried Energy Storm, about 25% of the magic missiles didn't hit anything. It might be better now, that was like the first day that Trespasser was out. I never tried it again, assumed it was bugged.

EDIT: ottf ninja'd me 

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Rift: you nailed it in the rebuild. It made no sense to pay for Ice Mine and not have it in an active slot!

KE: you could drop Guardian Spirit. You've got infinite barrier regen and Fade Cloak, you don't really need that extra insurance.

 

I actually modified a few things after a few testing.

 

Rift Mage:- http://www.rpg-gamin...35443d52a65c701

 

This is a build that is tailored for Trespasser. Quite a number of Qunari combatants like the Qunari Shock Trooper will be highly resistant or immune to fire and frost on the harder difficulty levels with Trials toggled on.

 

This means you only really have Stonefist and Pull of the Abyss as damage sources. Hence the Lightning Bolt so the Rift Mage can other sources of damage. Furthermore, if the Rift Mage is desperate, they can toggle Fade Step's upgrade for Energizing Step, switch Veilstrike for Energy Barrage, switch Immolate or Fire Mine with Lightning Bolt, use a Lightning staff to fight the Qunari and equip the Amulet of Renewal or Sigil of the Great Bear. The downside is that you lose Transmute Magic but that's not that big of a deal IMO.

 

I personally dislike what Bioware did with the Qunari resistances in DAI. In DAO, Sten specifically mentions that he feels cold in Ferelden in a dialogue with Wynne and in DA2, the Qunari were weak to Frost (I still have fond memories of mage Hawke owning the Arishok using cold spells, nature spells, Gravitic Ring and Glyph of Paralysis). IMO, Bioware should have kept the DA2 Qunari's resistance to fire and lightning for DAI instead of having it fire and frost.

 

Knight Enchanter:- http://www.rpg-gamin...32a46551e63d701

 

Knight Enchanters generate their own barrier so losing the upgrade for the Barrier spell is not so bad. I decided to switch to Static Cage from Chain Lightning since Knight Enchanters sacrifice area of effect spells and crowd control for defense and melee capability. Lightning Cage gives a Knight Enchanter some decent crowd control alongside Chilling Array.

 

Necromancer:- http://www.rpg-gamin...33d42a54c61e701

 

As many of you have said, losing the Rejuvenating Barrier passive is not too costly provided you have Energizing Step and something like the Amulet of Renewal or Sigil of the Great Bear. I have to ask something else though:- How good is Horror + Terror on Nightmare with Trials ? I have not seen many people use it. Even the legendary Necromancer Ottffsse / Seb Allerman did not use it in his videos so I am wondering how good it is on the harder difficulties ? I know on lower difficulties Horror + Terror is awesome on mooks though.

[ottffsse]

I actually modified a few things after a few testing.
 
 
As many of you have said, losing the Rejuvenating Barrier passive is not too costly provided you have Energizing Step and something like the Amulet of Renewal or Sigil of the Great Bear. I have to ask something else though:- How good is Horror + Terror on Nightmare with Trials ? I have not seen many people use it. Even the legendary Necromancer Ottffsse / Seb Allerman did not use it in his videos so I am wondering how good it is on the harder difficulties ? I know on lower difficulties Horror + Terror is awesome on mooks though.

I like Horror+Terror and I did use it on my run mid game. It does "lock" down a target untill their health is low or the duration of the spell expires. The problem is that eventually you have all these other "great" abilitites and in the end I went for ice array/ flame array because ice array was a much faster cast animation and a much larger area actually than horror. Speed was king while soloing basically. I had to trade off the fact that I could not panick enemies and get the damage bonus that way and the chance that certain mooks are resistant to freeze but not panick (looking at you despair demons) for speed+defense (thanks ice armour). That being said although I never think I had the ability point to take the horror upgrade later in the game because I was going down deep in both the winter and lightning tree, I still used that base ability sometimes when facing despair demons in the demon rooms in trespasser.

When not soloing on a dedicated party necromancer it is a good ability, but only if you want the necromancer to be your crowd controller. If you are going for pure pro+damage suicide necromancer, immolate with wildfire is better...because who cares about panick if you can just spam wildfire all the time in simulacrum and then self revive. If you have a second mage with lightning cage you can use horror+terror on the necromancer though and not bother with lightning cage and all the ability points it requires.

BREAKDOWN: there are three, actually four "defensive utility+damage enhancement" abilities to choose for a necromancer mage: 1.)Horror +Terror, 2.)Static cage+Lightning Cage, 3.) Ice mine+Array, 4.) Firewall+upgrade. Out of those four a mage focused on cc would have at most three of those, and a damage mage two out of the four. You pick based on how the rest of your party is set up and or if you are soloing.

And even on a pyro heavy necromancer mage I would generally recommend horror + upgrade rather than firewall+ upgrade as you save 1 ability point that way. My opinion is that the new horror with the terror upgrade makes it superior to firewall hands down, but definately worse than lightning static cage, and a draw with ice array. Ice array ice more defensive, horror+terror is more offensive.

[PapaCharlie9]

BREAKDOWN: there are three, actually four "defensive utility+damage enhancement" abilities to choose for a necromancer mage: 1.)Horror +Terror, 2.)Static cage+Lightning Cage, 3.) Ice mine+Array, 4.) Firewall+upgrade. Out of those four a mage focused on cc would have at most three of those, and a damage mage two out of the four. You pick based on how the rest of your party is set up and or if you are soloing.

^Very much this.

In my Dorian build, which is 100% AI controlled, I used both Horror/Terror and Horror/Despair. The latter does have the side-effect of enemies running away from the field of battle, only to come back later as if out of nowhere. Sometimes that's good, since it's effectively passive CC and reduces your active threat level, but sometimes it sucks, since there are fewer combo opportunities in range. Also, for traps and mines, you don't want enemies running away from them, you want them running towards them. Or at least staying in one place.

You can see in the full build spec for Dorian, I recommend either going the Ice Mine route or the Static Cage route, once you have enough points. Since the build already has Horror and Fire Wall (and Fire Mine, but every mage should have that), that creates the 3 out of 4 for CC in the breakdown.

[Mike3207]

Following up on Exclusive Training perk, how many perks can Inquisitor expect to get in 1 game. My strategy guide suggests not more than 10-11.

[PapaCharlie9]

Following up on Exclusive Training perk, how many perks can Inquisitor expect to get in 1 game. My strategy guide suggests not more than 10-11.

Ah! This is another use for farming gold. I forgot about the good old "Power for a Price" War Table mission. Once you get your Influence up to 6 the hard way, you can do this operation to get a new merchant, Farris the Representative, in Skyhold. He will then sell you diplomatic documents that convert to Power and Influence. Very handy if you are like 150 points away from another Perk point, you can just go buy that 150 points from Farris.

The Influence cap is 20, I believe. I've certainly gotten more than 11 by way of Farris. Although there comes a point where there's nothing left worth buying.

[Mike3207]

Wikia says 19. There's also one oddity-my guide mentions a Inquisition perk named Deeds Renown. it's a network of bard and spies that helps every Inquisition deed garner more power, but it's not listed on wikia with the other inquisition perks. I'll check the inquisition perks later tonight, but it could have been a planned perk that for whatever reason never saw the light of day.

[PapaCharlie9]

Wikia says 19. There's also one oddity-my guide mentions a Inquisition perk named Deeds Renown. it's a network of bard and spies that helps every Inquisition deed garner more power, but it's not listed on wikia with the other inquisition perks. I'll check the inquisition perks later tonight, but it could have been a planned perk that for whatever reason never saw the light of day.

Influence is capped at level 20, which means 19 total Perk points.

Written guides, like the Prima guide, are often made on pre-release software. Which runs the risk of something getting changed in the final release. There's no "Deeds Renown" in the current game. Power is plentiful without any help, so I'm glad they ditched it.