891 réponses à ce sujet

[capn233]

Such a class didn't exist. I wanted to play an Engineer with a sniper rifle, as I could in both ME1 and ME3.

 

This class exists.  It is called Engineer.

[Elhanan]

This class exists.  It is called Engineer.

Not for a starting character; only after touring the Collector Ship. Weapon restrictions were an inferior design choice compared to the other games.

[UpUpAway]

Pretty much all of this, although I always wanted to get all the upgrades even if I didn't need them.

 

The main issue here seems to be people stubbornly refusing to evaluate their tactics and change them when needed.

 

Like 10X

[Elhanan]

Never had the problem where I had to go back looking around for ammo. I just pick up ammo that is dropped by the baddies that I killed as I move forward. If I do run low, I switch to another weapon.
 
I never worried about missing an upgrade. If I did, it was most likely one I didn't need
 
I had no problem with adept. Its my second most used class in ME2

Yes; switching to an inferior weapon is an option. But stopping to police the grounds for ammo seems to make more sense, even though it removes any sense of urgency. And while you may never have had to backtrack for needed drops, I rather disliked leaving Pistol and other weapon upgrades behind, let alone credits or other gear.

And yet, this lesser Player was able to better use the other classes over an Adept, even an Engineer.

[Elhanan]

Pretty much all of this, although I always wanted to get all the upgrades even if I didn't need them.
 
The main issue here seems to be people stubbornly refusing to evaluate their tactics and change them when needed.

Nothing stubborn about not using an ineffective pistol, as it wastes time one could be doing something else.

[capn233]

Not for a starting character; only after touring the Collector Ship. Weapon restrictions were an inferior design choice compared to the other games.

 

So you agree that Engineer could run a Sniper Rifle, since he could.  Good, that is the first step.

 

The funniest thing about any of these weapon restriction discussions is that many fail to recognize that ME1 had harsher overall weapon restrictions.  Engineer and Adept only were trained in one weapon, Sentinel was trained in basically half a weapon.  Congratulations you can take a bonus weapon talent (basically after completing most of a Soldier run) in which case you have 2 weapons.

 

Nevermind that Pistols and Assault Rifles were really the only two choices if you wanted weapon dps.  Shotguns were terrible for damage, with SRs simply adequate.

 

The ME3 weapon system was pretty ****** poor, there was no point in having separate weapon classes whatsoever except to make people play more multiplayer so that they could spend credits on packs looking for specific types of rail amps.  Why isn't there more complaining about this?

 

With respect to MEA, weapons should be restricted in some manner if they have weapon classes.  I would say that allowing the player to choose which weapon class they start with on non-combat classes wouldn't be a horrible idea, but they should not get to choose "all of the above" unless they are a soldier.   Adept, Engineer, Sentinel one choice, unlock second later in the game.  Vanguard and Infiltrator two.

[UpUpAway]

Yes; switching to an inferior weapon is an option. But stopping to police the grounds for ammo seems to make more sense, even though it removes any sense of urgency. And while you may never have had to backtrack for needed drops, I rather disliked leaving Pistol and other weapon upgrades behind, let alone credits or other gear.

And yet, this lesser Player was able to better use the other classes over an Adept, even an Engineer.

 

Another tactic that can be sometimes used is to direct the flow of the fighting to eventually position yourself in a location where you can see ahead of you that ammo has been dropped by enemies.  That way, when there is a lull in the fighting, you can quickly grab thermal clips without feeling like you're stopping to scour the whole battlefield.

[capn233]

Nothing stubborn about not using an ineffective pistol, as it wastes time one could be doing something else.

 

Which pistol is ineffective in ME2?  If you answer incorrectly you will be doomed to only play with a crowbar in MEA.

[Elhanan]

So you agree that Engineer could run a Sniper Rifle, since he could.  Good, that is the first step.
 
The funniest thing about any of these weapon restriction discussions is that many fail to recognize that ME1 had harsher overall weapon restrictions.  Engineer and Adept only were trained in one weapon, Sentinel was trained in basically half a weapon.  Congratulations you can take a bonus weapon talent (basically after completing most of a Soldier run) in which case you have 2 weapons.
 
Nevermind that Pistols and Assault Rifles were really the only two choices if you wanted weapon dps.  Shotguns were terrible for damage, with SRs simply adequate.
 
The ME3 weapon system was pretty ****** poor, there was no point in having separate weapon classes whatsoever except to make people play more multiplayer so that they could spend credits on packs looking for specific types of rail amps.  Why isn't there more complaining about this?
 
With respect to MEA, weapons should be restricted in some manner if they have weapon classes.  I would say that allowing the player to choose which weapon class they start with on non-combat classes wouldn't be a horrible idea, but they should not get to choose "all of the above" unless they are a soldier.   Adept, Engineer, Sentinel one choice, unlock second later in the game.  Vanguard and Infiltrator two.

No; I agree that an Engineer could regain the use of other weapons using Reaper Tech found on a Collector ship, but only one of three. And those that could use said weapons already found upgraded models that were possibly inferior from those seen in the previous title.

In ME1, on Feros?, any class could use a shotgun; recommended tactic on the Wiki to remove Creepers. And while one may be untrained, it works rather well. But somehow this knowledge died with Shepard in ME2, at least it can be regained aboard an alien craft (see above).

I have never played m/p, so evidently I avoided this cunning trap.

[Elhanan]

Another tactic that can be sometimes used is to direct the flow of the fighting to eventually position yourself in a location where you can see ahead of you that ammo has been dropped by enemies.  That way, when there is a lull in the fighting, you can quickly grab thermal clips without feeling like you're stopping to scour the whole battlefield.

I did something like this in my first ME2 campaign with my Infiltrator, as he was cloaked. But as mentioned, with the lack of more powerful weaponry, it was much better to remain in place using abilities; not pistols.

[Elhanan]

Which pistol is ineffective in ME2?  If you answer incorrectly you will be doomed to only play with a crowbar in MEA.

Predator; the pop gun for an advanced civilization. And while I am certain that better Players can make headshots, this rather goes against aiming for center mass.

Carniflex? has punch, but when one is being swarmed by Husks, or critters with heavy armored plating, that may not be the best choice either.

[capn233]

No; I agree that an Engineer could regain the use of other weapons using Reaper Tech found on a Collector ship, but only one of three. And those that could use said weapons already found upgraded models that were possibly inferior from those seen in the previous title.

In ME1, on Feros?, any class could use a shotgun; recommended tactic on the Wiki to remove Creepers. And while one may be untrained, it works rather well. But somehow this knowledge died with Shepard in ME2, at least it can be regained aboard an alien craft (see above).

I have never played m/p, so evidently I avoided this cunning trap.

 

Untrained shotguns are horrid in ME1 regardless of what the wiki might say.  Now if you take the talent and don't put any points into it, they are passable.  They have high weapon force but the damage just isn't there.  You need to land most of the pellets.  Even so, Marksman + Shredder ammo and the occasional elbow of doom is much better on this mission.

 

I don't know what "And those that could use said weapons already found upgraded models that were possibly inferior from those seen in the previous title" means so I can't comment on that, except to say that weapon damage was greatly improved in ME2 relative to ME1.

[capn233]

Predator; the pop gun for an advanced civilization. And while I am certain that better Players can make headshots, this rather goes against aiming for center mass.

Carniflex? has punch, but when one is being swarmed by Husks, or critters with heavy armored plating, that may not be the best choice either.

 

[Giantdeathrobot]

The Thermal Clip Fairy should be thrown out the airlock. It's gonna make even less sense in Andromeda.

Know what makes sense? Reverting to overheating weapons for the trip into alien territory.

 

Yeah, that's something they're going to have to address.

 

Having clips drop from everyone and sundry in ME2/ME3 was believeable enough, I guess. But not in Andromeda, unless Bioware really wants to make random alien beast #8827 drop ammo for your gun that comes from another freaking galaxy. Plus, having a clip manufacturing facility on the Arks seems like a waste of both space and ressources.

[UpUpAway]

I did something like this in my first ME2 campaign with my Infiltrator, as he was cloaked. But as mentioned, with the lack of more powerful weaponry, it was much better to remain in place using abilities; not pistols.

 

I'm not talking necessarily about getting in closer cloaked.  The enemy movements do change depending on where you position yourself and where you position the individual members of your squad.  Using your three positions, you can cause the enemy to flow into certain areas of the battlefield over the course of the battle... increasing the likelihood that ammo will be dropped in that area... where then, you can simply advance yourself into a position near that area and just collect that ammo as you advance. 

 

If there is no way that the enemy will block a retreat (i.e. a door that's likely to lock behind you), you can also sometimes do a tactical retreat that draws the enemies you're still fighting towards a location where you know you've left ammo you didn't previously need behind you.  In ME2, there are some missions where some of the placed ammo will automatically respawn if you engage in this sort of tactical advance and retreat tactic.  The Wrecked Merchant Freighter mission is one of these.

 

Other missions in ME2 are designed to be "low ammo" missions... where there is no or very limited placed ammo to gather and, frequently, enemies just won't drop that much ammo.  The idea on those missions then increase the challenge of them by potentially putting the player in a position where they will run out of ammo and have to resort to other tactics.  On those missions, one other tactic available to all classes that people can use to get through after running out of ammo is to repeatedly direct your squad to fire their weapons on particular enemies.  This increases the damage they can do to that enemy and they can do this even while powers are on cool down.

[UpUpAway]

Yeah, that's something they're going to have to address.

 

Having clips drop from everyone and sundry in ME2/ME3 was believeable enough, I guess. But not in Andromeda, unless Bioware really wants to make random alien beast #8827 drop ammo for your gun that comes from another freaking galaxy. Plus, having a clip manufacturing facility on the Arks seems like a waste of both space and ressources.

 

They can utilize finite ammo (thermal clips) without allowing the player to pick up more ammo in any way during the mission... that is, what ammo you carry onto the battlefield is what you've got... period.  They could change the maximum carrying capacity individually for each mission... to reflect the anticipated length of the mission and the anticipated amount of resistance to be faced (based on intel).  If you run out, you'll just have to resort to powers and other tactics just to survive/complete the mission.  I would prefer this to going back to infinite ammo and bullet-sponge enemies.

[Giantdeathrobot]

They can utilize finite ammo (thermal clips) without allowing the player to pick up more ammo in any way during the mission... that is, what ammo you carry onto the battlefield is what you've got... period.  They could change the maximum carrying capacity individually for each mission... to reflect the anticipated length of the mission and the anticipated amount of resistance to be faced (based on intel).  If you run out, you'll just have to resort to powers and other tactics just to survive/complete the mission.

 

How's that going to work in an open world game? You have a finite set of ammo and have to go back to your Mako/ship every time you run out? That sounds a bit tedious. I could see them doing that for medi-gel, making it a strategic ressources, but having to conserve ammo all the time is only fun if the game is designed for it, as in Deus Ex. In an open world, it will probably just add tedium.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Not for a starting character; only after touring the Collector Ship.

And more importantly, this information isn't available during character creation. The documented rules say that Engineers can't use sniper rifles.

[Elhanan]

Untrained shotguns are horrid in ME1 regardless of what the wiki might say.  Now if you take the talent and don't put any points into it, they are passable.  They have high weapon force but the damage just isn't there.  You need to land most of the pellets.  Even so, Marksman + Shredder ammo and the occasional elbow of doom is much better on this mission.
 
I don't know what "And those that could use said weapons already found upgraded models that were possibly inferior from those seen in the previous title" means so I can't comment on that, except to say that weapon damage was greatly improved in ME2 relative to ME1.

Against the Creepers, it works well; the Wiki is correct.

In ME1, one could acquire the best weaponry, mods, and armor in shops or aboard the Normandy. In ME2, one could get some of it from shops, and take the chance of overlooking gear and credits during Missions. But it seems the Collectors had better gear, although it lacked the effectiveness of the previous gear one already may have seen in ME1 (eg; explosive rounds).

While some mechanics did improve in ME2 (eg; no more drunken aiming), ME3 improved even more.

[UpUpAway]

How's that going to work in an open world game? You have a finite set of ammo and have to go back to your Mako/ship every time you run out? That sounds a bit tedious. I could see them doing that for medi-gel, making it a strategic ressources, but having to conserve ammo all the time is only fun if the game is designed for it, as in Deus Ex. In an open world, it will probably just add tedium.

 

Insert a intel debrief (based on probes, recon, etc.) whenever you select a planet or place on a planet to go to and have the game adjust the initial ammo load automatically and give the player a choice to go out with a full ammo load (more weight) or a lighter load (more mobility/speed, etc.) to give the player some planning agency for that mission.  Presumably, you do return to your ship to get to new planets and you do return to the mako to drive between battle areas on individual planets, don't you?  If you run out mid-battle due to either 1) making a poor choice regarding loadout or 2) overusing your weapons instead of using powers, (i.e. wasting ammo)... then you do still have other options to survive/complete the mission (melee, having your squad use their weapons more, etc.).  How tedious/restrictive the idea of conserving ammo becomes depends on how liberal the initial load outs are (that is, they don't have to be infinite to provide for enough ammo for even a lousy shooter to have enough to complete the mission).  Reducing loadout capacity could be one additional way to separate out increasing difficulty levels in the game.

 

As I said, I would prefer this system to a system with, essentially, infinite ammo and "bullet-sponge" enemies (particularly at higher difficulties)... since a smaller load out requires more changes to specific tactics rather than just lengthening the number of bullets (and consequently the length of time it takes) to bring down enemies.  Merely pausing a gun to cool down does not enhance the challenge in ME1... in fact, it gets easier and easier throughout the game in that the higher level weapons don't overheat as readily even without mods.

[Elhanan]

I'm not talking necessarily about getting in closer cloaked.  The enemy movements do change depending on where you position yourself and where you position the individual members of your squad.  Using your three positions, you can cause the enemy to flow into certain areas of the battlefield over the course of the battle... increasing the likelihood that ammo will be dropped in that area... where then, you can simply advance yourself into a position near that area and just collect that ammo as you advance. 
 
If there is no way that the enemy will block a retreat (i.e. a door that's likely to lock behind you), you can also sometimes do a tactical retreat that draws the enemies you're still fighting towards a location where you know you've left ammo you didn't previously need behind you.  In ME2, there are some missions where some of the placed ammo will automatically respawn if you engage in this sort of tactical advance and retreat tactic.  The Wrecked Merchant Freighter mission is one of these.
 
Other missions in ME2 are designed to be "low ammo" missions... where there is no or very limited placed ammo to gather and, frequently, enemies just won't drop that much ammo.  The idea on those missions then increase the challenge of them by potentially putting the player in a position where they will run out of ammo and have to resort to other tactics.  On those missions, one other tactic available to all classes that people can use to get through after running out of ammo is to repeatedly direct your squad to fire their weapons on particular enemies.  This increases the damage they can do to that enemy and they can do this even while powers are on cool down.

Sorry, but planned ammo re-spawns and the like are not an option on the first playthrough, if it is Blind. If tactics require a walkthrough, exploits, and the like to be successful, this might be a design in need of a fix. And to Bioware's credit, they did much of this in ME3.

Still not my fave games in the library, but both ME1 and ME3 are so much more enjoyable than ME2, IMO.

[DEUGH Man]

I want a game that feels like a Mass Effect game. I like how they basically allow you to have superpowers and guns without being as ridiculous as Call of Duty or Infamous. If they stay grounded and build upon they style they've made, then the game'll be fine.

[Sylvius the Mad]

With respect to MEA, weapons should be restricted in some manner if they have weapon classes. I would say that allowing the player to choose which weapon class they start with on non-combat classes wouldn't be a horrible idea, but they should not get to choose "all of the above" unless they are a soldier. Adept, Engineer, Sentinel one choice, unlock second later in the game. Vanguard and Infiltrator two.

As long as we get to choose, this would be fine.

[UpUpAway]

Sorry, but planned ammo re-spawns and the like are not an option on the first playthrough, if it is Blind. If tactics require a walkthrough, exploits, and the like to be successful, this might be a design in need of a fix. And to Bioware's credit, they did much of this in ME3.

Still not my fave games in the library, but both ME1 and ME3 are so much more enjoyable than ME2, IMO.

 

Sorry, a tactical retreat is definitely a warranted tactic on a first playthrough.  That the ammo respawns behind you to enable that tactic is something the developer has put in that location specifically because they know they've designed the battle and battlefield in such a way that the player can logically just decide to use a tactical retreat during the normal course of combat.  They could've have just as easily designed those missions to up the odds of enemies dropping more than enough ammo so that you will inevitably not be collecting it all as you advance (and perhaps it would have been a more realistic choice for them to have made).  It still holds, though, that even without respawning ammo, a tactical retreat to go back to pick up uncollected ammo that you seen dropped in a particular location is a very valid role play option under the circumstances (i.e. it's not metagaming) and it is an option that does not require you to feel like you're scouring the battlefield.

 

Use the suggestion if you want or don't... ME2 is what it is.

 

@Sylvius - and having the enemy sometimes cut off that tactical retreat is just "life" - then you adapt by going forward short on ammo.

[Pasquale1234]

The main issue here seems to be people stubbornly refusing to evaluate their tactics and change them when needed.

Or it could be that some people just aren't fond of game mechanics that enforce playstyle.

... or don't particularly enjoy trying to RP a character that doesn't seem to have the smarts to properly prepare for missions, and has to rely on enemy drops to survive.