23 respuestas en este tema

[planehazza]

I mean, he was always a selfish, sleasy politicain, but I always had him down as doing it for the greater good.  Him turning to work with TIM and Cerberus was a bit of a lazy, cliche bit of writing IMO.

 

Thoughts?

[Deathangel008]

i was just happy that i could finally kill him. never liked that guy.

 

sorry, no further thoughts on this topic.

[themikefest]

He did it out of desperation to get help for Earth. He's a good guy that cared about his species. I like that. Its too bad Shepard couldn't shoot him in the arm or shoulder instead of killing him.

[ArcadiaGrey]

Hmm....not so much.  Let's face it we all knew he was a snake.

 

I was more disappointed that it plays out the same way no matter what.  If you chose Anderson to run the council, if you saved the council, killed the council, were rude to Udina, nice to him....none of it matters.  That's worse for me.  In a world where you backed him from the get go, it would've been nice for him to confide in you or change his mind because he trusts Shepard.  

 

Maybe there were more options planned in the early days, but this is what happens when a game is rushed out and doesn't get the development time it deserves. 

[Fixers0]

Should you happen to live in the Mass Effect you'd better not become a politcian. As that usally means you're corrupt, greedy, inept, power-hungry or traitorous. If you aren't something bad will happen to you.

[Jukaga]

Yeah, the first time I played ME3 I felt his character had turned a corner. The conversation you have with him initially shows him in a new light then suddenly BAM! EVOL!

 

As a tangent it always bothered me that in ME2 and ME3 Udina/Anderson doesn't even sit with the council. In ME2 it's a video link and in ME3 Udina is there with you on the petitioner's pedastal. Are we part of the council or not?

[DeathScepter]

well it is one on a long list why ME3's story issues

[Fixers0]

 

As a tangent it always bothered me that in ME2 and ME3 Udina/Anderson doesn't even sit with the council. In ME2 it's a video link and in ME3 Udina is there with you on the petitioner's pedastal. Are we part of the council or not?

 

Yeah, It really is annoying how from ME2 onward the threw that subplot out of the window. It barely makes difference if the council lives or dies in ME3.

[gothpunkboy89]

But he wasn't evil. He was manipulated by TIM and Cerberus and then left holding the bag. Udina is actually a fairly tragic character.

[iM3GTR]

It's his plan that concerns me:

So he gets Cerberus, yes Cerberus (that's the Cerberus) to take over the whole Citadel. Then he'll have the other three councillors killed. And then he expects he'll be spared by Cerberus (You know who they are, right?) and actually trusts them...for some reason.

Then he expects Cerberus will sit there while he sends the Citadel fleet to earth. And all the other governments will be OK with that, and will never even bother to question Udina, and everyone else will ignore the fact that Cerberus own the Citadel now then send their fleets to attack Earth. And that's even before the crucible, the only means of actually defeating the reapers, is finished.

Then, when it doesn't work, he expects that he'll be able to shoot the Asari and Turian councillor, then Shepard, then his/her squad and all of C-Sec to escape.

[Barquiel]

I think that the entire premise behind the “coup” is somewhat moronic, but it doesn't bother me too much (and shooting him was rather satisfying). I mean, we’re talking about the same politician here who wanted to create an all-human council in ME1 just because the geth destroyed the Destiny Ascension. Udina was never the most reasonable character, imo. He expects the three council races to lockstep behind humanity if someone kills three glorified ambassadors, both in ME1 (renegade ending) and in ME3.

[Jukaga]

This is the Udina I wanted more of:

 

 

 

Sigh.

 

My favorite ME1 epilogue; Renegade Shepard but Saved the Council with Udina chosen. The feels are EPIC, it just really works.

 

Damnit now I want to start another ME1 run. Grrrr,

[gothpunkboy89]

It's his plan that concerns me:

So he gets Cerberus, yes Cerberus (that's the Cerberus) to take over the whole Citadel. Then he'll have the other three councillors killed. And then he expects he'll be spared by Cerberus (You know who they are, right?) and actually trusts them...for some reason.

Then he expects Cerberus will sit there while he sends the Citadel fleet to earth. And all the other governments will be OK with that, and will never even bother to question Udina, and everyone else will ignore the fact that Cerberus own the Citadel now then send their fleets to attack Earth. And that's even before the crucible, the only means of actually defeating the reapers, is finished.

Then, when it doesn't work, he expects that he'll be able to shoot the Asari and Turian councillor, then Shepard, then his/her squad and all of C-Sec to escape.

 

 

Who said anything about killing anyone? All he needs is their official support to send the Citadel Fleets with Earth Fleets to Earth. Once they retake it from the Reapers the rest of the Galaxy would support them as the fleets would grow as they liberate planet after planet.

 

No were does it even vaugly hint Udina planned to have anyone killed. And considering how Pro Human Cerberus is Udina trusting them at least that far isn't that far fetched.

[iM3GTR]

This is the Udina I wanted more of:





Sigh.

My favorite ME1 epilogue; Renegade Shepard but Saved the Council with Udina chosen. The feels are EPIC, it just really works.

Damnit now I want to start another ME1 run. Grrrr,

I prefer the paragon kill council Anderson chosen ending.

[iM3GTR]

Who said anything about killing anyone? All he needs is their official support to send the Citadel Fleets with Earth Fleets to Earth. Once they retake it from the Reapers the rest of the Galaxy would support them as the fleets would grow as they liberate planet after planet.

No were does it even vaugly hint Udina planned to have anyone killed. And considering how Pro Human Cerberus is Udina trusting them at least that far isn't that far fetched.

Ah, so you're saying after Cerberus takes over the seat of galactic government by killing thousands of civillians and half the police force, the Asari, Salarian and Turian fleets will listen to them and defeat the reapers without the superweapon that the game clearly says is the only way to stop the reapers. Right, I understand now.

[Cyberpunk]

Personally I was disappointed. But turning bad was not Bioware's mistake. Bioware shouldn't have made us kill him. He espoused a certain point of view that a lot of Renegade Shepard had. And a lot of players were on his side basically and were forced to kill him. 

[Reorte]

Yes, I was. He'd been portrayed before as a standard sleazy self-serving politician. ME3 was finally starting to give him a bit of depth, and to show some hints of why he was a very senior figure. When things were getting really tough he was starting to show a few signs of being human, and of being able to talk instead of talk down to Shepard and consider how to use his position as well as possible under the circumstances. The idea that he may have turned to Cerberus to achieve that may fit but it also turned him back into a one-dimensional baddy.

[Jukaga]

I prefer the paragon kill council Anderson chosen ending.

 

I've yet to see that one, do you have any pics or links?

[N7 Vindicator]

He did what he thought would help earth at the time since all other races refused to help. It is sad that we had to kill him because he had pretty much the same opinion about the council as I did

[DebatableBubble]

It was a really petty, fan service-y way to kill him off. Why make him a sympathetic character in the first two hours of the game only to say "lolfuckno"?

[gothpunkboy89]

Ah, so you're saying after Cerberus takes over the seat of galactic government by killing thousands of civillians and half the police force, the Asari, Salarian and Turian fleets will listen to them and defeat the reapers without the superweapon that the game clearly says is the only way to stop the reapers. Right, I understand now.

 

Yet to show how Udina was aware of any of this was going to happen.

[ModernAcademic]

I mean, he was always a selfish, sleasy politicain, but I always had him down as doing it for the greater good.  Him turning to work with TIM and Cerberus was a bit of a lazy, cliche bit of writing IMO.

 

Thoughts?

 

My guess is that he was working for an indoctrinated agent. Here are my reasons for thinking so:

 

 

Remember the VI on Ilos? He said the reason why the Protheans lost the war was because the Reapers used their indoctrinated agents to betray them. We know for a fact TIM is indoctrinated (the Prothean VI on Thessia). If he had contact with Udina - which we know he had -, then it's possible his influence changed Udina's mind.

 

We know the Reapers are VERY interested in harvesting not all the species of the galaxy, but the HUMANS. 

 

In ME2, we destroy the Human Reaper, proof of their exclusive interest in humanity. In ME1, Liara tells Shepard the humans are determined and are seen somewhat as aggressive by the other species because of how they don't hesitate to take something they want. So that places humanity amongst the future dominant species of the galaxy, even above the asari. No wonder the Reapers would target humans. Because they saw their potential to lead the galaxy one day, much like the Protheans once did. 

 

Therefore, they indoctrinated TIM, the greatest defender of humanity's interests and ensured their infiltration on humanity early on in the war. 

 

After the Reapers attacked Earth, TIM must have promised Udina support in retaking Earth and/or protecting the remainder of humanity in colonies spread throughout the galaxy. Since the Council was hesitant to help Earth, Udina allied with Cerberus in a desperate attempt to help his own species. And in doing so, became a tool for an indoctrinated agent without knowing.

 

Remember, it was Earth being attacked. And after the Reapers invaded the batarian homeworld, the first planet to fall, Udina must've concluded that would be Earth's fate, since, much like the batarian world, Earth didn't have allies to rely on for support.

 

 

 

In short, after the Council's early denial to help Earth, he thought humanity would have to stand alone. So he sought help from - or  was contacted by - a powerful, resourceful human-centric organisation.

[aoibhealfae]

There's not much story about him other than the small comic where Udina sent Bailey after Executor Palin who was investigating Udina. He didn't like Shepard from the beginning and there's barely any interaction in all three games. There's already a connection between Terra Firma party and Cerberus. You don't know Udina really well to know his true allegiance or his politics. But I start to question his personal motivation during the Post-Sacrifice Council scene, I felt his greed as he didn't hide his glee.

 

And I can't hide my glee that I block his dream job from him.

 

So I'm not really that surprised that he blew everything...

[andy6915]

So while it's not the purpose of this topic, I feel like going on a bit of a head-canon tangent. Specifically, I feel like having my next Shepard (not my current vanguard, I already know which Shepard will get the next trilogy playthrough) describe their early years. First off, she's a genius. Seriously. Despite odd moments of dialogue saying otherwise, she's smart as hell. Engineer. She was Earth Born. Designed and made her own omni-tool before she was even 10 years old because she couldn't afford her own, and she had a passion for omni-tools because she thought they were cool and pretty and her interest of them grew from there. She is a paragon Shepard, despite her rough start.

 

"I grew up without parents, really. Never knew my dad, and my mother died when I was 3 or 4. Mother barely had enough money to live on before she had me, and after she did... Well... She didn't have enough money to feed us both, so she rationed it. She gave me the majority of the food she could afford, barely leaving enough for herself as she worked countless hours in some crappy job that didn't even give a living wage. Even with government assistance, it wasn't enough. So she wasted away, slowly. One day she went to bed and just... Never woke up again. I got put in a foster care facility, but didn't stay for long. I didn't like it there, I wanted to go home. So in the middle of the night, still barely more than a toddler, I managed to sneak out and wander off. I didn't even know where I was, but I wanted to go home. But I ended up lost. Really lost. It seems the foster and government system lost track of me too, because they never managed to find me.

 

So a very young girl in one of the worst cities in the world with one of the highest crime rates in the world, lost and scared and hungry. But someone found me, eventually. I had been living in a cardboard box for a week or 2, when some older teens found me. They gave me some food and coaxed me into following them. They took me back to their "base" and introduced me. Turns out that they were a gang, the Tenth Street Reds. They took me in, maybe out of pity or sympathy. From there, I was actually raised by the gang. A petty criminal gang basically become my parent, who fed and clothed and guarded me. They even used me in some of their cons, using me as bait. A cute little innocent girl to play distraction while they robbed someone's pockets. I saw it as a game, I didn't really realize what I was doing. I was too young, too mentally undeveloped to know. All I knew about right and wrong was that wrong got you in trouble with cops and right meant you got away with it, which is basically how a gang sees things. As I got older, I took a more and more active role in such plans.

 

Around 6 years old I saw my first omni-tool. It was amazing to me. The glow, the way the part on the hand would spin, how it could do things that looked like magic tricks to me. I wanted one, I'd never wanted something more in my life. I begged to have one, but they kept saying I was too young. They said if I wanted one, I'd better make enough money to get my own. They jokingly said I should just make my own, if I wanted one so bad. I actually took that suggestion seriously, though not right away. A few years later I would go to a library a bit outside of my bad part of the city and look up omni-tools and how they worked, and then spent months scrounging around in dumpsters and trash dumps and recycling and refurbishing centers to find all the parts I could. I ended up doing what they mockingly suggested, I built my own omni-tool. They were amazed, they couldn't believe that an 8 year old girl was smart enough and resourceful enough to build my own omni-tool, and a relatively decent quality one at that. Looking back, that was pretty amazing. I doubt even most Quarians learn how to make their own omni-tool before they even hit puberty, let alone an Earth kid with zero education.

 

Speaking of education, I did have a very curious mind. I often went back to that library to read, it was one of my few pleasures. Not just typical kids books either. Mathematics books, physics, and especially engineering and mechanical books. Some history. You name it. It's how I managed to have a passing level of knowledge despite never being enrolled in even basic public education. Still, I read fiction too. It's actually how I started to develop an actual sense of right and wrong. Like Thane said about disconnection between soul and body, my soul never really chose to be a petty criminal. I was raised by petty criminals, from an age where I all my views on right and wrong were shaped by said criminals. But in those books, thieves were the bad guys and cops were the good guys. Those books showed me how things getting stolen hurts the person that was stolen from. It made me think about how devastated I would be if someone ever stole my precious omni-tool. Those books had made knowledge of right and wrong, and empathy, to sprout in my mind. I finally started to see that stealing hurt people, it wasn't just a fun game that got you easy money.

 

Life wasn't easy. You had to earn your keep in the gang. You had to make money if you wanted to eat. I mostly relied on petty stealing, either directly from people as a pickpocket or breaking into their car or even hacking a few ATM machines (made easy with my omni-tool). There was also gang violence. Sometimes p*ssing off someone in even your own gang could get dangerous. I had a knife and even a gun drawn on me more than once. I even had to go through 2 rape attempts, though neither actually ended badly since my omni-tool had attack programs installed. One minute you're trying to pin a 13 year old girl down, the next minute your face had third degree burns because of me activating a flame attack from my omni-tool (not incinerate, not military grade power, but certainly enough to leave permanent burn scars). That was actually useful, because it cemented me as someone not to f*ck with. People either respected me or had a healthy amount of fear of what would happen to them if they pushed me, everyone knew me as the genius girl with a homemade omni-tool that could really mess you up and I wasn't afraid to use it. There was also gang violence worries about other gangs, sometimes gangs would attack each other. It never became a gang war, but it did sometimes get ugly.

 

As for why I kept stealing after starting to realize it was wrong, I had no choice. Like I said, I needed to eat. I needed to survive. There was the option of prostitution once I hit puberty, but I didn't want to. I didn't like the idea, I found the idea of stealing from people as less detestable than the idea of that. Even if stealing left a bad taste in my mouth, I still preferred that over literally selling myself. Not to mention I knew about STDs, I knew enough girls in that line of work to know that sometimes you caught permanent stuff from it. You could say it was selfish to choose hurting others with my stealing over hurting myself, but I don't think anyone can really fault me for that choice.

 

I did try to wean off of my criminal life though. Once I was old enough I started working some crappy fast food job. It wasn't easy to get, no resume and no education and being young and having no experience. Criminal connections too of course, but they didn't know that. I didn't actually have a criminal history legally speaking, so they didn't know about that. I still stuck with the gang though, it's where I lived after all. I was homeless besides the run down abandoned building they used as a home, I had no where else to go. When I was 17, browsing the extranet, I learned that the Alliance actually hires based on aptitude and skills and didn't really care about education level if you proved yourself. So I began studying all I could, more than ever before. I was going to that library I mentioned earlier a couple times a week. I wanted out of this hellhole of a life. Having to steal from people despite my own moral code detesting it, having to deal with petty and violent people as my only social connections, being forced to live on what I could scrounge up, worrying about gang violence, having to worry about actually getting arrested some day. I saw the Alliance as an escape. But also, I saw it as a redemption. I never seriously hurt someone who didn't deserve it, but I had made lives worse. I wanted to save someone for every parent who I stole from around Christmas time who might not have been able to give their own kids a gift because I took all their money, every person who had to replace their car's stereo system, every store that had to make up for lost goods because I shoplifted something. I wanted to finally give back to the galaxy, since all I'd ever done is take from it.

 

And I did. I saved an entire colony just a few years into my military career, saved more people in that one event than I ever stole from in my youth. If you're wondering how my acceptance into the Alliance went, it was surprisingly smooth. They were a bit wary of taking a chance on me, since I ended up having to divulge my checkered past. But they gave me a chance. Them learning I had an IQ of 185 at only 18 was probably the thing that really made them decide they absolutely had to recruit me, they went from being highly doubting to practically begging me to join up. Though they did make me take their test twice under close observation the second time, just to make sure I wasn't somehow cheating or skewing the results. They just couldn't believe an 18 year old kid raised in a gang who lacked even basic education could have an IQ that high. As for me, I didn't even know it was that high. I thought of myself as smart, but I didn't realize I was that smart. I think I didn't realize because I never went to school, I was never able to compare myself to similarly aged peers in an academic setting. Based on my aptitude scores, it was decided I was best for a combat or commanding role despite my extremely high IQ scores, instead of something like comm specialist or other non-combat roles in the Alliance. Still, my high IQ meant they wanted me in an officer role, so they gave me a full scholarship and fully paid for my enrolling into an officer academy. I think I might be the only person in the galaxy who has gone through college but doesn't even have a high school degree, I'm pretty sure that's unheard of.

 

As for my omni-tool? I still have it. I never got rid it. Well, sorta. Its insides have been changed out dozens of times, as I've updated it and improved it. Any time I got a new omni-tool that was better than it, like the old Savant X's, I'd cannibalize it and use their parts in my own. Even its shell has had to be changed over time, since an omni-tool that fit on an 8 year old's arm won't really fit an adult. Still, I've never used a store-bought omni-tool. Any time I buy one, I'm basically buying it just so I can take it apart and add its superior parts to my own. I daresay it's better than any omni-tool on the market, I've compared it to the Sophist X (the next generation omni-tool after the Savant's, developed and released while I was dead) omni-tool of the Serris Council manufacturers and found them lacking compared to my own. It somehow managed to actually survive my death, I had it equipped as usual the day I died. It's the same one, it was exactly how I left it. Internally, anyway. I made sure, I completely dismantled it to make sure it was mine, and it was. Granted, the casing was new. Makes sense, it was probably cracked and fractured during my planetary entry after the Normandy blew up. But the "guts" of it? Unchanged. Clearly Cerberus made sure to not mess with it, they did just enough to fix the damage and that was it. I am glad, losing something I made when I was 8 and have used for basically my entire life would have felt like losing a limb.