84 réponses à ce sujet

[Catilina]

That's basically why I wound up liking James Vega so much.

James Vega lacks trust in himself. Whiny? No. Still Shepard need to support him.

[Medhia_Nox]

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That's why I said "do that offline".

Front Line night patrols are done in absolute silence. So is when your mission objective is to slit throats of sleeping enemy troops.

 

But you can go ahead and be cavalier about it.

 

Bioware has represented - at best - mercenaries and more to the point marauding adventurers that slaughter and pillage on a whim.

 

There is nothing "military" about Shepard... he doesn't take orders.  He's given some fantasy position so the player doesn't have to experience what life is actually like as a soldier because a vast majority of gamers would not appreciate the rigors of that lifestyle if they were actually represented. 

 

And like I said - there's no roleplaying during the combat obstacle courses - Bioware's version of "Front Line Night Patrols".  It's just mindless, moronic combat where digital figures slaughter other digital figures without even a shred of effect on the psyche.  Another thing woefully missing from these childish representations of combat. 

 

All "roleplaying" IS already done "offline" - so I'm not sure what your point is.

 

This is why movies and games are - for the most part - entertainment and not art... they represent combat and killing as fun and exciting... they do not, at all, represent it like those who experience it in real life do... because then it's considered "whining".

[SKAR]

Agreed.

[iM3GTR]

Whiny is a word I dislike to the point where someone who complains about it, sounds like they are whining. Overused in the majority of situations.

I agree. It comes a third place behind the words "butthurt" and "fanboy" when it comes to most irritating words used in internet arguments.

[frylock23]

 

I think it would be boring. All you companion are strong enough, and have some personal or other problem. He help you, you help him. It's okay, is not it?

 

I think having one like this would be fine. It would be different as opposed to all of them having unresolved daddy issues like they did in ME2.

 

Or wouldn't it be interesting if when you chose which gender you decided to play (M/F) the other one became that companion role. In other words, it would be like a subordinate to the PC. That would mean that BioWare would have to have to alternate PCs and not one who could be either male or female, but a male one and a female one though with slightly different scripts for each role depending on which the player chose to run.

[KaiserShep]

James Vega lacks trust in himself. Whiny? No. Still Shepard need to support him.

 

 

From what I remember, the only thing Vega was really uncertain about was whether or not join the N7 program, which is understandable. Other than that, Vega just needed to be tempered in his desire to hurry back to earth. I don't remember him needing support in anything really. 

[SKAR]

From what I remember, the only thing Vega was really uncertain about was whether or not join the N7 program, which is understandable. Other than that, Vega just needed to be tempered in his desire to hurry back to earth. I don't remember him needing support in anything really.

We did support him in the N7 decision. After fehl prime he was shaky about being a leader again. We helped him there too.

[KaiserShep]

We did support him in the N7 decision. After fehl prime he was shaky about being a leader again. We helped him there too.

 

 

Fair enough, but I think that Vega was a pretty light character regardless of this. He handled losing his entire squad better than a lot of other characters might've. 

[SKAR]

Fair enough, but I think that Vega was a pretty light character regardless of this. He handled losing his entire squad better than a lot of other characters might've.

you should watch the movie, might change your mind.

[Hammerstorm]

Agreed.

 

Welcome back from the dead!! 

[Kabooooom]

Way way to many games that embrace the "hero aspect" above all else already.

Agreed. And honestly, a "reluctant hero" who has character flaws and is not, by himself, innately heroic - but rises to become a hero under the right circumstances/unexpected trials is FAR more interesting of a character and far more interesting from a story standpoint. Compared to someone who is innately a badass from the get go, I mean.

Those are the type of heroes I find interesting, because they are reflective of reality. I firmly believe that anyone can be a hero in the right circumstances, even the biggest ***** among us.

[Deebo305]

Big damn heroes, even.

[img[https://s-media-cach...8b5a53742ef.jpg[/img]

[SKAR]

Welcome back from the dead!!

Thanks fam. Mods finally caught on. It's all good. I'm trying to not let people get under my skin anymore.

[Helios969]

Pay really close to the conversations around you over the next week or so and you will find half of it revolves around "whining" about one thing or another.  The best I can figure it's whining if you find the person annoying and venting if you like the individual.

[Sartoz]

Bioware has represented - at best - mercenaries and more to the point marauding adventurers that slaughter and pillage on a whim.

 

There is nothing "military" about Shepard... he doesn't take orders.  He's given some fantasy position so the player doesn't have to experience what life is actually like as a soldier because a vast majority of gamers would not appreciate the rigors of that lifestyle if they were actually represented. 

 

And like I said - there's no roleplaying during the combat obstacle courses - Bioware's version of "Front Line Night Patrols".  It's just mindless, moronic combat where digital figures slaughter other digital figures without even a shred of effect on the psyche.  Another thing woefully missing from these childish representations of combat. 

 

All "roleplaying" IS already done "offline" - so I'm not sure what your point is.

 

This is why movies and games are - for the most part - entertainment and not art... they represent combat and killing as fun and exciting... they do not, at all, represent it like those who experience it in real life do... because then it's considered "whining".

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Fair enough. 

[Seraphim24]

Two issues. Assuming we accept your premise how can we show these characters as strong without undermining the protagonist? I don't agree with your assessment of Ashley and Kaiden. They both whine. Ashley about Alliance politics, and Kaidan about about the Council. Is it not a whine if it isn't about their deep seated emotional issues?

 

Strong protagonists have strong friends, I think those things go together.

 

Ashley and Kaidan, aren't as as bad as Jack.

[Catilina]

Strong protagonists have strong friends, I think those things go together.

[...]

Why? This is not a logical correlation... 

[Seraphim24]

Why? This is not a logical correlation...

 

People often find themselves surrounded by people who are like them, not, unlike them.

[Catilina]

People often find themselves surrounded by people who are like them, not, unlike them.

But people chooses friends not because they are strong enough. Important example the field of interest...

[Remix-General Aetius]

What the heck are characters supposed to talk about for hours on end? 

 

The newest d..........nah nevermind.

[Sartoz]

Pay really close to the conversations around you over the next week or so and you will find half of it revolves around "whining" about one thing or another.  The best I can figure it's whining if you find the person annoying and venting if you like the individual.

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So, if a person whines / bitches about sex, then have a good comeback like "Having sex is like playing bridge. If you don't have a good partner, you'd better have a good hand."

 

But your'e right. My friends and I are FIFA EURO FOOTBALL fans.... oh, how the British press excoriated the ENGLAND's manager and players! Yep.. I'm hearing the whinning constantly.

[Cz-99]

The ME series is my favorite adult babysitter simulator.

 

On the more Sirius side, I just want characters who are interesting. Don't really care how heroic they are, if at all.

[EpicNewb]

All the characters are brave imo

[Annos Basin]

I play games for sensitive and fragile characters, to be honest. But it's not like I enjoy stories about people who can't get things done. So I'll be wishywashy with this topic. Anyway, everyone has their own standards on what they think are understandable (or even endearing) signs of weakness, and what's considered grating or worse. Each country and culture and subgroup tends to have their own rules about what kind of weakness is acceptable - and hopefully so do different alien cultures and we're gonna see some further conflicts stemming from that (not outright wars necessarily, but tension and plotlines/scenes and banter...)

 

Or if this is about how multifaceted team we're going to get, I'd go with one where almost everyone openly disagrees on something. I find "strong" groups like krogans or qunari just nightmarish.

 

Pretty much everyone in reality has some problems, so it just feels like you don't get to know a character very well, or the story begins to feel childish (which can still be very entertaining though) if you never learn about any of them. On the other hand it gets one-note if they got nothing else than that problem in their lives, and that's the point a game may start to feel like a therapist simulator. (Mordin is my favorite. He has amazingly big events and intense feelings going on in his life and mind, and loads of other things on top of that. He's warm and good ally but not dependant on you. And he can be determinded, and may get a scene where he falters but that's not forced on you and doesn't define him.)

 

Speaking of heroes, I'm not usually fan of too strong ones, heroic nor dark, but who I really like is Optimus Prime from G1-verse. (Hahah! Yes.) He's such bleeding heart, who hugs everyone and plays basketball with his subordinates, but still looks (and sounds) as cool as anyone can be in so badly animated cartoon when he shoots enemies and snarks at them (or occasionally snarks at human technology because lol). His team is made of everyday transforming robots who just try to defend themselves, while evil decepticons are war machines, who wage tyranny or live under it. Then again decepticons are very popular among fans so it's not like evil wouldn't sell, regardless what I think about that personally. But by the way, here you can get an example of how the evil side can be whinier... Determined(=blockheaded) to the fault they are, but hardly happy. Maybe fans find that human?

 

You know what? Maybe we need whinier villains? And epic satisfying battles against them.

[Blueblood]

Whining and moaning should be kept in the bedroom. La de da.

Anyway, as someone pointed out, 'heroic' is quite common. But you know, it would be quite interesting if Ryder or the villain threw a tantrum whenever they lost a fight or something (which won't happen often if Ryder is a hero) and then went back to their cabin and thrashed around on their bed. No, that came out wrong. I mean thrash around on their own. And on their own beds. And cry into their pillows or something.