9 ответов в этой теме

[ottffsse]

For players thinking of party composition. This is just a quick breakdown, it mainly becomes important if you are thinking of a nightmare+all trials run and how to optimize your four member party composition or if you are considering soloing and want to quickly check on a specs strengths and weakness.

 

Damage + offensive prowess 

 

 

A: god tier, B: very good tier, C: not the specializations strength

 

single target:

 

A list:

Assassin, Artificer

 

B list:

Reaver, Tempest* 

 

*Temepst in Class A for short flask of fire burst.

 

C list: (mediocre)

everything else

 

AOE damage:

 

A list:

Artificer, Assasin (with walking bomb or explode on kill masterwork), Mine-bomb Necromancer

 

B list:

Templar, Rift Mage, Inferno KE

 

C list:

everything else

 

 

Support, and crowd Control

 

A list:

Rift mage

 

B list:

Templar, Necromancer

 

KE (somewhere between B and C), Tempest with flask of frost

 

C:

everything else

 

 

Survivability:

(under extreme circumstances and without cheese like barrier amulet or heal on hit tricks)

 

A list:

Champion

 

B list:

KE, other S+S warrior specializations than champion

 

B-C:

Tempest, archer rogues if you are careful

 

C:

Everything else

 

Corrections, comments and thoughts welcome. 

[draken-heart]

Interesting. Good thoughts.

[PapaCharlie9]

Excellent! Plenty to argue about here!

I have to disagree with Tempest being B list for single target. It should be A list. At sufficiently high crit/crit, Flask of Flame + Killer's Alchemy + Ride The Storm enables spamming Throwing Blades/Precision Targeting with Hidden Blades procs. Because that damage stacks, after 3 or 4 consecutive TB uses, the damage becomes god level. Here's a video that shows it in action, gear is listed in second half of video:



This is not an optimal build by any means. Notice that this build only has one Hidden Blades Masterwork, instead of two, so not even optimal FT Masterworks. Also, the Flask of Lightning that he starts the attack with is purely for the Ride The Storm buff to Flask of Flame, but he could have also taken a healing potion or a Mighty Offense tonic for additional Killer's Alchemy buffs, not to mention the MO buff itself.

Tempest Archer also benefits from Flask of Flame + Leaping Shot, though it's harder to stack damage since you get farther and farther from the target with each shot. If you interleave Hook&Tackle with Leaping Shot on Flask of Flame, you might get closer to the TB god level. Though admittedly, never as good as Artificer's Hail of Arrows.

--------

For Survivability, I'd put any Winter mage in at least B level. Ice Armor fueled by Ice Mine/Chilling Array gives you 50% damage reduction indefinitely. The Ice Mines also protect the mage from melee attacks, particularly one-hit kills from stealth DW enemies.

[Bigdawg13]

Kind of surprised KE isn't up there with Champion for survival.  Wasn't too long ago they were the cheese-queens of playing the game blind-folded, drunk, and with your feet and never dying.  Did the nerf hit them that badly?

 

I do agree with PapaCharlie9 that Tempest should be A-grade for single-target damage. 

 

Also a bit surprised that Assassin beats out Rift Mage and KE for AoE damage potential.  Mage non-specialization trees by themselves put them beyond most rogues.  The only reason I would even half-believe Artificer should be up there is how they can spam their elemental mines.  And even that is hit-and-miss on nightmare with resistances what they are.  Sure there is leaping shot, but where it really shines if if you can hit a single large target with most of your leaping shot attacks.   Mages have lightning cage, lightning bolt, fire mine (with either toggle is amazing AoE damage), wall of fire, blizzard (*cough* ok ignore that one), Chain Lightning, etc.  The list goes on.

[PapaCharlie9]

Kind of surprised KE isn't up there with Champion for survival.  Wasn't too long ago they were the cheese-queens of playing the game blind-folded, drunk, and with your feet and never dying.  Did the nerf hit them that badly?
 
I do agree that PapaCharlie9 that Tempest should be A-grade for single-target damage. 
 
Also a bit surprised that Assassin beats out Rift Mage and KE for AoE damage potential.  Mage non-specialization trees by themselves put them beyond most rogues.  The only reason I would even half-believe Artificer should be up there is how they can spam their elemental mines.  And even that is hit-and-miss on nightmare with resistances what they are.  Sure there is leaping shot, but where it really shines if if you can hit a single large target with most of your leaping shot attacks.   Mages have lightning cage, lightning bolt, fire mine (with either toggle is amazing AoE damage), wall of fire, blizzard (*cough* ok ignore that one), Chain Lightning, etc.  The list goes on.

I'm okay with Champion being A and KE being B. KE's barrier regen wasn't nerfed directly, but Trials introduced the Barrier Breaker trait on promoted enemies. KE suffers against those guys. Plus, Walking Fortress comes in very handy against specific DLC bosses, like the Titan in Descent. Being resistant to stagger and knockdown makes a huge difference in those boss battles.

Assassin beats Rift Mage because of the FT masterworks mentioned. Put those on top of the force multiplier of Mark of Death and you gets stupidly high AoE. Granted, you have to have a very optimized Assassin build to make the most of it. And it's kind of a one-trick pony.

Artificer is indeed about elemental AND trap spamming, but the more important point is that you can spam those abilities because of Leaping Shot + Looked Like It Hurt + high crit and/or Fallback Plan to reset cooldowns. All of that synergizes to make Artificer stupidly good at AoE damage, because all abilities are up almost all the time.

Here's a video showing some mob battles, skip ahead to 5:45. Notice my stamina and cooldowns are rarely a controlling factor. Settings are set to only show my damage, so all the numbers you see are strictly Artificer damage.

[ottffsse]

Tempest is somewhere between A and B for single target damage. The problem is Artificer and Assassin set the bar so high there that it is just ridiculous, and with Tempest, you still need that focus ability for the really BIG burst, and sometimes you have focus and sometimes you don't. 

 

EDIT: yeah, with that fire flask upgrade and throwing blades spam Tempest is basically Class A. Assassin and Artificer can keep the high single target dps  longer and more consistently than a Tempest which rellies on a flask of fire burst, but the Tempest as seen in the video above does so much damage in the burst that it can take out any single target pretty fast as an assassin or artificer. Put against multiple enemies artificer will have the edge because of consistent damage output. 

 

BASE LINE: Assassin and artificer damage output over a stretch of time is more than Tempest, but Tempest deals so much dps that in game terms it probably does not matter as there are no single foes in the game can withstand the short burst that Tempest is capable of. 

 

My rationality for KE at B for survivability is that indeed there are now promoted enemies with barrier breaker/ dispel in walk softly. And mages without barrier are...squishy, they just can't take a beating like a warrior champion and once barrier is gone you can potentially go down like a fly.

 

I may promote TEMPEST to B list for cc/utility though as flask of frost+lightning has some great battlefield control uses. 

 

And yeah, an optimized assassin with chose masterworks will do great aoe damage...anywhere from 7K-30K walking bomb tics + explosion or the occasional mark of death. But maybe I will downgrade assassin to B list there, Artificer and the Mine-bombmancer are better at aoe damage as those are still more "consistent" than the assassin with those masterworks. And Yeah artificer can just spam anything they need, single target or aoe. 

[Bigdawg13]

I've got to see a video showing the Assassin AoE potential. Sounds delicious! 

[Brother Juniper]

I've got to see a video showing the Assassin AoE potential. Sounds delicious! 

 

I don't know of a video, but actionhero112 put us all on to this: "On death: Target explodes for 75% of weapon damage) Perfect for Rogues. Wait, so you take 75 % of my killing blow and apply it in an AoE around the target? Amazing."

[Bigdawg13]

I don't know of a video, but actionhero112 but us all on to this: "On death: Target explodes for 75% of weapon damage) Perfect for Rogues. Wait, so you take 75 % of my killing blow and apply it in an AoE around the target? Amazing."

Wait...does it take 75% of weapon damage or skill damage? Like if my dagger has a base damage of 100 but I kill a target with a skill that does 200% damage, does walking bomb do 75 damage or 150? If my killing blow was a crit does the walking bomb auto crit?

[ottffsse]

Wait...does it take 75% of weapon damage or skill damage? Like if my dagger has a base damage of 100 but I kill a target with a skill that does 200% damage, does walking bomb do 75 damage or 150? If my killing blow was a crit does the walking bomb auto crit?

It should do 75% of the final ability damage (the actual hit) of the killing blow. That is why rogues with those 2 masterworks (they can be stacked btw) can also do great aoe damage while carving up single targets. Just play with friendly fire off hint hint.

In reality walking bomb masterwork is better than explode on kill though first because it applies a dot at full hit %, rate if it is a 100% masterwork and second because for some reason explode on kill was buggy for me at times in tests and would not apply the full expected damage consistently. I would sometimes get closer to 35% then 75% etc which was weird.