29 réponses à ce sujet

[Monty0918]

Can someone clarify a few things for me? Im confused about this quest. If corrypheus can imitate the calling why did he need the nightmare to do it for him? Just how much control does he have on grey wardens and why was it that only the mages who were summonint the demons became controled? Were they controled by corrypheus or the nightmare? If corrypheus can possess the wardens why would he need a demon army at all. Also when the divine was being held while he attempted the anchor ritual it was warden mages. Why only mages?

[nightscrawl]

I didn't think it was portrayed as Nightmare doing the imitation of the Calling? Now I'm confused on that point, as well.

 

He doesn't actually have "control" over the wardens. They are being manipulated through the false Calling into thinking that all wardens will die and there will be no wardens left to be the protector of Thedas against the Blight. They made a choice, on their own, to follow along with Erimond's plan. The false Calling was simply the tool that goaded them into it.

 

It was only mages because they are the ones whom are able to be controlled in such a manner, because of the very nature of being a mage and having that connection to the Fade. Sure, you can summon a demon into a non-mage, but a mage is the better vessel.

 

The demons were controlled by Nightmare.

 

Erimond explains why they need a demon army in that one scene if you ask him. Demons need no food, no rest, no healing. They will just go on forever until they are destroyed.

 

Spoiler

Corypheus doesn't possess warden en masse; he body hops when his current form is destroyed, similar to an Archdemon if there is not a warden around to deliver the final killing blow. Not sure if you've played that far yet, but you see this in the final mission of the game.

 

I'll assume that he used warden mages with the Divine for the same reason that the Herald uses mages (or templars) when closing the rift at Haven; their power is used to magnify Corypheus's own. If it was a blood ritual, it could be that magical blood is more potent than non-magical blood.

[Captain Wiseass]

My understanding is this:

 

Corypheus's ability to mimic the Calling doesn't give him absolute control over Wardens' minds, at least not on the scale he wants. Note that in Legacy, he was only able to influence those Wardens who got close to him, and that was a thousand years ago, before he was put to sleep and woken up by Hawke. Even when making every Warden in Orlais feel the call (which he needed the Nightmare's help to even do), he still can't command them. So if he wants a Warden army bound to his will, he needs to up his game.

 

That's where the binding ritual comes in. The exact mechanics aren't clear, but my guess is that the demons summoned are subservient to the Nightmare, and have been ordered to obey Corypheus after they take over the Wardens. (The Nightmare is fine with this, because it gets to feast on all the fear Corypheus will inevitably create.) But the demons can only be bound to mages; that seems to be a constant throughout the setting (the templars in the DA2 quest Enemies Among Us being a notable exception, but they were on a steady diet of lyrium). So it's an all-mage army, but Corypheus wouldn't have a problem with that. And he started all this before the Conclave, which is why he had mage slaves while doing the ritual with the Divine.

 

And now everyone can come in and tell me what I got wrong.

[thats1evildude]

Corypheus ISN'T the source of the false Calling. That's Nightmare's doing, albeit at Corypheus' behest.

 

Yes, Corypheus can subtly influence the minds of Wardens, but only in close proximity. To do that for the hundreds of Wardens scattered throughout Orlais, Ferelden and the Free Marches, he needed the help of Nightmare, who feeds on the fear of the Blight.

[Xerrai]

Not really sure my answer is the right one but i'll give my views.

[...] If corrypheus can imitate the calling why did he need the nightmare to do it for him?

I was under the impression that while Corypheaus could create a fake calling, it was no where near the scale required to influence the wardens all over the south. So he needed an amplifier.

Just as red lyrium increased his magic power tenfold, he used the Nightmare--a demon that feeds on the fear of the blight--to increase the fake calling to an exponential level.

 

Just how much control does he have on grey wardens and why was it that only the mages who were summonint the demons became controlled? Were they controlled by coryphaeus or the nightmare?

Well if the dialogue is to be believed, once the mage wardens successfully complete the ritual to bind a demon, they become a slave to Coryphaeus.

 

This ritual was supplied by Erimond, so the mechanics were never fully explained. But it is important to note that even after the Nightmare's banishment, grey warden mages are still found in Corypheaus's ranks. I can't see the freed warden mages willingly following a tainted magister, so all that leaves is the possibility that they are not choosing to follow him. Slaves.

 

So it seems it is Corypheaus, not the Nightmare, that controls the Grey Warden mages--and he can control them rather soundly. In fact I would even suggest that he might have complete control over them.

 

[...] If corrypheus can possess the wardens why would he need a demon army at all. Also when the divine was being held while he attempted the anchor ritual it was warden mages. Why only mages?

The demon army is not so much for possession so much as they are to increase the size of his forces. As Erimond explains at the western approach, they are an army that could never have the need to sleep, eat or question orders. A demon army would be an ideal force to send out if you wanted to conquer all of the known world...

 

Durring the ritual at the conclave, where the Divine was slated to be sacrificed, one can assume that mages were chosen because they could amplify Cory's power. This is something that the Inquisitor him/herself can do if she chose the mage route to close the breach--the mages allow the Inquisitor to draw upon their will/power to greatly amplify the powers of the anchor.

[Monty0918]

The whole calling things make sense but im still confused at why only the mages could be controlled and why they only became controlled after doing the ritual. So the warden mage would sacrafice a warden and summon a demon in that wardens place than all of a sudden become controlled by corrypheus? Dosnt make sense. It would make sense if they were controlled by nightmare because nightmare was controlling th demon they summoned

[Fiery Phoenix]

The whole calling things make sense but im still confused at why only the mages could be controlled and why they only became controlled after doing the ritual. So the warden mage would sacrafice a warden and summon a demon in that wardens place than all of a sudden become controlled by corrypheus? Dosnt make sense. It would make sense if they were controlled by nightmare because nightmare was controlling th demon they summoned

Don't put too much thought into it. The ending parts, especially Cory-what's-his-face and his motivations, were nonsensical and laughably executed.

[nightscrawl]

The whole calling things make sense but im still confused at why only the mages could be controlled and why they only became controlled after doing the ritual. So the warden mage would sacrafice a warden and summon a demon in that wardens place than all of a sudden become controlled by corrypheus? Dosnt make sense. It would make sense if they were controlled by nightmare because nightmare was controlling th demon they summoned

They are controlled by Nightmare. Nightmare is controlling the demons.
 
Only mages can be controlled -- in this case, it's just easier to use mage, even a cat can be possessed by a demon -- because they have a stronger connection to the Fade and are more susceptible to demonic possession. The mage is using his own power to bind himself to the demon. A non-mage can't do that. The warden mages do this of their own free will because they believe the false Calling and the lies Erimond has fed them.
 
In that scene with Erimond, a non-mage warden (wearing a breastplate) is killed to fuel a blood magic ritual. The power from the blood magic ritual summons a rage demon (fiery dude). The mage warden then binds the demon to himself and is then controlled by Nightmare, with Erimond as a proxy. In this case, both the mage warden and demon are controlled.

[Monty0918]

Okay so with nightmare dead than no warden mages are controlled? But someone said even afterwards they still are in corrypheus possesion..

[Donquijote and 59 others]

Corypheus ISN'T the source of the false Calling. That's Nightmare's doing, albeit at Corypheus' behest.

 

Yes, Corypheus can subtly influence the minds of Wardens, but only in close proximity. To do that for the hundreds of Wardens scattered throughout Orlais, Ferelden and the Free Marches, he needed the help of Nightmare, who feeds on the fear of the Blight.

Corypheus taught to the nightmare demon how to do the calling?

Thedas is over now we have an unkillable archdemon in the fade

[Captain Wiseass]

Okay so with nightmare dead than no warden mages are controlled? But someone said even afterwards they still are in corrypheus possesion..

The Nightmare isn't dead. Defeating its avatar in the boss fight weakened it enough for the companions to escape, but even then, someone had to stay behind to hold it off long enough for the others to escape.

[fhs33721]

Okay so with nightmare dead than no warden mages are controlled? But someone said even afterwards they still are in corrypheus possesion..

The Nightmare isn't dead. No matter what you do it always survives Dragon age Inquisition. You just disrupt it's fake calling and stop it's demon summoning plan at adamant. Not that you could kill it at all, since it is a demon and demons can't really die. At best you can kill them temporarily, just for them to reform after some time.

[thats1evildude]

Corypheus taught to the nightmare demon how to do the calling?

As a powerful demon that feeds on fear of the Blight, it likely always had that ability.

[Heimdall]

As a powerful demon that feeds on fear of the Blight, it likely always had that ability.

Maybe, but as a demon it has no connection to the Blight. I imagine Cory, who can use both Fade and Blight magic, still at least had to be a conduit for the false Calling.

[Monty0918]

Makes a little more sense i guess. So how did escaping the fade at adamant stop the nightmares demon army? Because erimond was caught? Or because they closed thay particular fade rift/weakened nightmare. It would make more sense if the mages werent under cory's control after nightmare was weakened. I still dont get how the mages at the conclave were under his control. Also how did the explosion at the conclave happen exactly? The inquisitor touched the orb and harnessed the anchor but than what?

[Heimdall]

Makes a little more sense i guess. So how did escaping the fade at adamant stop the nightmares demon army? Because erimond was caught? Or because they closed thay particular fade rift/weakened nightmare. It would make more sense if the mages werent under cory's control after nightmare was weakened. I still dont get how the mages at the conclave were under his control. Also how did the explosion at the conclave happen exactly? The inquisitor touched the orb and harnessed the anchor but than what?

Erimond was trying to summon the Nightmare into the physical world and have more warden mages sacrifice the non-mages to summon the demons. We stopped him from summoning the Nightmare, which would have made the demon army unstoppable, and revealed his plan to the wardens before more were sacrificed. Corypheus still has some mages, but we stopped the demon army from becoming a true threat.

The explosion was always going to happen when the orb was unlocked, though Corypheus probably didn't know that. Solas meant it to kill him.

[Dai Grepher]

Cory was working with the Nightmare. Cory provided it with fresh fears to feed from, and the Nightmare was able to reach all the Wardens in the South thanks to knowledge Cory gave it about the Calling. Basically, Cory taught it to mimic the Calling so that all the Wardens would think their time had come all at once.

The Nightmare was also meant to lead the demon army.

[fhs33721]

Maybe, but as a demon it has no connection to the Blight. I imagine Cory, who can use both Fade and Blight magic, still at least had to be a conduit for the false Calling.

I don't think the Nightmare is literailly using Blight-related magic. More something along the lines of: Since the greatest fear of many grey Wardens is the calling and the Nighmare is basically an eldritch abomination of fear it can project a extremely authentic fake version of the calling into the heads of grey wardens without any actual blight being involved.

[Heimdall]

I don't think the Nightmare is literailly using Blight-related magic. More something along the lines of: Since the greatest fear of many grey Wardens is the calling and the Nighmare is basically an eldritch abomination of fear it can project a extremely authentic fake version of the calling into the heads of grey wardens without any actual blight being involved.

I'm skeptical. Legacy indicated that Cory had the power to 'speak' through the Blight. I'd be very surprised if that power wasn't at play here.

[thats1evildude]

Maybe, but as a demon it has no connection to the Blight.

It doesn't need to. Nightmare just mimicked the Calling.

[Heimdall]

It doesn't need to. Nightmare just mimicked the Calling.

The Calling speaks to the Wardens through their connection to the Bloght. Mimicking the Calling isn't very useful if it can't access the medium through which to broadcast it.

[fhs33721]

The Calling speaks to the Wardens through their connection to the Bloght. Mimicking the Calling isn't very useful if it can't access the medium through which to broadcast it.

It doesn't have to speak through the connection to the blight. It just has to project "constant madening whispering into the wardens head". Wether it does so via actual blight or via its inherent demonic mind rape powers is probably irrelevant. I very much doubt that a Warden can distinguish "constant maddening archdemon whispering in their head caused by demonic magic" from "constant madeneing archdemon whispering in their head caused by blight related magic".

I could admittedly be wrong here, but the fact that the Nighmares calling is more than once explicitly stated to be a fake one leads credence to it not actualy involving the Blight.

[Lazarillo]

I'm skeptical. Legacy indicated that Cory had the power to 'speak' through the Blight. I'd be very surprised if that power wasn't at play here.

I got the impression during Legacy that it only worked as well as it did in Legacy because Corfishystix didn't know he was doing it, essentially, and because the Wardens didn't know he could. With him asleep, it just sort of mixed in with the normal "song" and since the modern Wardens weren't aware of his capabilities, the desire to be freed more or less mixed in with their own thoughts and they didn't know enough about it. The moment he wakes up and starts forcibly saying "WARDENS GO DO STUFF", it becomes clear and Wardens are trained to block that out, just like they are with Archdemons.

[nightscrawl]

^ I don't usually go for the mocking of Corypheus's name (neither do I shorten Inquisitor to "Inky," etc.), but "Corfishystix" is the best one I've ever seen.

[Sifr]

Worth noting that Avernus claimed all the way back in Origins that the Blight is totally alien to demons and they have no power over it. This was part of the reason he sought to unlock the untapped power in the Warden's own tainted blood, because unlike Blood magic which oft-requires consorting with demons, the power in the Warden's blood is already there, it just needs some jailbreaking.

 

The use of Blood Magic that we do see was merely to bind the Demons to the Warden Mages. Legacy established that Warden Mages are even more susceptible to being enthralled by Corypheus than regular Wardens, so it wasn't heard for him to "convince" them to allow a possession by the demons in service to Nightmare.

 

So with that in mind, I don't think that Nightmare was using some Blight-related magic to influence the Wardens, because it doesn't seem consistent with how demons are apparently unable to influence the Blight. More than likely it was mimicking it, based on overhearing it in the nightmares of countless Wardens for the past thousand years when their number is up.