477 réponses à ce sujet

[Pasquale1234]

Fenris doesn't have any sexual history mentioned, that I remember. Why wasn't he mentioned? Although, I think this is getting a bit absurd now. If you literally need a virgin to feel represented, I think that says more about you than Bioware. You don't need to be a virgin to not be promiscuous. Most of the characters you mentioned as virtuous probably aren't even virgins. I understand when people say, for example, bisexuals unfortunately get represented more often as promiscuous. I think you're really stretching to demand a gay virgin LI, specifically, or else Bioware is being legitimately offensive.

I don't think a character would need to be a virgin in order to be non-promiscuous.

As near as I can tell, promiscuous (in this thread) describes someone who engages in sexual liaisons very casually and with a variety of partners, where there isn't any particular depth of commitment to the partner. I don't think that a character who has had monogamous committed relationships in the past would be considered promiscuous in this context.

But I'm not entirely sure. Maybe the OP can clarify.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I don't think a character would need to be a virgin in order to be non-promiscuous.

As near as I can tell, promiscuous (in this thread) describes someone who engages in sexual liaisons very casually and with a variety of partners, where there isn't any particular depth of commitment to the partner. I don't think that a character who has had monogamous committed relationships in the past would be considered promiscuous in this context.

But I'm not entirely sure. Maybe the OP can clarify.

 

That is what I assumed, but the OP made a post on the previous page containing this paragraph:

 

"Not only does it make sense for Bioware to give Gay&Bi players one male romance option in each game which represents them with no prior sexual history, as other players have received with Alistair, Cullen, Kaidan (at least for female Shepard's in ME1), as it covers a wider range of people, it shows Bioware would be committed to dismantling the damaging and offensive stereotypes of non-straight males in the media as being promiscuous, of which Bioware has been very sadly perpetuating in the majority of their games so far."

 

More gay or bi male characters that are the Alistair/Cullen knight or paragon types is fine. Honestly, they're not even my thing, but variety is great and a positive thing for representation. Asking for at least one virgin in every game is ridiculous. 

[Pasquale1234]

That is what I assumed, but the OP made a post on the previous page containing this paragraph:
 
Not only does it make sense for Bioware to give Gay&Bi players one male romance option in each game which represents them with no prior sexual history, as other players have received with Alistair, Cullen, Kaidan (at least for female Shepard's in ME1), as it covers a wider range of people, it shows Bioware would be committed to dismantling the damaging and offensive stereotypes of non-straight males in the media as being promiscuous, of which Bioware has been very sadly perpetuating in the majority of their games so far.
 
More gay or bi male characters that are the Alistair/Cullen knight or paragon types is fine. Honestly, they're not even my thing, but variety is great and a positive thing for representation. Asking for at least one virgin in every game is ridiculous.

Some of that wording is a little awkward, though - so I'm not entirely sure what it means.

I know that Alistair was a virgin, but did Cullen and Kaidan also make statements to that effect? That a character doesn't discuss his sexual history doesn't necessarily mean that he doesn't have one.

So it's possible that OP's request might be satisfied by a character who simply doesn't discuss that aspect of his past.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Some of that wording is a little awkward, though - so I'm not entirely sure what it means.

I know that Alistair was a virgin, but did Cullen and Kaidan also make statements to that effect? That a character doesn't discuss his sexual history doesn't necessarily mean that he doesn't have one.

So it's possible that OP's request might be satisfied by a character who simply doesn't discuss that aspect of his past.

 

That's possible, but I still think it's a silly demand. "Please make more gay male characters that don't engage in casual sex often", is a perfectly acceptable request, but at least one in every game that never mentions having any previous relationships ever is stretching too far. I also really think it's kind of a disturbing attitude to have, as if someone is ruined if you know they've ever been with someone else in any context.

[aoibhealfae]

Alistair and Cullen were trained to be Templars and essentially warrior monks... but since when Kaidan was virginal? I could see Shepard being one but Kaidan having no sexual experience? What kind of virgin who said he was a "spectacular" lover that make FemShep get all giggly three years later? and he was quite horny in ME1 and ME3....Also, there's some likelihood that Kaidan had sexual experience with an Asari at some point.. 

 

While I wouldn't say no to a sexually innocent male bi if the writers think it should be there... but just wanting one because you want your PC to do the honorable 'deflowering' ... really?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Asking for at least one virgin in every game is ridiculous. 

Well, to be fair they have had one or more virgin character per game, either explicitly stated or strongly implied. At least in the Bioware games I've played. 

 

KOTOR: Bastila

SWTOR: There were a few

ME1: Liara

ME2: Tali

ME3: Liara(if not romanced in ME1)

DAO: Alistair

DA2: Merrill

DAI: Josephine

 

Then there are others where it could be inferred that they are, but not enough to really make a case one way or the other. 

[Seraphim24]

I think it would be cool if both parties were sexually innocent, or not, there's always this notion of a gap it seems to me between them....

[Xilizhra]

Well, to be fair they have had one or more virgin character per game, either explicitly stated or strongly implied. At least in the Bioware games I've played. 

 

KOTOR: Bastila

SWTOR: There were a few

ME1: Liara

ME2: Tali

ME3: Liara(if not romanced in ME1)

DAO: Alistair

DA2: Merrill

DAI: Josephine

 

Then there are others where it could be inferred that they are, but not enough to really make a case one way or the other. 

Is Josephine really an implied virgin?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Is Josephine really an implied virgin?

Yes.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Well, to be fair they have had one or more virgin character per game, either explicitly stated or strongly implied. At least in the Bioware games I've played. 

 

KOTOR: Bastila

SWTOR: There were a few

ME1: Liara

ME2: Tali

ME3: Liara(if not romanced in ME1)

DAO: Alistair

DA2: Merrill

DAI: Josephine

 

Then there are others where it could be inferred that they are, but not enough to really make a case one way or the other. 

 

More specifically, I meant at least one for this specific demographic in every game, since that's what the OP wanted. Although, Josephine doesn't really seem that virginal to me. I remember asking Leliana about how they met and she talks about attending an afterparty with Josephine that was nearly implied to be an orgy. Something about the night not ending until your small clothes are pinned to a wall, or some similar line. 

[Xilizhra]

Yes. 

Where do you get this? The only thing I can see is Leliana saying that she's an innocent in regards to love, but I had assumed that it was the emotional component. And then Josephine denies it, which made me think that Leliana was just being overprotective.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Where do you get this? The only thing I can see is Leliana saying that she's an innocent in regards to love, but I had assumed that it was the emotional component. And then Josephine denies it, which made me think that Leliana was just being overprotective.

Calling someone an innocent in love has been synonymous with calling them a virgin for centuries and even still today in some cultures.

Josephine never denies it. 

[Xilizhra]

Calling someone an innocent in love has been synonymous with calling them a virgin for centuries and even still today in some cultures.

Josephine never denies it. 

Well, she certainly seemed indignant about Leliana saying it.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

More specifically, I meant at least one for this specific demographic in every game, since that's what the OP wanted. Although, Josephine doesn't really seem that virginal to me. I remember asking Leliana about how they met and she talks about attending an afterparty with Josephine that was nearly implied to be an orgy. Something about the night not ending until your small clothes are pinned to a wall, or some similar line. 

Josephine's and Leliana's writers were asked about that and they answered that Josephine and Leliana have never had any sexual relationships with each other. Josephine even gets upset when asked about it, saying she sees Leliana as a big sister. 

 

Well, she certainly seemed indignant about Leliana saying it.

She was indignant about Leliana's whole treatment of the Inquisitor about it, like threatening them if they hurt Josephine. Her indignation was more she can take care of herself in such matters. It's like a daughter getting upset at their father when they make similar threats. 

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Josephine's and Leliana's writers were asked about that and they answered that Josephine and Leliana have never had any sexual relationships with each other. Josephine even gets upset when asked about it, saying she sees Leliana as a big sister. 

 

That doesn't mean they didn't both have sex with other people at the party, or that the fact that she knew about and invited Leliana to that kind of event doesn't imply it's something she's comfortable with and had indulged in before. But basically, I'm not invested in whether or not she's a virgin at all. My point about the OP's request is that it's not reasonable for any demographic to expect at least one implied virgin in every game. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

That doesn't mean they didn't both have sex with other people at the party, or that the fact that she knew about and invited Leliana to that kind of event doesn't imply it's something she's comfortable with and had indulged in before. But basically, I'm not invested in whether or not she's a virgin at all. My point about the OP's request is that it's not reasonable for any demographic to expect at least one implied virgin in every game. 

The devs said there was no sex. The whole thing was a joke referencing the Leliana's Song DLC where there was a side quest involving pinning a guard's underclothes to a Chanter's Board. 

 

I sort of agree with you in your point though, since that would require at least four virgin romances. If they are say only doing six in MEA, that is 67% of them. Unless both the bi LIs are, in which case only 33%, but the chances of Bioware doing even that is remote. 

[Seraphim24]

I personally think they need to start overlapping this sexuality thing more.... I never encounter anyone who is like a "pure sadomasochist" or a "pure gay" or a "pure straight," 9 times out of 10 they are some combination of those sorts of things.

 

Just like a lot of people aren't purely "polyamorous" or "Purely monogamous" or this or that, being attached to labels in this regard is a recipe for going mad.

[mopotter]

Some of that wording is a little awkward, though - so I'm not entirely sure what it means.

I know that Alistair was a virgin, but did Cullen and Kaidan also make statements to that effect? That a character doesn't discuss his sexual history doesn't necessarily mean that he doesn't have one.

So it's possible that OP's request might be satisfied by a character who simply doesn't discuss that aspect of his past.

Yeah, Alistair will talk abstractly about it and you can expand on your experience or admit to not having any either.  Made me laugh every time I played.  

 

I've never ever got the idea that Kaidan and Cullen hadn't had some kind of sex in the past.  Of course unlike other characters these  two don't have a deceased wife or kids and don't discuss their past that much so I have no proof other than the idea that relating to my characters they did have some experience and  I don't know too many or really any, 30 year old guys who haven't had sex at least once where their heart was broken and they vowed never to love again.  OK made that part up. 

 

I guess if someone wants to think they were inexperienced that's their call, but I don't see it.  

[Hazegurl]

I interpreted OP's request to be focused more on bi/gay male characters rather than every LI character in the game. 

 

OP: "So as the title says I am quite worried about how Bioware plans to portray its same sex romance for gay and bi men."

 

The OP then goes on to explain the differences between how BW portrays their straight male characters and gay male characters. He/she got a fact wrong, by implying that Kaidan was a virgin....but I can see how someone who has played MShep can think that.

 

I don't think it's too unreasonable for a gay/bi male to not be some sort of sex machine in every DA game. Zevran, Anders, IB, and Dorian have all been around the block several times before getting with the PC.  Meanwhile, every DA game gives straight PCs far more variety with their LI's backgrounds.  The only time gay male PC's had that same variety was in DA2 and Fenris.

 

However, as I've said before, I think the OP's request is better aimed at the DA team because so far they are the only ones who have done this.  The ME team created Kaidan and Steve.  Kaidan at one point was written for the male PC as he is, even though they cut the gay content out they didn't change Kaidan as a person.

[Seraphim24]

So basically my point that everyone likes Kaidan and there should be more Kaidan 4 pages ago is still valid?

[Hazegurl]

So basically my point that everyone likes Kaidan and there should be more Kaidan 4 pages ago is still valid?

Pretty much.

 

Although for some reason some people aren't counting Kaidan as a true gay/bi choice because he was exclusive to FemShep in ME1 & 2. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

So basically my point that everyone likes Kaidan and there should be more Kaidan 4 pages ago is still valid?

I don't like Kaidan. I don't hate or dislike him either, I just have no feelings towards him at all. 

One reason he never makes it off Virmire in my games. 

[elrofrost]

If you use the "gay mod" for ME 1 (or edit the save file in Gibbed), which allows you to have a gay relationship with Kaidan in ME1 - in ME1 and 3 Kaiden will talk about his prior girlfriend (in other words, the FemShep dialog). So no. Kaidan is not a virgin.

 

But I agree with others, what ME characters is the OP talking about? They're all saints.

[SKAR]

If you use the "gay mod" for ME 1 (or edit the save file in Gibbed), which allows you to have a gay relationship with Kaidan in ME1 - in ME1 and 3 Kaiden will talk about his prior girlfriend (in other words, the FemShep dialog). So no. Kaidan is not a virgin.

But I agree with others, what ME characters is the OP talking about? They're all saints.

Kaidan was a gangsta back in the day. He killed his Turian instructor at BAAT.

[SKAR]

I don't like Kaidan. I don't hate or dislike him either, I just have no feelings towards him at all.
One reason he never makes it off Virmire in my games.

I never really cared for him either. Cool guy. Raphael Sbarge is an awesome voice actor and on TV but I was kind of hoping kaidan would be more like carth onasi.