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[Sarayne]

Just out of curiosity, what franchise is that?

inb4 witcher 3

[LinksOcarina]

This is quite long and in-depth so I've included a TL;DR version at the end (though personally I would read the whole thing if you have time, to understand exactly were I am coming from).

So as the title says I am quite worried about how Bioware plans to portray its same sex romance for gay and bi men. While romances have been very varied for other sexualities, the ones for gay&bi men have been very cookie cutter and stereotypical. For example, in Dragon Age: Origins straight women have access to Alistair, a virtuous virgin knight, in Inquisition there was Cullen who was a virtuous virgin knight, Blackwall a...well, maybe too many plot spoilers to explain him and Solas. Kaidan in Mass Effect 1 who has exclusive to women at that point, his dialogue throughout the games implies he was a virgin until Shepard. Compare this to the ones we've been given for gay/bi men. There was Zevran in DA:O, a prostitute assassin. DA2 had Anders, someone who sleeps with a lot of prostitutes, DA:I had Iron Bull who sleeps with everything that moves and Dorian who sleeps around just because.

DA2 had Fenris and he was okay, but so far the only game which actually breaks this mould is Mass Effect 3 were gay/bi men could romance Kaidan or Steve, well done, finally a non-stereotypical romance for non-straight men...oh but then DA:I came out and we were back to only having stereotypes again...never mind. That's not even going over the fact that Cullen was planned to be Bi but was cut out last minute because of time constraints, which means there was a possibility of having a non-promiscuous Bi guy available to men which was dumped. Boy, dat representation.

Now this isn't a problem with Bioware specifically, since all media be it Games, TV, Films etc all have this problem of stereotyping gays as being the same and having the same motivations when it comes to 'relationships' and sex, which is always little more than 'gotta sleep with everyone'. There's a reason that "All Gays Are Promiscuous" is a trope

http://tvtropes.org/...sArePromiscuous

A further example is the Game of Thrones TV show. In the book Loras and Renly were honourable, intelligent people who were commited to eachother. And when BOOK SPOILERS Renly was killed, Loras tried to take revenge by storming Dragonstone and had his face burned. Compare this to the TV show where Renly died and within a few days (maybe a week) Loras is sleeping with a prostitute Olyvar (in the book Olyvar wasn't gay, he's Olyvar Frey and was Roberts Squire). And then Lady Olenna puts in some throwaway line about how Renly "fucked half the stable boys in kings landing".

I don't know why media has such a problem with writing gay and bi characters as varied human beings like in real-life. If you only looked at the media you'd get the impression that all gay people aren't humans like everyone else but strange things which do nothing but be promiscuous.

Now while this is a problem with all media, Bioware makes the claim that it's interested in diversity and representation, I am coming up to my 24th birthday and I haven't slept with anyone, why? Because i'm looking for a partner, i'm looking for commitment and hopefully one day a husband. So Bioware, why am I not being represented, am I unworthy? Why are you constantly reusing the same overdone, typical stereotype of non-straight men every time? Plenty of gay people I talk to feel this way too, my dad's friend's are an interracial gay couple who've been together since they were 20 (they're now mid 60s), we have customers who are a gay couple in their late 30s who've been together since they were 16. Why aren't they being represented, are they also unworthy of having their ideas and views of sex and relationships portrayed? I also know that EA has also received complaints like mine about how (Bioware games in specific) they have been portraying us and i'm also aware what EA's views on homosexuality because of an internal email a friend who worked at EA and briefly tested Andromeda received, which boiled down to "We see gay people as being promiscuous so we're only interested in portraying them that way".

We as people have come along way in recent years, trying to get the world to see homosexuals as just being human like everyone else but only in the last few years has same sex marriage been largely legalised, while many countries still refuse adoption by same sex couples and in many parts of the world you can still be murdered for being gay because of a view that we're deviants, predators and paedophiles. Yet the media STILL isn't interested in showing us to be like everyone else, they're deadest on showing us to have no real commitment skills, uninterested in love or relationships. No, according to the media (and Bioware) the only thing are sexuality is about is putting notches on out belt for every booty we can pound. It's sad that I have to go to games like Skyrim, or Fable were the 'romances' are cardboard cutouts with little to no character JUST to experience a gay relationship were they aren't promiscuous.

What's even more frustrating is that since Dragon Age 2 there's been multiple romance options for a character. In Mass effect 3 you had Kaidan, Bi with no prior sexual history or Steve, gay with a deceased husband, two very different people with different pasts and sexual histories. Then DA:I comes along and gives us two options, Iron Bull, Bi and sleeps with everything (he can even sleep with some NPCs before the romance becomes available) and Dorian, gay and has slept with a lot of people just for the sake of it. You had two people but you chose to make them the same, why are we not worthy of having people like Alistair, or Cullen? Why are all the others given to us the same, instead of being diverse like everyone else's, Why can't Bioware make one like Alistair/Cullen and the other like Bull/Dorian/Zevran so everyone has representation? Some people may think this is ranty, and maybe it is, but I am so tired of being portrayed this way in the media, i'm frustrated by the fact that the media including Bioware has pushed this stereotype and caused people to say that they 'would never guess I was gay, because I don't act like it'. Well regardless of whether Bioware or EA thinks it's important, regardless of if they continue to represent me and my sexuality in this stereotypical way and keep using the same template designed only to show that I and other gay&bi men must be slutty because we're not straight so obviously that's how we all are, I know different. Romances are an important part of these games and if Bioware isn't interested in me or representing me and other gay people as varied human beings with different views on sex, relationships and life. I cannot support those ideas with my money and couldn't in good concious buy a game which continue to promote the same tiresome and frankly offensive 'representations' of S/S men if this is going to happen again in Andromeda.

 

TL;DR: Bioware's representation of gay/bi men in their romances as all being promiscuous is stereotypical and offensive to me and a lot of people who've fought for years just to be regarded as equals. Hopefully Andromeda will take influence from ME3 and have a Bi option and Gay option, one who is not promiscuous with no prior sexual history and the other option who is that so everyone has representation. Until it's confirmed that there is an option for us gay men who isn't promiscuous I won't be funding Bioware by buying this game if they are only interested in portraying us as all as being promiscuous.

 

So....were Cortez or Dorian promiscuous at all?

 

I mean looking at their entire arcs it never came across that way for both of them.

[Seraphim24]

Anyway, see what I mean? I just casually drop a range of topics but everyone wants to fixate on a few kind of "specifically ok issues to discuss" like gay and bisexuality and promiscuity and how this relates to specific DA characters. 

 

And in super closeted ways, it's usually not like "Well I'm a guy and I've always wanted to takes guy's full member in mouth" or a girl that's like "I always wanted to watch this happen!" It's all this vague allusions to characters and their own thing and blah blah blah. 

 

That's where like 90% of this angst on this forum and in gaming comes from is because closeting really, to be honest. 

[Lady Artifice]

inb4 witcher 3

 

Fandom rivalries are fun. Both sides tend to convince themselves that the other is the oversensitive one.

[fdrty]

inb4 witcher 3

Why does that annoy some people?

 

Is it because the Witcher 3 is regarded as better than Dragon Age Inquisition?

 

Or is it because witcher fans can get a little unbearable about that opinion?

 

Does it really matter, when both games are so different at their core?

[Sarayne]

Why does that annoy some people?

 

Is it because the Witcher 3 is regarded as better than Dragon Age Inquisition?

 

Or is it because witcher fans can get a little unbearable about that opinion?

 

Does it really matter, when both games are so different at their core?

Because they won't stop bringing it up in almost every thread and the whole "cd project red is the savior of video games meme" I love mass effect and dragon age a lot but i don't bring it up all the damn time.I like witcher 3(it has story issues but whatever) but man do some people fan boy hard over that game. 

[fdrty]

Because they won't stop bringing it up in almost every thread and the whole "cd project red is the savior of video games meme" I love mass effect and dragon age a lot but i don't bring it up all the damn time.I like witcher 3(it has story issues but whatever) but man do some people fan boy hard over that game. 

 

Weird thing is, I know the Witcher 3 is a better game, at least in some aspects. But I just can't get into it. Whereas I find myself coming back to Dragon Age time and time again, despite being so aware of its flaws.

[Hazegurl]

So....were Cortez or Dorian promiscuous at all?

 

I mean looking at their entire arcs it never came across that way for both of them.

Not Cortez, but in the World Thedas you find out Dorian was promiscuous.

 

------------

Whelp, since TW3 was brought up.  I hated how Triss got shafted in favor of Yen.  Though I'm glad CDPR added additional content.  And I will admit that the ladies Geralt get to ...*ahem*...spend time with vary in personality, history et al. And the romances aren't "push flirt button to activate romance".  I hope CDPR offers M/M romance options in Cyberpunk. I'm interested to see how they would do it, if they try.

[Stakrin]

Ok guys

[Lucca_de_Neon]

Who said TW3?

Oops, wrong forum.

[SmilesJA]

Fandom rivalries are fun. Both sides tend to convince themselves that the other is the oversensitive one.

 

I will admit just saying anything that is remotely bad about the Witcher 3 (no matter how small it is) will get some fans in a riot in these forums. XD

[Seboist]

I will admit just saying anything that is remotely bad about the Witcher 3 (no matter how small it is) will get fans in a riot in these forums. XD

Don't care what anyone says about Witcher, but if anyone started talking smack about Kirby, then i'll call them out to the nearest taco bell parking lot.

[SnakeCode]

Fandom rivalries are fun. Both sides tend to convince themselves that the other is the oversensitive one.

 

I'd say the people who get bent out of shape at the mere mention of the other franchise are the oversensitive ones, but as always, i'm sure you disagree.

[Furisco]

I never found the Bioware romances "cringe worthy".

BUT THE PRIZE

[Lady Artifice]

I will admit just saying anything that is remotely bad about the Witcher 3 (no matter how small it is) will get some fans in a riot in these forums. XD

That could depend on how literally you're using the word "riot."

I can think of like, four posters on this forum, who are annoyed by the mere discussion of The Witcher, only one of which I would describe as genuinely bent out of shape about it. And I don't think I'd describe any of them as riotous.

...but I realize that your point is that defensiveness goes both ways, and I couldn't agree more.

I'd say the people who get bent out of shape at the mere mention of the other franchise are the oversensitive ones, but as always, i'm sure you disagree.

I agree with the declarative statement itself. Where I might disagree is how to identify the bent out of shape parties in question.

[SnakeCode]

I will admit just saying anything about the Witcher 3 (no matter how small it is) will get some fans in a riot in these forums. XD

 

ftfy

[Seboist]

I was once called a sexist on here for referring to Witcher 2 as a "real man's rpg". True story.

[straykat]

I was once called a sexist on here for referring to Witcher 2 as a "real man's rpg". True story.

 

But.... but... you are a sexist. Right?

[Seboist]

BUT THE PRIZE

And femshep talking to him like she's in heat.

 

If only all the BW romances were that unintentionally hilarious. They'd be worth buying just for that.

[Seboist]

But.... but... you are a sexist. Right?

Not for that reason at any rate...

[Lucca_de_Neon]

I was once called a sexist on here for referring to Witcher 2 as a "real man's rpg". True story.

You, sexist!

[Seboist]

You, sexist!

It's true, not only do I advocate human dominance in space, but male dominance in the household too. I'll have Ryder bring man's law to Andromeda.

[Hazegurl]

This thread proves that no one even has to mention Witcher 3 to get some raised hackles.

 

 

And femshep talking to him like she's in heat.

 

If only all the BW romances were that unintentionally hilarious. They'd be worth buying just for that.

 

"Hello Jacob." *Breathes intensely*  "Let's talk about how your father's a deadbeat rapist." *Breathing intensifies*

[straykat]

Kind of funny, since CDProjekt were Bioware fans... and even used their engine to kick off the first game. edit: I think Bioware even actively helped them.

[SnakeCode]

Let's not forget the Femshep/Vega thing in the Citadel DLC. Cringe worthy is indeed the right term to describe it.