477 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

They literally marketed Dorians sexuality as a thing due to him being their first "pure gay Homosexual character" or some nonsense.

 

http://gamesnosh.com...ge-inquisition/

 

The above write up sums up everything that is wrong with modern bioware. Unless they stop trying to pander to a vocal minority and focus on actual good characters instead of meeting quotas the sooner they will cease being a laughing stock.

The fact they marketed that doesn't change the fact that in the game there is no difference between how DAI and TW3 approached it. 

Plus you act like "pandering" to minorities and having great characters are mutually exclusive things, yet there are many great characters whom are women, PoC, LGBT+, etc. 

[SarenDidNothingWrong]

The fact they marketed that doesn't change the fact that in the game there is no difference between how DAI and TW3 approached it. 

Plus you act like "pandering" to minorities and having great characters are mutually exclusive things, yet there are many great characters whom are women, PoC, LGBT+, etc. 

 

It's the way Bioware handles it that stinks.

 

"there is no difference between how DAI and TW3 approached it."

 

Outright lie. For one, half of Witcher 3s cast of main characters aren't some asexual special snowflakes like in DAI.

[KaiserShep]

Outright lie. For one, half of Witcher 3s cast of main characters aren't some asexual special snowflakes like in DAI.

 

Wait, so which characters are these again? I'm pretty sure the only one that qualifies is spirit-version Cole. 

[KaiserShep]

They literally marketed Dorians sexuality as a thing due to him being their first "pure gay Homosexual character" or some nonsense.

 

http://gamesnosh.com...ge-inquisition/

 

The above write up sums up everything that is wrong with modern bioware. Unless they stop trying to pander to a vocal minority and focus on actual good characters instead of meeting quotas the sooner they will cease being a laughing stock.

 

 

This would probably be more meaningful if there was an explanation as to why Dorian is actually a bad character though.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

It's the way Bioware handles it that stinks.

 

"there is no difference between how DAI and TW3 approached it."

 

Outright lie. For one, half of Witcher 3s cast of main characters aren't some asexual special snowflakes like in DAI.

Let's look at the main cast for DAI:

Cassandra: Straight 

Cole: Asexual if spirit, Straight if human

Cullen: Straight

Dorian: Gay

Josephine: Bi(though writer accepts seeing her as demi or ace as valid interpretations)

Leliana: Bi

Sera: Gay

Solas: Straight

The Iron Bull: Pan

Thom Rainier: Straight

Varric: Straight

Vivienne: Straight

 

So that is pretty much every member of the main cast being on the Kinsey Scale. So unless you think people who are Bisexual and Homosexual are also "some asexual special snowflakes", you are objectively wrong.  

[SarenDidNothingWrong]

This would probably be more meaningful if there was an explanation as to why Dorian is actually a bad character though.

 

Where did I say Dorian was a bad character?

 

 

 

Let's look at the main cast for DAI:

Cassandra: Straight 

Cole: Asexual if spirit, Straight if human

Cullen: Straight

Dorian: Gay

Josephine: Bi(though writer accepts seeing her as demi or ace as valid interpretations)

Leliana: Bi

Sera: Gay

Solas: Straight

The Iron Bull: Pan

Thom Rainier: Straight

Varric: Straight

Vivienne: Straight

 

So that is pretty much every member of the main cast being on the Kinsey Scale. So unless you think people who are Bisexual and Homosexual are also "some asexual special snowflakes", you are objectively wrong.  

 

 

Just look at that ****. The odds off having a squad being 50% straight and 50% something else is just nonsense, especially in that type of a time period/setting. Homosexuals/Lesbians/*Insert special snowflake sexuality here* are a huge minority, it's that simple. The odds of having a squad that looked like the one in Inquisition is just minimal and blatant pandering to a vocal minority who don't even play games, hence why Inquisition gets mocked by everybody outside of this echo chamber.

 

It's just quota filling nonsense and Bioware have rightfully been mocked for their token inset approach to character design.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Where did I say Dorian was a bad character?

Here: 

They literally marketed Dorians sexuality as a thing due to him being their first "pure gay Homosexual character" or some nonsense.

 

http://gamesnosh.com...ge-inquisition/

 

The above write up sums up everything that is wrong with modern bioware. Unless they stop trying to pander to a vocal minority and focus on actual good characters instead of meeting quotas the sooner they will cease being a laughing stock.

You literally rant about Dorian, giving him an example of what is wrong with Bioware, then say they should focus on making good characters. Ergo, you are saying Dorian is not a good character. 

[SarenDidNothingWrong]

Here: 

You literally rant about Dorian, giving him an example of what is wrong with Bioware, then say they should focus on making good characters. Ergo, you are saying Dorian is not a good character. 

 

Yes, where in that quote did I say Dorian was a bad character? Go on, highlight the part where I said it :^)

[Xilizhra]

Just look at that ****. The odds off having a squad being 50% straight and 50% something else is just nonsense, especially in that type of a time period/setting. Homosexuals/Lesbians/*Insert special snowflake sexuality here* are a huge minority, it's that simple. The odds of having a squad that looked like the one in Inquisition is just minimal and blatant pandering to a vocal minority who don't even play games, hence why Inquisition gets mocked by everybody outside of this echo chamber.

 

It's just quota filling nonsense and Bioware have rightfully been mocked for their token inset approach to character design.

Ah, yes, because the true measure of how much of a laughingstock Bioware is to the gaming public as a whole is romance option ratios? You people are more obsessed with romance than we are. And citation needed on "everybody" mocking it.

[KaiserShep]

Where did I say Dorian was a bad character?

 

 

I felt it was implicit in your comment about BioWare's focus. That they simply marketed a character that happens to be good in a way that perhaps some might feel doesn't do the character justice doesn't really make as strong an argument for things that are necessarily wrong with BioWare. 

 

 

Just look at that ****. The odds off having a squad being 50% straight and 50% something else is just nonsense, especially in that type of a time period/setting. Homosexuals/Lesbians/*Insert special snowflake sexuality here* are a huge minority, it's that simple. The odds of having a squad that looked like the one in Inquisition is just minimal and blatant pandering to a vocal minority who don't even play games, hence why Inquisition gets mocked by everybody outside of this echo chamber.

 

It's just quota filling nonsense and Bioware have rightfully been mocked for their token inset approach to character design.

 

I think this ignores the fact that this is a game and that it gives us a very small number of pieces to work with, on top of giving the player the opportunity to build their character they way they like to some degree. So if I wanted my character to be gay, but BioWare adhered to whatever odds they determined are against our PC having some overlap in our core group, then I suppose that character is SOL, since Bio obviously can't afford to give every single NPC substantial enough content to allow us to explore the world more like an actual person could. 

[SarenDidNothingWrong]

Ah, yes, because the true measure of how much of a laughingstock Bioware is to the gaming public as a whole is romance option ratios? You people are more obsessed with romance than we are. And citation needed on "everybody" mocking it.

 

http://www.metacriti...age-inquisition

 

 

It's userscore s completely embarrassing.

 

 

The game is a sloth of mediocrity and coupled with Mass Effect 3s ending, single handedly ruined Biowares reputation as one of the best RPG developers of all time.

 

 

 

I felt it was implicit in your comment about BioWare's focus. That they simply marketed a character that happens to be good in a way that perhaps some might feel doesn't do the character justice doesn't really make as strong an argument for things that are necessarily wrong with BioWare. 

 

 

I think this ignores the fact that this is a game and that it gives us a very small number of pieces to work with, on top of giving the player the opportunity to build their character they way they like to some degree. So if I wanted my character to be gay, but BioWare adhered to whatever odds they determined are against our PC having some overlap in our core group, then I suppose that character is SOL, since Bio obviously can't afford to give every single NPC substantial enough content to allow us to explore the world more like an actual person could. 

 

I don't care what you felt, I want you to quote me where I said it rather than putting words in my mouth and attacking a strawman.

 

Either acknowledge that you made it up, or quote where I called Dorian a bad character.

[Xilizhra]

http://www.metacriti...age-inquisition

 

 

It's userscore s completely embarrassing.

 

 

The game is a sloth of mediocrity and coupled with Mass Effect 3s ending, single handedly ruined Biowares reputation as one of the best RPG developers of all time.

And you think that's because of the romances? As opposed to, say, attempts to imitate Skyrim despite that not being Bioware's forte?

[Who Knows]

Just look at that ****. The odds off having a squad being 50% straight and 50% something else is just nonsense, especially in that type of a time period/setting.

What, Dragon Age isn't set in a real place and non-straight people have existed everywhere throughout human history. They didn't suddenly come into exist in recent years.

 

 

Homosexuals/Lesbians/*Insert special snowflake sexuality here*

They've only done straight, gay and bisexual AFAIK, I don't think they've really gone into special snowflake territory here.

 

I think with Dorian you can look at who wrote him, a gay man, so in his case you could say that the writer just wanted to write what he wanted to write.

 

I think Bioware IS trying to come across as progressive and diverse but I don't think it's become that overbearing yet. I can still happily romance hot wimmen as a manly man™ and I don't have less options than the gays. I do think there is some cause for concern for poorly or awkwardly implemented things like Krem's transgenderism in the future but again I don't think it's truly become that bad yet. You can safely avoid Dorian, Sera and Krem if they bother you so much, Bioware has a history of pointing the LGBT characters farther away from the limelight than the bisexual characters in general, huehue.

[KaiserShep]

http://www.metacriti...age-inquisition

 

 

It's userscore s completely embarrassing.

 

 

The game is a sloth of mediocrity and coupled with Mass Effect 3s ending, single handedly ruined Biowares reputation as one of the best RPG developers of all time.

 

 

I find that those metacritic users can get a bit hyperbolic. I was going to comment on the vgcharts link you posted initially, because from what I was looking at, those numbers didn't seem so terrible as to be embarrassing, but I guess there's no point now.

 

 

 

I don't care what you felt, I want you to quote me where I said it rather than putting words in my mouth and attacking a strawman.

 

Either acknowledge that you made it up, or quote where I called Dorian a bad character.

 

Well, I did say "implicit". Without the implication that Dorian is actually a bad character, this statement:

 

Unless they stop trying to pander to a vocal minority and focus on actual good characters instead of meeting quotas the sooner they will cease being a laughing stock.

 

is pointless. I mean, if they're focusing on Dorian, are they not focusing on an actual good character? Sure, perhaps not in the manner you might prefer, but BioWare promoting him as their first properly homosexual male character shouldn't take away from his quality in the game itself. 

[SnakeCode]

I think Bioware IS trying to come across as progressive and diverse but I don't think it's become that overbearing yet.

 

That's because you haven't seen Patrick Weekes' twitter.

[Panda]

Is it or is it from a vocal minority?

 

This what people call vocal minority seems to be lot bigger in size than many think.

[Laughing_Man]

This what people call vocal minority seems to be lot bigger in size than many think.

 

That's precisely the nature of a vocal minority, it seems to be much bigger than it actually is.

[Laughing_Man]

That's because you haven't seen Patrick Weekes' twitter.

 

You made me curious, so I went and searched for it. Now things are starting to make more sense I guess.

 

I don't really care about his personal opinions, but when a company is starting to resemble an echo chamber, it's obvious that their products are going to be influenced, and that politics will take precedence over quality.

 

Oh well.

[Panda]

Because of how hamfisted they handle it in every single game. Compare Inuqisition to how Witcher 3 handled a gay character.

 

In Inuqisition you get it thrown in your face constantly about how the character is "so progressive and diverse!" and all it does is ruin immersion. In Witcher 3 they had a gay character who didn't even mention he was gay until you spoke to him a bit more and found out about him, it felt natural and real.

 

Bioware has turned into a complete joke lately because of all their sexual pandering nonsense and to say Diversity is in demand is an outright lie, gamers don't care about diversity when it purely exists for the sake of diversity hence why so many games that are pandering are getting ignored from gamers that don't want the developers political agendas crammed down our throats. Bioware has became a meme lately with how much they've been pandering in their most recent game.

 

I couldn't give a **** if a character is straight, gay or some asexual attack helicopter, just give me a good game with a good story and believable characters. If they're gay so be it, just don't make that the basis of the character.

 

Seriously, what's even the deal with actively pursuing more sexually diverse characters? Those demographics represent such a tiny portion of the gaming community that all it does is alienate your actual fanbase in favor of a group that likely couldn't give two shits about your games.

 

Just look at the Baldur's Gate Dragonspear controversy and how badly it bit the developers in the ass when they got bombarded with negative reviews only for them to publicly apologize for forcing their political views into their games.

 

Now I don't know Witcher 3's handling cause I have never played it, but I have surely heard more good about DAI's handling than Witchers. Also doesn't Witcher like have just one gay character in the all of the games or am I mistaken?

 

Not all gamers care about diversity- just tons of them. It's not anymore world where it's only thought that teenager boys play games and games are made for them only, developers have realized how all kinds of people do. Some of people of the group that was so heavily catered before and now still catered if less so, should realize that. They aren't only one's buying these games.

 

Fiction is always more and less political. It can speak about real world straight-forwardly or then create certain ideals that can be mirrored. For example Hayao Miyazaki's Ghibli movies, most of them are pretty environmentalist. Marvel is introducing more and more diversity, in terms of race, gender and sexualities. It's not long time ago when comic books were banned from having any LGBT+ characters so there is catching up to do. World is changing to accept and even cherish diversity. Including game studies and gamers. Even though Bioware has been pretty diverse around decade already with Jade Empire having bisexual LI, Kotor having lesbian LI and so on.

 

Now of course it can be talked how this diversity is portrayed- like OP was talking with his/her first post, but diversity itself in sexualities as in everything else is thing now and hopefully here to stay.

[Panda]

That's precisely the nature of a vocal minority, it seems to be much bigger than it actually is.

 

What I'm saying is that it actually is that big. Minority can be 45 to 55 percentage for example after all ^^ Though I'm not sure if it really is minority or not.

[Evamitchelle]

They literally marketed Dorians sexuality as a thing due to him being their first "pure gay Homosexual character" or some nonsense.
 
http://gamesnosh.com...ge-inquisition/
 
The above write up sums up everything that is wrong with modern bioware. Unless they stop trying to pander to a vocal minority and focus on actual good characters instead of meeting quotas the sooner they will cease being a laughing stock.

That's not true. David Gaider wrote a character profile for Dorian on the Dragon Age website, like every writer did for their character, and in that profile he mentioned that Dorian was the first gay character he had written. It's gaming websites like IGN who decided to make it an article about "Bioware's first fully gay male", which wasn't what DG had said and wasn't true, and ignore the dozens or so other questions in which DG spoke about Dorian's personality and Tevinter background. 

[Laughing_Man]

That's not true. David Gaider wrote a character profile for Dorian on the Dragon Age website, like every writer did for their character, and in that profile he mentioned that Dorian was the first gay character he had written. It's gaming websites like IGN who decided to make it an article about "Bioware's first fully gay male", which wasn't what DG had said and wasn't true, and ignore the dozens or so other questions in which DG spoke about Dorian's personality and Tevinter background. 

 

Still, ask most people who played DA:I about Dorian, how is he going to be remembered?

 

Dorian the amazingly powerful mage?

Dorian the time traveler?

Dorian the wise?

Dorian the blood mage?

Dorian the mage who freed the slaves?

 

Or Dorian the gay with daddy issues?

 

(and I actually didn't dislike his character, he was somewhat charming and funny, and had some witty dialogue)

[Evamitchelle]

Still, ask most people who played DA:I about Dorian, how is he going to be remembered?

 

Dorian the amazingly powerful mage?

Dorian the time traveler?

Dorian the wise?

Dorian the blood mage?

Dorian the mage who freed the slaves?

 

Or Dorian the gay with daddy issues?

 

(and I actually didn't dislike his character, he was somewhat charming and funny, and had some witty dialogue)

 

So? Even if most people remembered him only as 'the gay guy', it doesn't change the fact that Bioware did not market him as their first fully gay character. 

[nfi42]

Still, ask most people who played DA:I about Dorian, how is he going to be remembered?

 

Dorian the amazingly powerful mage?

Dorian the time traveler?

Dorian the wise?

Dorian the blood mage?

Dorian the mage who freed the slaves?

 

Or Dorian the gay with daddy issues?

 

(and I actually didn't dislike his character, he was somewhat charming and funny, and had some witty dialogue)

 

I'll bite.

 

Dorian was a well written character which was letdown by a humdrum character quest.

[MrMrPendragon]

I say we should all just stop seeing any character we see in this game (or any game) as representations of people in real life.

 

Say one character is acting a certain way about his sexuality, I'm gonna look at it and say to myself "Oh he's this, this, and that" and accept that's the kind of person that character is. What I'm not going to say is "Hey, I identify as that gender and not all of us act like that at all so they got it all wrong" because if people keep taking it like that, then where does it all end? When you've successfully identified all the personalities one gender group can take?

 

There are a f*ck load of people in this planet and that number ain't dropping to an amount where you can count the number of personalities people take.