Questa discussione ha avuto 216 risposte

[Seraphim24]

So I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I sometimes like to play all the dark side in Bio games, whether that's KOTOR, SWTOR.

 

It's just more fulfilling, to me personally, to stand by "the man" so to speak, (or maybe, the woman?) not much of a rebel, myself. And most of the time their "rugged invidualism" is just a thin veneer to enforce tyranny in it's place, blergh to that.

 

But now I keep hearing about the "No more renegade or paragon" or just even worse, "nothing but gray"

 

Screw gray, gray is the ugliest color, as I stated before in that other thread.

 

It's like, well what if I don't want to follow Normandy Space Alliance Space Control Command, operation Twilight Hunger Games, and bulging with a combination of romance and fetishes?

 

I guess ME2 is people's reference for this but I don't know I thought they were kind of flimsily handled at times.

 

So yes I started this thread because I'm curious if anyone else wants to see more evil options that don't follow these Hallway Monitor codes of conduct all the time, and instead independent develop a compass or are otherwise less inclined to go that "Free individual" thing-a-majig.

 

In conjunction with my other threads "More heroism please" and "less whining please" I would like them to be sort of like heroically evil, and I most certainly don't want it to consist of whining, that's all the "Paragon" options for the most part anyway.

 

Thank you.

[Laughing_Man]

Nevermind. Have fun.

[Helios969]

I'm not sure what you mean by "heroically evil."  You wanna play as Gengis Khan?  The way most people seem to want to play evil is slaughtering and/or subjugating everything around them.  It doesn't work in practice as people will turn on you pretty quickly.  My preference would be to play as a diabolical villain...lying, cheating, stealing, manipulating another into committing the murder all the while wearing the mask of "good guy."

[wright1978]

I don't want cartoonish evil options. I'd be very happy if there are dark, pragmatic grey choices available.

Though i might make an exception if murdering that annoying Asari with a knife is an option.

[Joseph Warrick]

I agree. Dark side warrior and inquisitors are absolute blasts for me, they're hysterical. I would be happy if the story could be turned on an evil path.

 

Bioware has also done a somewhat more serious evil path in Jade Empire, where you're able to mentally enslave all your followers after they turn on you for enslaving the level's boss, and then you sacrifice your love interest in order to bound the god of life to your will. That's great, but there's a limit beyond which the whole thing becomes a parody. Nobody wants teen-level self-important, self-serious "dark" edginess. Gotta keep an eye on that.

[Seraphim24]

I find it hard to take your posts as anything other than trolling attempts, regardless of their content.

 

I'm trying to sort it out sometimes, it's not super clear to me. I just find the evil options to be sort of "heroic" anyway, it all fits together to me, I don't expect it to make sense to everyone, though.

 

I honestly find myself playing renegade more often, not every time, but yeah.. and I think it's because I find it "heroic" in a sense, but like I don't always understand it.

 

But yeah I'm not trolling, I think maybe annoyed because you think about how evil and crazy you could be in earlier Bioware games and that kind of filters out so much it seems...

[Seraphim24]

I agree. Dark side warrior and inquisitors are absolute blasts for me, they're hysterical. I would be happy if the story could be turned on an evil path.

 

Bioware has also done a somewhat more serious evil path in Jade Empire, where you're able to mentally enslave all your followers after they turn on you for enslaving the level's boss, and then you sacrifice your love interest in order to bound the god of life to your will. That's great, but there's a limit beyond which the whole thing becomes a parody. Nobody wants teen-level self-important, self-serious "dark" edginess. Gotta keep an eye on that.

 

Yeah I loved the Inquisitor in SWTOR, I wish they would do something comparable in ME.

 

Anyway, you seem to have a sense of what it is I'm thinking of...

[DuskWanderer]

Nope. No interest in playing a dickweed for the sake of dickweed. 

 

What I want is the concept that being human-centric isn't necessary the "renegade" choice.

[Shadow Recon117]

Bioware evil options have always been a funny tension breaker that is so over the top it's funny. I'm all for having them in ME:A so that I can have a few funny moments.

[Seraphim24]

Bioware evil options have always been a funny tension breaker that is so over the top it's funny. I'm all for having them in ME:A so that I can have a few funny moments.

 

That's true, sometimes you really get to be like meta-evil though. Rachni, Citadel Council, etc, not always super fleshed out but it's there.

[dreamgazer]

Paragon and Renegade? Throw them out the airlock.

[Xilizhra]

Nope. No interest in playing a dickweed for the sake of dickweed. 

 

What I want is the concept that being human-centric isn't necessary the "renegade" choice.

Given that it was one of the main Renegade principles, I find that unlikely.

[dreamgazer]

Given that it was one of the main Renegade principles, I find that unlikely.

Not really. There's a reason why a renegade version of the ending in ME1 exists where the council was saved, as well as a paragon version of that ending where the council was killed.

[Xilizhra]

Not really. There's a reason why a renegade version of the ending in ME1 exists where the council was saved, as well as a paragon version of that ending where the council was killed.

Well, the reason is a lack of binding choices. But since every humanocentric option thus far has been Renegade, I don't see why this would be any different.

[Seraphim24]

^ Dreamgazer is right, like there is a renegade option to save Wrex, for instance.

 

That's why I don't view "more heroic" and "evil" as inconsistent.

 

"Good" and "heroism/Evil" are inconsistent though.

 

The concept of "good" is like always artificial, thus I want to oppose artificiality, which the game calls "evil" Um.. something like that.

 

Sometimes that involves destruction or putting down rebellions and such, but it doesn't have to be like... "human centric."

[themikefest]

Depends. What you might call evil, I call good.

 

I know I like to see a lot more renegade in the next game. Even more renegade interrupts. ME3 was lacking in renegade interrupts

[Seraphim24]

I just would like to be authoritarian and all that instead of anti-authoritarian, etc, etc. Bio is unique it offers more in that respect than other companies, would like to see it expanded upon.

[UpUpAway95]

I think the public should just leave it up to the developer to write this game/story.  We don't even know what this story is really about... yet we're telling them we want certain types of villains and heroes?  Bioware needs some latitude here to decide for themselves what sorts of heroes and villains and combinations of both suit their story best.  We talk a lot about player agency here... but there is such a thing a writer's agency in creating the game (setting, general plot, etc.) that needs to be respected so that they can write us a good, exciting and intriguing story to discover within the game with characters available that can believably "fit" into that story.  You don't just insert a "good guy" cheater into a game that might whose whole plot might just be about the "nature" of tyranny.  You don't just plunk a raging tyrant "hero" in the middle of a spy story about secretive espionage.

 

These are "role playing" games.  That's not the same thing as "write your own story" games.  What exactly will be "better" evil Renegade options or better Paragon options or just plain better dialogue options will depend on the type of story Bioware is trying to write in the first place... and we don't know what that story is... and we won't know that until the game is about to be released. 

 

It's not appropriate to try to tell an author what to write into a book after just seeing the preliminary book cover, so it shouldn't be appropriate to tell a gaming developer what sorts of precise characters they need to put into their game stories either.   Players really need to stop trying to write Bioware's stories for them.  If, in the end, the story turns out to be something you wouldn't buy in a book, all you'll have to do is "read the book jacket" before buying it.

[Seraphim24]

^ This is why i want more evil options though, so like lets say a character representing your perspective comes along in the game, it's the writer's favorite character or something, and they have all these great ideas about blah blah blah blah blah.

 

I want to just, you know, leave them behind, throw em out the base. I want to be able to be "evil" I don't want to have to listen to everyone about everything, because a lot of what they all say is nonsense.

 

I don't care what someone thinks is "appropriate" I just want to do whatever I want to do.

[UpUpAway95]

^ This is why i want more evil options though, so like lets say a character representing your perspective comes along in the game, it's the writer's favorite character or something, and they have all these great ideas about blah blah blah blah blah.

 

I want to just, you know, leave them behind, throw em out the base. I want to be able to be "evil" I don't want to have to listen to everyone about everything, because a lot of what they all say is nonsense.

 

I don't care what someone thinks is "appropriate" I just want to do whatever I want to do.

 

Listen to yourself... IF what you want to do in a game is "whatever you want" then don't play a "role playing" game... pick up a "write your own story" game and play that... play Minecraft or SIMS.  In a "role playing" game, you are an actor... actors don't write their character... they can sometimes "flesh out" their characters in somewhat individual ways... but it's still up to the writers and directors of the movie/show, etc. to provide the general outline of the character for the actor to follow... and to write the dialogue that the actor has to work with.

[Seraphim24]

^ Listen to yourself that's actually exactly what "role playing game" means, you choose your role, that's exactly one thing which differentiates them from movies and all the others.

 

Minecraft or Sims aren't RPGs you don't have roles, it's just mine and craft, whatever, blah blah.

[Sanunes]

The way I understand the information from E3 is that the Paragon/Renegade system is getting overhauled to the point of being more like Dragon Age where the choices are much less extreme from one another to allow for "shades of grey" to be a lot more common.

 

The other thing is why is the Renegade/Paragon system always labeled as Good/Evil? If that is what they wanted wouldn't it have been labeled as such? Mass Effect choices rarely were evil, if anything the best way I have heard the choices described more as being diplomatic for paragon and forceful for renegade and that seems to fit the existing choices in Mass Effect a lot better then good and evil.

[UpUpAway95]

^ Listen to yourself that's actually exactly what "role playing game" means, you choose your role, that's exactly one thing which differentiates them from movies and all the others.

 

Minecraft or Sims aren't RPGs you don't have roles, it's just mine and craft, whatever, blah blah.

 

No, it doesn't mean "you choose your own role."  In Mass Effect, your role was chosen... you played Shepard, a military commander, XO of the Normandy... no one else.  The writer wrote in various "versions" of Shepard and provided those versions with differing dialogues throughout the game and wrote the NPCs to "react" to those different dialogue choices.  At no time could you just "do whatever you wanted."  I think most anyone would think it unreasonable to expect to play a Femshep as a "fairy princess" Barbie character only interested in looking in the mirror at herself... because that sort of female character just wouldn't fit the Mass Effect story line at all.

 

In a role playing game, the author of the game writes the game for a "range" of more loosely defined characters... but that "range" is still determined by the author.  They "HAVE TO" do it this way, since we're not at the stage where an AI in your computer can adapt the NPCs and such on the fly to react to ANY POSSIBLE character you might want to play.  Will Bioware write ME:A for a broader range of characters than they have in the past?... probably (because they have bettter tech, a larger budget, and have had more time to write this story that they have had with others).  Does that mean that the range will include the specific sort of tyrant you want to play?... depends if Bioware feels that sort of character even loosely "fits" in their story.

[nfi42]

Grey is a whole bunch of good options thrown in with a bunch of bad options. Nothing is black or white.  We don't have emoticons in real life to assist our choices why do we need them ingame.

 

Grey is good,  grey makes you think.  I really find it boring to play a straight hero or evil character. Paragon/renegade assists boring playthroughs

[Monk]

(Elcor) Scholarly: if it fits within the story, i absolutely support this. (/Elcor)