Questa discussione ha avuto 216 risposte

[Laughing_Man]

It makes the whole synthetic shenanigans seem like small potatoes. I guess it helps that I also saved the rachni. It'd be interesting to see what would happen there.

 

That's like trying to put out a fire by pouring napalm on it...

[Dalinne]

It's so weird to me that the majority of people tend to play either paragon or renegade. Sticking to one morality always seemed so boring to me. My main shepard was a paragade/neutral good and it was so interesting to play that way also made shepard seem much more realistic.full paragon seemed too idealistic and some paragon decisions were just plain dumb. On the other hand full renegade was too extreme sometimes and some decisions were just plain dumb. So happy their exploring more neutral/grey options this time around. Also can't wait to play as a renegon this time when the game comes out, so i would love more fun renegade type lines/interrupts those were always really fun.

 

I make in my head a whole background and make decisions regarding Shepard's past story and his/her personality. Sometimes a paragon  is very conflicted about batarians regarding he/she is from Mindoir and kills Balack the batarian despite the death of the hostages, sometimes a paragon needs to threat a merc in Korlus because he/she likes being harsh with criminals; other times a Renegade helps Jena because he/she remembers their bad times surviving on Earth in the gangs and Shepard knows by experience Jena is in real danger; sometimes a Renegade just destroys the collector base because he/she never forgets Cerberus killed 50 marines in Akuze.

 

I'm all for Paragade and Renegon

[Degs29]

It's so weird to me that the majority of people tend to play either paragon or renegade. Sticking to one morality always seemed so boring to me. My main shepard was a paragade/neutral good and it was so interesting to play that way also made shepard seem much more realistic.full paragon seemed too idealistic and some paragon decisions were just plain dumb. On the other hand full renegade was too extreme sometimes and some decisions were just plain dumb. So happy their exploring more neutral/grey options this time around. Also can't wait to play as a renegon this time when the game comes out, so i would love more fun renegade type lines/interrupts those were always really fun.

 

That is absolutely a great point.  On all my playthroughs, I went almost exclusively paragon or exclusively renegade (maybe I have OCD like that?).  It never felt right, but I always felt compelled to max out those meters. 

 

I think the Paragon/Renegade system is too simplistic now for modern games.

[straykat]

I kind of switch with all games. I guess Shepard goes through a lot of **** to make this seem believable. He/she reassess his life, depending on where he is in the game.

[ljos1690]

That is absolutely a great point.  On all my playthroughs, I went almost exclusively paragon or exclusively renegade (maybe I have OCD like that?).  It never felt right, but I always felt compelled to max out those meters. 
 
I think the Paragon/Renegade system is too simplistic now for modern games.

yes I agree, id rather them get rid of the morailty meter and system completely or at least make it better. I think it was too limited and distracting, considering many people just tried to get enough points to unlock things. You shouldn't have to have a certain amount of points just to make your character say or do something. The only flaw of playing an in between morality is sometimes ppl couldn't unlock certain decisions or dialogue so I guess thats why most players just stuck to one. But the devs seem to imply that their getting rid of that system and the dialogue and morailty will be less linear so well see.

[Ahriman]

I think the Paragon/Renegade system is too simplistic now for modern games.

I wouldn't call complete absence of morality system more complex either.

"Gray choices" are a trend now, but choosing between sorts of bastards gets pretty boring too quick for my taste. Crones decision in W3 was a good one, choice between criminal and madman - not so much, I'd rather choose something more idealistic and get everyone killed because of that.

[Inkvisiittori]

It's so weird to me that the majority of people tend to play either paragon or renegade. Sticking to one morality always seemed so boring to me. My main shepard was a paragade/neutral good and it was so interesting to play that way also made shepard seem much more realistic.full paragon seemed too idealistic and some paragon decisions were just plain dumb. On the other hand full renegade was too extreme sometimes and some decisions were just plain dumb. So happy their exploring more neutral/grey options this time around. Also can't wait to play as a renegon this time when the game comes out, so i would love more fun renegade type lines/interrupts those were always really fun.

 

Indeed. This is also one thing I hate about ME2 - I want Morinth in my team but it's impossible. I always choose the option that best suits my character - sometimes that's paragon and sometimes renegade. I don't want to change my play style just to get one companion but I also don't want to help Samara murder her own daughter. I'm glad they are moving away from the black & white paragon/renegade system... but I still hope our companions question our choices and motivations. They did this very well in DAI. All the companions had their own agendas and opinions about things. I really liked the approval system... would like to see something like that in MEA too.

[Degs29]

By now I've watched quite a few people play through the trilogy, and there's always a constant.  There first instinct is the pick the dialogue options that most closely matches what they would say themselves, but they immediately second guess themselves and instead ask me what are the consequences for their paragon/renegade score if they choose that option.

 

That's not the way the game should be played.

[TheRatPack55]

By now I've watched quite a few people play through the trilogy, and there's always a constant.  There first instinct is the pick the dialogue options that most closely matches what they would say themselves, but they immediately second guess themselves and instead ask me what are the consequences for their paragon/renegade score if they choose that option.

 

That's not the way the game should be played.

 

This is not an informed post since I don't have the time to read through the thread, bud just as a response to your particular post -  that is how the game forced the players to play it, for two games in the trilogy at least. You didn't commit, you missed out on a lot of options, and were left with the most bare-bones experience.

 

Personally, my favorite alignment is lawful evil and I'd love to get an opportunity to play it for whatever number of games applicable, and have the ending reflect my choice. That would probably be siding with Cerberus in ME and seeing humanity dominate the known universe, however awul that might have been for everyone involved.

[Shechinah]

Personally, my favorite alignment is lawful evil and I'd love to get an opportunity to play it for whatever number of games applicable, and have the ending reflect my choice. That would probably be siding with Cerberus in ME and seeing humanity dominate the known universe, however awul that might have been for everyone involved.

 

I don't think Cerberus would count as lawful evil since they are a terrorist organization that act outside and ignore the law.
 

[Cyberstrike nTo]

^ Listen to yourself that's actually exactly what "role playing game" means, you choose your role, that's exactly one thing which differentiates them from movies and all the others.

 

Minecraft or Sims aren't RPGs you don't have roles, it's just mine and craft, whatever, blah blah.

 

There are some great text based RPGs where you can play as a villain, maybe that is what you try those, because I don't think ME:A is the game for you.

[TheRatPack55]

I don't think Cerberus would count as lawful evil since they are a terrorist organization that act outside and ignore the law.
 

 

I just meant that would have been the closest from what was offered to us. Not my preferred option.

 

Still, lawful evil doesn't have to operate within the confines of established law, if they deem that order itself unlawful. It just has to follow a certain set of its own established rules as an organization, and probably severely punish those who stray outside of them. Also needs an ideal they aspire to. I have to say Cerberus pretty much fits that definition in general, even though they're not what I'd personally like in an "evil faction" option.

[fhs33721]

I have to say Cerberus pretty much fits that definition in general, even though they're not what I'd personally like in an "evil faction" option.

Only when they don't go full stupid-evil, which they tend to do often.

[ljos1690]

that is how the game forced the players to play it, for two games in the trilogy at least. You didn't commit, you missed out on a lot of options, and were left with the most bare-bones experience.

Personally, my favorite alignment is lawful evil and I'd love to get an opportunity to play it for whatever number of games applicable, and have the ending reflect my choice. That would probably be siding with Cerberus in ME and seeing humanity dominate the known universe, however awul that might have been for everyone involved.

Playing as a paragade i still managed to get almost all decisions and dialogue choices available. I always had all the major decisions unlocked for both paragon and renegade but that's because my shepard had a really high paragon bar, an almost full renegade bar, chose a good amount of renegade lines and i almost always chose the renegade interrupts. There was only 2 or 3 minor renegade dialogue choices in mass effect 1 and 2 that I couldn't say because of timing but i didn't mind because i wouldn't of picked them anyway. The only choice i really wanted that i couldn't unlock was during tali's loyalty quest in me2, the renegade response was greyed out because that one is really really high and i didn't have enough renegade points at the time so i just picked the paragon response, but the paragon choice matched what my shepard would have said as well. The trick was doing certain quests and convo's before others so you could get enough points when it was really needed which was something alot of ppl didn't do and shouldn't of had to do.

yea lawful evil was exactly how i was planing on playing this time as well. I'm pretty much going to be really pro milky way or whatever organization were gonna be working for and kill anyone who gets in the way of the ultimate goal of said organization. Of course it won't be that basic and ill have to wait to see who were gonna be allied with first but that's the plan for now.

[straykat]

I guess I see my main Shep as heavy R in ME1, neutral in 2, P in 3. It works out for me, but I miss some cool moments in 2. Being neutral greys out some good things. The only one I can get is the earliest -- Miranda and Jack's rivalry spat. Or at least, I do their missions early. Theirs are the first ones available, besides Jacob.

[LAZERAK47]

Renegade wasn't truly evil (though extremely questionable). It was a philosophy that the end justified the means. Say what you want about Renegade Shep's decisions (like letting the council die, for example), but his actions saved countless lives several times over (it was the Council's inaction that led to the loss of many lives, so you could reason that the biggest threat to the galaxy was the bureaucracy).

 

It's like Ruthless/Aggressive Hawke in DA2. He won't win any popularity contests, but he gets the job done.

 

Although the potential for an evil MC in ME:A is there, since Ryder isn't military, so he/she could be a self-serving villain. It would be interesting to see, though it would take significant work in terms of story-telling (there is no way in hell that a hero and villain would end up with the same story, the moral deviation would not permit it).

[AngryFrozenWater]

Paragon often turns into being nice and renegade into being snarky. Most of the time no real choices are made, so the answers end up being rationalizations to achieve the same goal. And those choices that actually select something rarely lead to consequences. Killing the rachni queen in ME1? I'll remember huge threads back in the day of ME1 on the old forums about the significance of killing her or not. Of course all for naught. In practice it meant: No worries, she'll be replaced by another queen in ME3 and the mission plays out much the same. At best she'll turn into a meaningless war asset that was reduced to an abstract number.

 

And to me it means that if the dialogue is one long chain of rationalizations then it hurts the story.

 

Instead of improving upon it, it looks like BW is cutting it altogether, like they often do instead of improving a feature. Though, I must say that in ME3 they tried a reputation system. However, that was so vague, that I could hardly tell the difference between that and the old system.

 

It appears that in ME:A paragon and renegade will disappear to make way for more grey. Most people seem to be paragon and renegade is a minority (according to a BW panel I saw), so I wonder who will actually like it. If all options turn out to be grey then most likely the old renegade fans will like it, but the paragon fans will scratch their head.

 

I really hope I'm wrong, though, 'cause I want the game to succeed.

[Ahriman]

Although the potential for an evil MC in ME:A is there, since Ryder isn't military, so he/she could be a self-serving villain.

Ryder is para-military, it will be pretty much just like being a Spectre, except with less awe from others.

[thepiebaker]

On the DnD alignment scale paragon is LG and renegade is CG. I would love if the morality of ME:A at least had an alignment along the lines of LE, NE, or CE.

[The Ascendant]

I would prefer more pragmatism than just stupid evil. Lawful evil, order and pragmatism are what I like in my villains and anti-heroes. 

[fhs33721]

 renegade is CG.

It is really not. The various renegade options more range from "the end justifies the means" over "xenophobic douchebag" all the way to "being a sociopahtic d*ck just for the sake of being a sociopathic d*ck"

[UpUpAway95]

Here's an idea I had... Keep the Paragon/Renegade system - that is, keep the range of dialogue such that there are still several places where the player can choose between black and white dialogue and a couple of different "in between" lines as well.  If the player chooses a black or white dialogue line, have the game accumulate paragon or renegade points... BUT, instead of associating choices with the gain or loss of dialogue (which ultimately limits character personality shaping options for the player)... just have the game issue a special item just before the end run (gun, armor piece, power, etc.) - one for a high enough renegade score overall and a different one for a high enough paragon score overall that you can carry over in an NG+ game.  This should encourage players to eventually a least try 1 playthrough in each direction, but wouldn't discourage them from selecting options if they wanted to be really focused on shaping the story and their PC's character.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

Renegade wasn't truly evil (though extremely questionable). It was a philosophy that the end justified the means. Say what you want about Renegade Shep's decisions (like letting the council die, for example), but his actions saved countless lives several times over (it was the Council's inaction that led to the loss of many lives, so you could reason that the biggest threat to the galaxy was the bureaucracy).

 

 

 

The problem is that at the end even at the end of ME1 where you talk to Udina and Anderson and you pick who will be the new human councilor, there is a dialogue option where Shepard openly admits that killing the Council was basically a way to assassinate them and to let humanity take over. My feeling is that while the renegade might have started out as an "ends justified means" type personality, but that is always a path down the dark side that can be used in justifying everything from bigotry to crimes to war to genocide. Both in-game and in real life.  

[straykat]

It is really not. The various renegade options more range from "the end justifies the means" over "xenophobic douchebag" all the way to "being a sociopahtic d*ck just for the sake of being a sociopathic d*ck"

 

Some are mostly harmless replies or cooler ways of saying the same thing as Paragon. edit: Or maybe "casual" is the right word. Not necessarily cooler.

[Xen]

It makes the whole synthetic shenanigans seem like small potatoes. I guess it helps that I also saved the rachni. It'd be interesting to see what would happen there.

Not really. The krogan as a collective are comical fools. They only pose a "threat" if given FTL technology they are incapable of coming up with themselves. They can be completely controlled for 1400 years by a disease that takes a single individual from a more capable species a few months to cure. They're probably the least threatening spacefairing species in the galaxy. Consider that even the Volus have a fleet (including a Dreadnought), and thus the capacity to bomb Tuchanka into an uninhabitable wasteland (an actual wasteland akin to Venus or a barren, zero atmosphere rock), or break it in half with asteroid strikes, and the krogan could do **** all to stop them except trying to headbutt away hypervelocity ordinance.

 

Technology > redundant organs. Battletoads need less Wreavs and more Fortacks to ever amount to anything more than expendable cannon fodder. The Rachni would have overrun primitive Tuchanka as an afterthought without the salarians.

 

Contrast with the Geth, which can build and replace platforms at a rate only limited by raw resources (so make an even better horde) and come up with actual tech improvements, this despite being deliberately a highly gimped form of AI. Unless you've got glorious Quarians to stomp them with science, you're boned.

 

The rest of the galaxy knew this, that's why they were too afraid to ever take the fight to the toasters. No one fears the krogan. We laugh at them.