216 réponses à ce sujet

[Laughing_Man]

It's the other way around. The rules of reality are being bent and broken and torn about all the time. Science-fiction technology is, basically, magic. That's no different than magical force fields, anti-bullet armour, etc. Having magic anti-bullet armour is no different than having magic stun bullets. Or stun lasers. Or whatever. 

 

Magic does not give you an excuse to ignore logic entirely.

 

It's always easier to destroy something than it is to gently disable it, magic or no magic.

 

I can accept sneaking up on someone and stunning him somehow, but in open battle, deadly weapons should be at least ten times more effective than any Sci-fi taser, simply because any stun weapon by its very nature has to be used carefully, or it will become deadly as well.

 

Your enemy on the other hand, is a Krogan (with all the biology it implies, take that into account if you want to "stun" him, if that's even possible) wielding an automatic shotgun the size of an LMG, and is happily content to make chunky salsa out of you.

[Seraphim24]

There shouldn't be any "evil" options. We're playing a hero who's finding new homes for the races of the Milky Way. There's no place for mustache-twirling and traintrack-roping. There shouldn't even be a "Paragon or Renegade" system. It's so simplistic and antithetical to RPing. Color-coding choices to help you fill a bar graph is moronic. Morality choices should be handled like every other dialog choice. Things like "Throw the traitor in a cell" and "Execute the traitor" should not require colors to communicate morality.

 

That makes a lot of assumptions... what if this "nice mission to save humanity" is run by people who are total twits? These "people" who sent me on a trip to the Milky Way and are making all these insane demands on my time and energy are the problem, for starters we literally don't even need to leave the Milk Way in the first place.

 

These "But you have to do this because we're good" our exactly the types that should be targeted by the Renegade approach.

[Killroy]

That makes a lot of assumptions... what if this "nice mission to save humanity" is run by people who are total twits? These "people" who sent me on a trip to the Milky Way and are making all these insane demands on my time and energy are the problem, for starters we literally don't even need to leave the Milk Way in the first place.

 

These "But you have to do this because we're good" our exactly the types that should be targeted by the Renegade approach.

 

This is gibberish.

[Seraphim24]

^

 

Really? All the characters in the game are completely infallible? If it really comes off as a good idea, then... well... that should be obvious to the player and you don't have to worry about the "renegade option" ever getting used.

 

As it is, the mere fact that they prohibit disagreement is a huge problem. If possible, I would like, in the game, the option as a player character to just kill all the members of the Normandy MEA space team (whatever they ultimately are in the game) that sent you there and the rest of Space command, simply for the sin of coercion against me, the player.

 

Of course IRL I can just play a different game, there's no actual coercion of course, but that kind of thing is just always wrong IMO.

 

Well to be fair a degree of coercion is perhaps expected in all kinds of things, but I mean certainly in a video game with that level that's kind of the point of the medium is to push boundaries and certainly one way is to let you... you know... go your own way in the face of a heavily pre-written plot.

[Killroy]

^

 

Really? All the characters in the game are completely infallible? If it really comes off as a good idea, then... well... that should be obvious to the player and you don't have to worry about the "renegade option" ever getting used.

 

As it is, the mere fact that they prohibit disagreement is a huge problem. If possible, I would like, in the game, the option to just kill all the members of the team that sent you there and the rest of Space command, simply for the sin of coercion against me, the player.

 

Of course IRL I can just play a different game, there's no actual coercion of course, but that kind of thing is just always wrong IMO.

 

Are you drunk?

[Seraphim24]

Believe it or not that was basically an option in the earlier Bioware games, in BG or KOTOR you could play all evil and I did a few times a bit, just kind of wrecking the countryside and all the people, most people were just trying to get by, but plenty of people were always making pretty severe demands on your for no reason. In those games, the player could just kill anyone they came across, practically, similar to GTA and others.

 

It's not about just "doing evil" there is a trigger or reaction to coercion in the games that make them unique.

 

I mean there was still a "main plot" but the amount of freedom was considerably greater. In MEA it's all pre-written, but it would be a better experience if players were offered that renegade option.

 

So... no?

[Seraphim24]

Anyway, as stated coercion can occur in all kinds of ways, Passive aggressive, aggressive, commands, force... and so yeah essentially that's what the MEA team is and everything about the mission is some higher up ordering X, Y, or Z to happen, as opposed to earlier Bioware games that promoted choice and such, as well as a reaction to it.

 

Ironically in those instances when people don't attempt to coerce and promote choice, I'm very likely to pick the option they would of wanted anyway.

[straykat]

It's kind of sad though.. because I thought this team made use of Renegade/Paragon better than the other games.

 

If you see the variations of Aria in the Omega DLC, you know what I mean. If they could do something like that in a whole game, it'd be pretty entertaining.

 

My favorite was going Paragon on her a lot, but finally giving to Renegade at the end. "Hah... look who's the hardass now!"

[Seraphim24]

I kind of agree actually... I was thinking of KOTOR and BG but it's in the ME proper trilogy as well, pretty good at times, it's MEA that looks like the problem.

[Killroy]

Anyway, as stated coercion can occur in all kinds of ways, Passive aggressive, aggressive, commands, force... and so yeah essentially that's what the MEA team is and everything about the mission is some higher up ordering X, Y, or Z to happen, as opposed to earlier Bioware games that promoted choice and such, as well as a reaction to it.

 

Ironically in those instances when people don't attempt to coerce and promote choice, I'm very likely to pick the option they would of wanted anyway.

 

Are you sure you're not drunk? Because you're making stuff up and rambling like a drunkard. 

[The Twilight God]

So I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I sometimes like to play all the dark side in Bio games, whether that's KOTOR, SWTOR.

 

It's just more fulfilling, to me personally, to stand by "the man" so to speak, (or maybe, the woman?) not much of a rebel, myself. And most of the time their "rugged invidualism" is just a thin veneer to enforce tyranny in it's place, blergh to that.

 

But now I keep hearing about the "No more renegade or paragon" or just even worse, "nothing but gray"

 

Screw gray, gray is the ugliest color, as I stated before in that other thread.

 

It's like, well what if I don't want to follow Normandy Space Alliance Space Control Command, operation Twilight Hunger Games, and bulging with a combination of romance and fetishes?

 

I guess ME2 is people's reference for this but I don't know I thought they were kind of flimsily handled at times.

 

So yes I started this thread because I'm curious if anyone else wants to see more evil options that don't follow these Hallway Monitor codes of conduct all the time, and instead independent develop a compass or are otherwise less inclined to go that "Free individual" thing-a-majig.

 

In conjunction with my other threads "More heroism please" and "less whining please" I would like them to be sort of like heroically evil, and I most certainly don't want it to consist of whining, that's all the "Paragon" options for the most part anyway.

 

Thank you.

 

I believe "grey" refers to the idea that there are no obvious best and/or right responses akin to Dragon Age. The player can no longer pick the blue option and know that they will have the best possible outcome. There will still be violent, dickish, bad boy options as well as peaceful, samaritan, nice guy options. It's just that now the nice guy options can have negative repercussions.  Although this is Bioware and they are known pathological liars when it comes to game marketing. I wouldn't be surprised if they just changed the colors to yellow and green and it be the exact same system as previous ME titles.

[Xen]

No thanks. The previous games already tried to imply I was Josef Mengele just because I wanted to take apart a dangerous malfunctioning robot. Meanwhile, supporting brutal, imperialist krogan dictators and meticulously enacting the Final Solution on the space jews are both considered good actions. 

 

Biower has a warped sense of morality when it comes to "evil", and would probably tie completely rational choices behind hysterical pathos ridden garbage.

[straykat]

 

 

Biower has a warped sense of morality when it comes to "evil".

 

They're commies, of course.

 

Wait, they didn't care for the Final Solution either. hmm..

[Xen]

They're commies, of course.

 

Wait, they didn't care for the Final Solution either. hmm..

Hey, Stalin wasn't so bad. He racked up a smaller bodycount in 20 years than the "Paragon" PC can in about 20 seconds.

 

Hardly should be surpised, though. These are the same people who thought assimilating everyone into the Borg Collective was the "best" ending.

[Seboist]

Hey, Stalin wasn't so bad. He racked up a smaller bodycount in 20 years than the "Paragon" PC can in about 20 seconds.

 

Hardly should be surpised, though. These are the same people who thought assimilating everyone into the Borg Collective was the "best" ending.

Synthesis is such derp, but the worst bit about it is that we don't even have a proper "Reapers win" ending.

[Xen]

Synthesis is such derp, but the worst bit about it is that we don't even have a proper "Reapers win" ending.

Get everyone killed on the Suicide Mission, maybe? I guess that's non-canon now.

 

Biower had the chance with Refuse, but they didn't have the balls to truly double down on the" you lose" middle finger to the ending whiners. Instead, Liara's Mary Sueish-ness apparently transcends cycles.

[Seboist]

Get everyone killed on the Suicide Mission, maybe? I guess that's non-canon now.

 

Biower had the chance with Refuse, but they didn't have the balls to truly double down on the" you lose" middle finger to the ending whiners. Instead, Liara's Mary Sueish-ness apparently transcends cycles.

That's the closest we get to that kind of thing, yea, but the "everyone dies" with the collector base intact provides some vague hope though. Thing is, Shepard's mission is still successful regardless of the fact that everyone died.

 

That refuse ending is comical given that Shepard refuses to use the crucible due to his own petty ego and thus, needlessly sacrifices countless lives, and then it turns out the next cycle uses it(and presumably triumphs).

[In Exile]

Get everyone killed on the Suicide Mission, maybe? I guess that's non-canon now.

 

Biower had the chance with Refuse, but they didn't have the balls to truly double down on the" you lose" middle finger to the ending whiners. Instead, Liara's Mary Sueish-ness apparently transcends cycles.

Refuse is a Reapers win ending, because the people who are going to pick it are the ones who think using the Crucible is them winning. Well, next cycle grips the idiot ball a little less tightly and there you go. Plus, the Reapers turn everyone into slurpee, soo... they do win the war. 

[themikefest]

Synthesis is such derp, but the worst bit about it is that we don't even have a proper "Reapers win" ending.

 The green ending was made for comedians to use for their opening act to get the crowd warmed up.

 

I shoot the tube. I have no reason to choose the green and the game gives me no reason to choose it

 

That refuse ending is comical given that Shepard refuses to use the crucible due to his own petty ego and thus, needlessly sacrifices countless lives, and then it turns out the next cycle uses it(and presumably triumphs).

For that brief moment, Shepard talks big, but when the thing says so be it and walks away, Shepard looked small realizing she/he no longer is Commander Shepard, but Commander dumba**

[The Twilight God]

Refuse is a Reapers win ending, because the people who are going to pick it are the ones who think using the Crucible is them winning. Well, next cycle grips the idiot ball a little less tightly and there you go. Plus, the Reapers turn everyone into slurpee, soo... they do win the war. 

 

Refuse, Synthesis and Control are all Reaper-win endings.

[KaiserShep]

Refuse, Synthesis and Control are all Reaper-win endings.

 

Control is debatable, because technically, the Catalyst is overwritten by Shepard. Fair to say that this could be considered its "death". 

[straykat]

Control is debatable, because technically, the Catalyst is overwritten by Shepard. Fair to say that this could be considered its "death". 

 

I just think it's doing the same thing TIM and Kai Leng rambled on about. That evolution was only through the Reapers or somesuch. So the Reapers win there too.

[Killdren88]

Refuse, Synthesis and Control are all Reaper-win endings.

^ This. Afterall the time spent in the trilogy, no negotiating, no trying to reason with them, they were perfectly happy with killing us all if not grinding us into DNA smoothies.. If was only then when we had the gun pointed at them they throw up their hands yelling "Let's not do anything stupid yeah?" Then give us all the options that are more or less in their favor. No, that is BS. They die for their crimes. The only thing I am sad about picking  destroy is that EDI and the Geth have to die for their crimes along with them.

[Laughing_Man]

Refuse, Synthesis and Control are all Reaper-win endings.

 

Indeed, which makes it all the more strange that the Catalyst would even offer you the option of Destroy.

 

It simply makes zero sense from its perspective to allow an insect to destroy everything it was trying to achieve and all the races it "preserved".

[fhs33721]

Refuse, Synthesis and Control are all Reaper-win endings.

The Reapers win in all endings. Even in Destroy you only "win" against them, because they let you win against them.