Questa discussione ha avuto 216 risposte

[UpUpAway95]

Why are we back to yet another thread where everybody is just reiterating ME3 ending they picked/prefered?

[Seraphim24]

I don't know, to be honest.

 

All I want is in the game MEA the option to just kill any old person you come across or things of that nature, since for an RPG to mean "choice" it has mean "choices you don't want to give the other person." 

 

If someone in the game was like "Oh well... we can't do it that way, because Alliance Space Command.." I'd just want to send them flying.

 

I want to send the whole pre-written artistic nonsense narrative that will invariably be appended to my game to be thrown out the space window because all kinds of reasons.

[The Twilight God]

Control is debatable, because technically, the Catalyst is overwritten by Shepard. Fair to say that this could be considered its "death".

Is it overwritten? Is it even THE Intelligence? For all we know it's just a Reaper communicating to Shepard via hallucination like at the end of Arrival. It certainly isn't the Citadel as ME1 cannot exist if it were and the Reapers made the Citadel and the intelligence predates the Reapers. What I do know is that that blue lighting huskifies Shepard prior to disintegrating his body and that that same blue lighting effect was used by Mac Walters in the TIM origin comic as the Arca Monolith's means of turning people into living husks. I also know that the control console was already there BEFORE the Crucible docked. so whatever it's purpose it's something the Reapers made for their own sake.

So I find it highly unlikely that Control in any way, shape or form doesn't give the Reapers a win. I'm certain that the Cycles continue as that is the only via conclusion given the narrative. As far as I'm concerned all non-destroy endings are equivalent to Refuse. The next cycle gets Liara's message and stops the Shreaperds.

[In Exile]

I see your point. It's turtles all the way down.

[The Twilight God]

Indeed, which makes it all the more strange that the Catalyst would even offer you the option of Destroy.
 
It simply makes zero sense from its perspective to allow an insect to destroy everything it was trying to achieve and all the races it "preserved".

The entire ending sequence was absurd. EDI would have been talking Shepard through the whole thing.

TL:DR
I surmise that to ignore destroy would immediately cast suspicion on the Kid. He has to bring it up to seem impartial. But he quickly makes Destroy out to be this cataclysmic disaster and makes his options, Control and Synthesis, to look like the perfect act with no negative ramifications. It makes perfect sense to me.

The long answer

Option 1: Destroy the Reapers

"We destroy them, or they destroy us."

The Kid is not a fool. It is wise to put this option on the table first as it is going to be the first and only thing on Shepard’s (or the player's) mind. In fact, it is the very first inquiry Shepard makes after introductions are made asking, “I need to stop the Reapers. Do you know how I can do that?” The Kid knows that it has to tackle the most obvious threat to its continuation before it can even bother to introduce its own suggestions. If it tried to tiptoe around the Destroy option it would garner immediate suspicion and its motivations would be brought into question. The Reapers' only hope is to maintain the illusion of impartiality and otherwise convince Shepard (and the player) that their two options are simply more beneficial. But at the same time the Kid cannot portray Destroy too harshly or it risks appearing biased right from the start. The Kid has to play it safe and smart. Although in the throes of an indoctrination attempt, Shepard has not been fully indoctrinated; but he is highly susceptible to suggestion.

It immediately begins to paint a dire picture. The negativity associated with Destroy will form the baseline for making its upcoming options more palatable. The Kid says, "But be warned: others will be destroyed as well. The crucible will not discriminate. All synthetics will be targeted. Even you are partly synthetic.” It further adds, “Technology you rely on will be affected.” It is implied that Shepard will have to sacrifice his friend, EDI, and his new Geth allies; Trivializing his work in securing a peace with the Quarians and discarding the sacrifice of his friend Legion, negating a prime example of peaceful cooperation which flies in the face of the Kid's assertions about organic-synthetic relations.

Oh, and don't forget that "The Chaos" will return. Can't have that, right? Shepard does not challenge this assertion. However, this is the least of Shepard's display of ambivalence as will be covered in later segments of this thesis. Shepard's lethargic tendency to trust the enemy's assertions actually make sense in an indoctrination scenario.

This entire exchange is intended to make Shepard hesitate and second guess his objective. The Kid also notes that Shepard’s body contains synthetic parts to imply that the Crucible will target him as well. It wishes to remove self preservation as a factor in Shepard's decision. Not only that, but it brings into question rather or not the Crucible may hurt or kill multitudes of innocent people who depend on synthetic technology for their survival in an event which could be described as a technological apocalypse. In this way Shepard's decision is weighed solely on the supposed negatives associated with destroying the Reapers verses the apparent lack of negatives (in comparison) associated with the Kid's upcoming suggestions. [It implies Shepard will die as well as Kasumi (grey box), the Quarians (suits) and anyone who relies of artificial organs or any form of life support. It would potentially deactivate every ship, turning the fleet into a floating coffins for their crews. Communications equipment - everything - is downed. Civilization is knocked back to a "stone age".]

The Crucible is made out to be the equivalent of a sawed-off shotgun being used to create an incision for open eye surgery. Now that the Reapers have soured the taste of using the Crucible for its intended purpose they offer their own suggestions. Shepard has not been fully indoctrinated, but he is susceptible to suggestions. Shepard was clearly not all there and the Kid is playing on that fact.

[TevinterSupremacist]

ME doesn't let you divert from the good guy path though. The "different" paths have usually fairly comparable if not identical outcomes, you just get there by being rough or by being diplomatic. Better evil choices would be great, but we don't get truly evil, selfish choices. We just get ruthless ones.

[The Twilight God]

The Reapers win in all endings. Even in Destroy you only "win" against them, because they let you win against them.

They die. You're going to have to explain in detail how the Reapers being destroyed is a win for them.

Because as I see it...

1. The demise of the Reapers does not in any way, shape or form compromise with the Kid.
2. The demise of the Intelligence does not in any way, shape or form compromise with the Kid.
3. The end of the Cycle of Extinction does not in any way, shape or form compromise with the Kid.
4. The freedom to self-determinate does not in any way, shape or form compromise with the Kid.
5. The continued coexistence of synthetics and organics does not in any way, shape or form compromise with the Kid.

I don't see any caveat were the Reapers' destruction could benefit their goals.

I'm not even seeing how they let you win. There is not much they can do to stop you at that point. The problem is bad story telling decisions on the part of the writers. EDI would have been the one telling you that there is this thing stopping the Crucible from firing and that you need to destroy it. In every mission like this in ME2 she was always on the comms feeding Shepard info. All of a sudden she is silent and not paying any attention for the sake of the contrived decision chamber.

[TheRatPack55]

ME doesn't let you divert from the good guy path though. The "different" paths have usually fairly comparable if not identical outcomes, you just get there by being rough or by being diplomatic. Better evil choices would be great, but we don't get truly evil, selfish choices. We just get ruthless ones.

 

Honestly, we get perhaps 20% ruthless choices, and the other 80% is being rude or otherwise douchy for rude and douchy's sake, even if it jeopardizes the mission. And the outcome is pretty much the same, yeah, except for the parts where it makes the renegade choice the wrong choice outright. It's just a really poorly implemented mechanic overall.

[fhs33721]

I'm not even seeing how they let you win. There is not much they can do to stop you at that point.

Except not activating that eleavator in the first place? Or not telling you anything? Or turning the whole thing off like they are apparently capable of doing as seen in the Refuse ending? What are you gonna do then? Bleed on their floor angrily?

[The Twilight God]

Except not activating that eleavator in the first place? Or not telling you anything? Or turning the whole thing off like they are apparently capable of doing as seen in the Refuse ending? What are you gonna do then? Bleed on their floor angrily?

It didn't activate the elevator. Disagree? Prove it. In one scenario it asks Shepard why he's there so the notion that it activated the elevator is just a fan theory.

The Kid can turn Control and Synthesis on and off. It cannot turn off the Crucible. Look at the Refuse ending on YouTube. The Crucible is still very much active. The thing you shoot is what I term the "Crucible Suppression Device". It keeps it from doing its one and only function: Destroy. This can all be proven via in-game content/dialog.

Very few people critically examined the game. Which if why we get comments like yours which are the product of baseless (and downright incorrect) assumptions.

[fhs33721]

It didn't activate the elevator. Disagree? Prove it. In one scenario it asks Shepard why he's there so the notion that it activated the elevator is just a fan theory.

I can play the same game. Prove that the Cataclyst didn't activate the elevator. And for that matter, what else did in the case it wasn't the cataclyst? Magic? The flying Spagetthi Monster?  The elven gods?

 

The Kid can turn Control and Synthesis on and off. It cannot turn off the Crucible. Look at the Refuse ending on YouTube. The Crucible is still very much active. The thing you shoot is what I term the "Crucible Suppression Device". It keeps it from doing its one and only function: Destroy. This can all be proven via in-game content/dialog.

See, now this is an entirely baseless assumption just as much as mine. All the endings use the same beam in the middle to spam whatever color you decide to go with. The very same beam that gets shut down in Refuse.

Also I want you to back up that claim abbout destroy being the one and oly function. Prove it. Show me actual dialogue (from in the game and not just from the back corners of your own mind) that proves it. And no Andersons: "We destroy them, or they destroy us." is not prove of that.

 

Very few people critically examined the game. Which if why we get comments like yours which are the product of baseless (and downright incorrect) assumptions.

As opposed to baseless assumptions by your clearly superior intellect that has gleamed all the secrets of the universe from this somewaht decent video game plot? Excuse my ignorance your radiance. Please enlighten this wretched world with your superior knowledge oh chosen one.

[themikefest]

I can play the same game. Prove that the Cataclyst didn't activate the elevator. And for that matter, what else did in the case it wasn't the cataclyst? Magic? The flying Spagetthi Monster?  The elven gods?

I choose the flying spagetti monster. hahaha

What bothers me is that when the Citadel was built, the reapers, for some reason, put platform put there to rise up to the decision chamber. Did the intelligence foresee an organic passing out on that very platform that would take the organic up to its lair?
 

[straykat]

 

See, now this is an entirely baseless assumption just as much as mine. All the endings use the same beam in the middle to spam whatever color you decide to go with. The very same beam that gets shut down in Refuse.

Also I want you to back up that claim abbout destroy being the one and oly function. Prove it. Show me actual dialogue (from in the game and not just from the back corners of your own mind) that proves it. And no Andersons: "We destroy them, or they destroy us." is not prove of that.

 

It was built by mortals, for one. Not the Catalyst. So Destroy is probably a given. While else would countless cycles build it? While Synthesis is something the Catalyst only finds possible now. A new "hack" if you will.

 

And at the minimum EMS and in it's most default state, Destroy or Control are dependent on your choice from ME2 and the Collectors. I'm gonna call Control as a new feature too, just for being dependent on these new features. But the older cycles might've never considered it. They predate all of these things. Unless this conflict between you and TIM keeps happening? That's possible too.

[fhs33721]

I choose the flying spagetti monster. hahaha

What bothers me is that when the Citadel was built, the reapers, for some reason, put platform put there to rise up to the decision chamber. Did the intelligence foresee an organic passing out on that very platform that would take the organic up to its lair?
 

So, flying Spagetti monster confirmed as main antagonist for MEA?

 

Yeah, the lift doesn't make much sense. Maybe it's a leftover from when the Cataclyst was still working for the Leviathans and it was for organics to go up and talk to it (along the lines of: "Hey intelligence, how is that task we gave you coming along?") ? But then it probably should be much bigger since Leviathans are massive.

[The Twilight God]

I can play the same game. Prove that the Cataclyst didn't activate the elevator. And for that matter, what else did in the case it wasn't the cataclyst? Magic? The flying Spagetthi Monster?  The elven gods?

Actually you can't play the same game. I don't have to prove a negative. Using your logic would be akin to saying that there is a pink unicorn on Pluto and it's a fact until someone disproves that statement. The burden of proof is one you, the person making the positive assertion.

I find it comical that you fan theorize an explanation and your only "evidence" in support of your theory is your inability to conceive any other possibility. Ha! Anyway, the Crucible docking could have activated it (which is my theory). More specifically, it coincided with the Citadel fully opening (i.e. going into relay mode(?)). It's never made clear, but the visuals provided support this assumption.

Furthermore, your idea brings up the question of why the Kid didn't just use the Citadel systems to kill Shepard and Anderson via vacuum or asphyxiation. Or trap them in their respective corridors by deactivating the doorways. Not to mention that in some scenarios it asks Shepard why he is there. As if it's surprised to see him. Which is why I cannot support the idea that the Kid lifts the platform.
 

See, now this is an entirely baseless assumption just as much as mine. All the endings use the same beam in the middle to spam whatever color you decide to go with. The very same beam that gets shut down in Refuse.
Also I want you to back up that claim abbout destroy being the one and oly function. Prove it. Show me actual dialogue (from in the game and not just from the back corners of your own mind) that proves it. And no Andersons: "We destroy them, or they destroy us." is not prove of that.

No, actually it was very thoroughly thought out. Hence, my last statement "This can all be proven via in-game content/dialog".

You are once again incorrect. The beam shuts down during Destroy. Only in Control and Synthesis does it remain active. Again, please review the relevant footage. It gets annoying when I tell people to go check something for themselves, they don't and then continue spewing the same ignorance they could have easily rectified with a YouTube search. I am the Mass Effect Loremaster Supreme™. I know my stuff. The beam is something being generated by the Citadel, not the Crucible. Go and see. Look at each ending.
 

From:https://forum.biowar...con/?p=11724967

Here is my deductive process:

1. The Crucible docks, but is not doing anything noticeable.
2. The power conduit is eliminated violently.
3. The Crucible arms itself and fires.
4. It is thus deduced that something was preventing the Crucible from firing while the power conduit remained intact and functional.
5. The destruction of the power conduit terminated whatever condition existed that prevented the Crucible from arming.
6. The power conduit was either itself, or was powering, something that prevented the Crucible from firing. This would be the "Crucible Suppression Device" I mentioned earlier.
7. In the absence of this suppressing condition the Crucible initiates the destruction of the Reapers without any direct input from Shepard or any action that could be construed as normal usage of the contraption beneath it.
8. Conclusion #1: The Crucible's default function is to destroy reaper technology.
9. It has been confirmed in the very opening of this segment that the contraption at eye level is NOT a part of the Crucible.
10. Upon the destruction of the power conduit the beam running down the center of the Citadel chasm deactivates.
11. It can therefore be deduced that the power conduit was either itself, or was powering, whatever it is that was generating the beam running down the Citadel chasm.
12. The Crucible arms itself, sends a pulse into the Citadel and fires despite the absence of this beam.
13. In both Control and Synthesis the beam remains active as the Crucible's tip ignites.
14. Conclusion #2: The beam is not a function of the Crucible itself.


Given the above facts, the Crucible can in no way be dependent upon the contraption at eye level to function as it is designed to arm automatically and operates independently of the beam. Furthermore, throughout all this we have to remember that Shepard does not flip a switch or push a button. He destroys a component of a contraption that is NOT part of the Crucible. I hypothesize that for Control and Synthesis to work the Citadel is siphoning the power of the Crucible to enact a function that exists within the Citadel. This would explain why the Kid is able to disable the beam at will (as seen in Refuse ending). The Crucible itself is still activate as you can still see the four energy beams converging on its tip when the Kid deactivates the beam. Also, the Crucible tip is still aglow.

That is just a snippet, but enough to make my case.
 

As opposed to baseless assumptions by your clearly superior intellect... [non-sequitor rubbish removed]

I don't make baseless assumptions. I will back up any of my claims with evidence.

I'll admit I have clearly superior observational skills compared to you. I'll postpone my judgment on your intelligence for the time being.

[fhs33721]

You are once again incorrect. The beam shuts down during Destroy. Only in Control and Synthesis does it remain active. Again, please review the relevant footage.

I did. I can't make out any difference aside from the color. Its literally the same cutscene (Aside from Synthesis where there is green nonsense being spammed around the beam already before the explosion at the top). Beam connects crubcile with citadel-> sudden [insert color here] explosion at the top of it (beam appers to be out/not visible due to glaring [insert color here light] anymore during this in all endings)->cut to far away view of crubcile glowing [insert color here] withj Normandy flying by in the front.

[The Twilight God]

I did. I can't make out any difference aside from the color. Its literally the same cutscene (Aside from Synthesis where there is green nonsense being spammed around the beam already before the explosion at the top). Beam connects crubcile with citadel-> sudden [insert color here] explosion at the top of it (beam appers to be out/not visible due to glaring [insert color here light] anymore during this in all endings)->cut to far away view of crubcile glowing [insert color here] withj Normandy flying by in the front.

Here I go hand feeding people like children.

Pay attention now...

It happens at the 37 second mark:

In Control it remains and can be seen clearly at the bottom area of the screen prior to the shot changing. Synthesis makes it even bigger and more beamy.