12 réponses à ce sujet

[Guanxii]

Much to do about Barrier, Fortification, DM & Tech Armor

 

Had a deliciously good gameplay idea i'd like to share about what BioWare could do with these defensive powers to make them more worthwhile 

in Andromeda and i'd like to get the community's take on it. 

 

They've always felt like a wasted opportunity to me and a real waste of a bonus/power slot given the ready availability of better alternatives 

like Energy Drain, etc. and lack of overall utility. 

 

BioWare admirably tried to differentiate them in ME3 but these additions generally detracted from the defensive properties of them;

Purging your armor ability for special effects in the middle of combat was generally counter-productive by making you completely vulnerable in tight spaces without defences given the need to use them in close range. I'd like to suggest an alternative approach where these defensive powers are now class specific and replace the fitness skill tree(s) from ME3. Every combat specialist should be at peak fitness - to not do so is dereliction of duty. 

 

We could still have a variation of these special abilities attached to these defensive powers introduced in ME3 but these effects could instead be passively active and not dependent on armor purging which would co-incidentally free up a bonus/power slot on each class to accommodate extra room on the power wheel (for non-passive powers). These passive effects could be tailored via the skill tree evolutions, e.g. 

 

 

Fortification (Soldier)

Passive effects: Damage Protection or Extra Melee Damage evolutions

 

Tactical Matrix (Infiltrator)

Passive effect: Damage Protection or 'Hunter Mode' evolutions

 

Defense Matrix (Engineer)

Passive effect: Damage Protection or Shield Drain

 

Tech Armor (Sentinel)

Passive effect: Damage Protection or Extra Tech Damage

 

Barrier (Adept)

Passive effect: Damage Protection or Barrier Drain

 

Fortified Barrier (Vanguard)

Passive effects: Damage Protection or Power & Melee Damage

 

Thoughts?

[Monk]

So you're just making them passive? I don't see anything wrong with that. More direct damage powers for the win.

[Guanxii]

So you're just making them passive? I don't see anything wrong with that. More direct damage powers for the win.

 

Yeah like unique versions of fitness for each class with a unique visual effect to help further differentiate them. Total available potential damage reduction needn't necessarily be the same for each (i.e. tech armor on sentinels might have an extra 10%) and you'd have a choice within the skill tree evolutions between damage reduction and effectiveness of the special ability properties it has. For example Barrier in the case of the Adept:

 

Level 4: +5% Damage Reduction or +30% Barrier Drain Radius

Level 5: +15% Barrier Regen Speed or +50% More Barrier Drain Effectiveness

Level 6: +10% Damage Reduction or +25% More Barrier Drain Effectiveness, +25% Shield Drain Effectiveness

[Guanxii]

I've thought for a while now that Nova should replace the vanguard's heavy melee attack by combining nova and fitness together because the current heavy melee has virtually no synergy with charge like nova does. Nova being a heavy melee attack also fits closer with established gameplay mechanics given that heavy melee attacks are also traditionally free of the cool down cycle. It also seems illogical that melee damage has no effect on nova when it's damage should be derived from both power and mêlée damage sources imo.

 

Combining fitness, barrier and nova together into a new vanguard power would also be a convenient gameplay explanation for why nova attacks deplete/draw from barrier. As a thought exercise I thought it would be interesting to imagine how this newly combined power which I'm calling 'Fortified Barrier' or just Nova perhaps for now might look in practice:

 

Level 4: +5% DR, or +30% Nova radius, +25% melee damage

Level 5: +15% Barrier Regen Speed or Half Blast (-25% Barrier usage, -25% melee damage)

Level 6: +10% DR or Pierce (+50% melee damage, +100% effectiveness against armor)

[Draining Dragon]

I love this idea so much.



Though...

Tactical Matrix (Infiltrator)
Passive effect: Damage Reduction or Combat Scanner Effectiveness

I would replace "Combat Scanner Effectiveness" with "Movement Speed."

[capn233]

Well one thing to keep in mind is that if everybody has DR then in reality nobody does because they are all getting hit for the same damage.

 

Personally I am not a huge fan of turning all these defensive powers into DR powers.  If you looked in ME1 and ME2, then damage reduction was really the domain of the combat classes, with Immunity and higher Damage Protection ratings in ME1, then Hardened Adrenaline Rush for ME2.

 

Barrier was on demand kinetic barrier buff in ME1 (independent of damage protection), and Tech Armor was similar as a shield buff in ME2.  I don't mind the secondary effects with Tech Armor, as it was part of the trademark.  With Barrier I am sort of on the fence.  Could potentially be a flat out replacement for Nova if that is made an evolution, but is in a way just a copy of TA.

 

If classes have distinct amount of health and shield bonuses, then the distinction between bonus shields and actual damage reduction starts to make a difference in how you approach building the class, and what gear is the more helpful.

[Guanxii]

Well one thing to keep in mind is that if everybody has DR then in reality nobody does because they are all getting hit for the same damage.

 

Personally I am not a huge fan of turning all these defensive powers into DR powers.  If you looked in ME1 and ME2, then damage reduction was really the domain of the combat classes, with Immunity and higher Damage Protection ratings in ME1, then Hardened Adrenaline Rush for ME2.

 

Barrier was on demand kinetic barrier buff in ME1 (independent of damage protection), and Tech Armor was similar as a shield buff in ME2.  I don't mind the secondary effects with Tech Armor, as it was part of the trademark.  With Barrier I am sort of on the fence.  Could potentially be a flat out replacement for Nova if that is made an evolution, but is in a way just a copy of TA.

 

If classes have distinct amount of health and shield bonuses, then the distinction between bonus shields and actual damage reduction starts to make a difference in how you approach building the class, and what gear is the more helpful.

 

If the health & shields were player level dependant and linear it would make balancing this system pretty straightforward. The amount of damage reduction you'd take (up to the max allowance for each class) would be entirely up to each player - they can skip the power completely and have absolutely non, max out the special ability perks and have minimal DR, go full DR or a mix of DR and special ability depending on the type of player they are. I think this would be a very elegant solution - both simple and flexible. I suppose the defensive powers needed all focus on DR, for the sake of variety some could offer straight shield bonuses or a mix of shield bonuses and DR for the defensive evolutions.

 

@​DrainingDragon I would replace "Combat Scanner Effectiveness" with "Movement Speed."

 

Funny that you mention movement speed, by 'combat scanner' I was thinking along the lines of a sort of Hunter Mode for organics built into an alternative to Defence Matrix. Providing extra movement speed bonuses to the 'hunter mode' inspired evolutions of the one designed for infiltrators would make sense given like 'Hunter Mode' it's supposed to replicate the feel of (tech induced) heightened senses.

[capn233]

If the health & shields were player level dependant and linear it would make balancing this system pretty straightforward. The amount of damage reduction you'd take (up to the max allowance for each class) would be entirely up to each player - they can skip the power completely and have absolutely non, max out the special ability perks and have minimal DR, go full DR or a mix of DR and special ability depending on the type of player they are. I think this would be a very elegant solution - both simple and flexible. I suppose the defensive powers needed all focus on DR, for the sake of variety some could offer straight shield bonuses or a mix of shield bonuses and DR for the defensive evolutions.

 

Right, but besides the DR v straight hit points buff issue I do not agree that every class should be able to gain the same amount of health, shields or damage reduction, and as such there shouldn't be a need to proliferate DR or defensive powers any further.

[Cyonan]

For starters, I wouldn't give an armour ability to everybody. If everybody is going to have 40% DR, just make the enemies do 40% less damage. It's the same effect.

 

Another idea I had a while ago was to include an evolution for something like Tech Armour so that when you lose your shields you automatically get a free detonation effect without actually dropping the armour. That way when you're injured, you get a damage/stagger effect around you without giving up your armour.

 

Something else that would help would be not having a purge animation that leaves you vulnerable, and keeping the DR for 3-4 seconds after a purge.

 

Otherwise the secondary effects seem nice but making them passive really isn't a change from how they were in ME3 since they were essentially just "fire and forget" abilities that you activated at the start of a mission and were good to go.

[Oni Changas]

Not a bad idea for Barrier but I think ME2's tech armor is the best implementation with ME3's Fortification being good as well.

[Abramsrunner]

These "passives" replacing Fitness idea that Guanxii has, is better than the current ME3 fitness (HP vs Melee Damage) tree that we have right now. DR in ME3 gameplay is just more effective HP anyway, & It'll free up a power slot for characters that have an activate, & forget power as well replacing the current flat boring Fitness tree. If we had something like this for ME:AMP, each character could have their own set of unique passives instead of most of the characters having the same fitness tree.

 

Who would do a non joke, Melee Human Enigneer build in ME3MP anyway? And fitness on most 500/500, or 500/600 HP characters isn't even worth it on gold, & plat outside of DoTs

[Norhik Krios]

I'd prefer a complete overhaul of the "talent system" in the trilogy anyway. Many more, smaller but more precise talents, more points, more depths. I don't like to choose between 2 passive abilities with 3 perks and 2 of the 3 perks are complete garbage, or things I don't need. Then you skill something like health, or melee damage, and suddenly you get to grenade damage or headshot damage amplifier... that's bad game design.

But as I've heard, it's going to be a better RPG experience, so my hopes for skills, that slowly but gradually increase, even small things, like movement or dodge speed, are still there. I personally like the DAI protection system, where you can get guard, barrier or else back or build it up by attacking. I like that concept.

I can imagine myself "draining" lifeforce of my opponents as an elite adept and building up my biotic barrier. Just have the barrier be non-auto rechargeable at the very start of the game, but being able to add things like barrier regeneration, barrier strength, depletion, barrier size and utility, for example being able to shield allies by just standing next to them when having a barrier up. Things like that make a game so much more immersive and rewarding.

A little bit of skyrim or gta san andreas, where you basically gain strength while playing the game, running around, getting shot, using biotics/tech, dodging, just anything that rewards you for being active, having fun with the game and not rushing from one objective to the next just so you can get through the game and be done with it.

[Guanxii]

All combat specialists already have either barrier or shielding in gameplay terms so the idea that not every class should have built in damage reduction abilities is a bit silly. All i'm saying is why not let us customize our character's barrier (or shields in the case of engineers, etc.) in skill tree menu in place of fitness?

 

Each class's protective skill e.g. barrier could have alternate (class specific) properties (skill tree options) you can spec into if you don't care about enhancing the durability of your defences, alternatively you could just skip this skill altogether as with fitness in ME3. Fitness itself could be replaced by having total available health/shields rise in line with the player's level.

 

Every class protection type from barrier (adepts) to tech armor (sentinels) could have a different maximum potential damage reduction total if you are so inclined to max out all of the available defensive evolutions (e.g. top branch), for example;

 

Fortification (Soldier) - up to 40% DR

Tactical Matrix (Infiltrator) - up to 30%

Defensive Matrix (Engineer) - up to 30%

Tech Armor (Sentinel) - up to 50%

Barrier (Adept) - up to 30%

Fortified Barrier (Vanguard) - up to 30%