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Tyrdda's axe, Felassan's clan, and a certain (possible) spy


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#1
Arvaarad

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So, I've had this theory for a while, but I've only recently realized some additional evidence for it. Let's begin with the facts.

Tyrdda's axe, as we know, is a staff. In retrospect, this makes sense. Depending on the Veil strength/existence in Tyrdda's time, it may not have made sense to even own a mundane weapon. In a situation like that, staves might have many subclassifications depending on their specific powers. Perhaps "axes" are staves with a specific kind of blade.

Now, let's take a look at Felassan's clan. It, too, is not exactly a clan. Perhaps he's referring to the agents of Fen'Harel specifically, or to ancient elves more generally, but it's clear that it's a misdirection. He looks Dalish, so he says "you wouldn't want to meet my clan" rather than point-blank denying that he comes from a clan.

Finally, let's look at Trespasser. Solas has had spies embedded in the Inquisition for a long time, and he has so many of them that he can afford to throw one of them under the bus. Even for inquisitors he loathes, he casually points out a specific elf as one of his. So he's got spies to spare. But the Inquisition wouldn't have been his only area of interest.

Solas was particularly interested in the movements of the Ben-Hassrath. Especially the movements of the Viddassala and her agents, who he would later thwart. Luckily, the Qunari get a lot of elven converts due to the elves' mistreatment, so it would be relatively easy to slip a few ancient elves into that mix.

But there's another possible route.

Suppose Solas has a spy that he wants to get close to the Ben-Hassrath. They would be an ancient elf, like Felassan, and may or may not have markings that (to any modern observer) would put them in a clan. Likewise, they would have come from a time when weapons were predominantly magical, like Tyrdda's axe.

So we might expect such an elf to claim that they're Dalish, saying things like "my keeper thought I should see the world a little" - despite the fact that Fen'Harel is not a keeper, as the Dalish understand it. And they might call their staff by a more archaic name.

Like, for example, a bow.

Now, like Felassan, an elf like that would want to be perceived as Dalish in order to lay low. If their insistence on being Dalish backfired (in a "hello hungry, I'm Dad" kind of way) they might even find themselves going by the name... Dalish. After all, who could possibly be suspicious of a Dalish elf so Dalish that their friends call them "Dalish"? Like a human named Hugh Mann, there could be nothing less suspicious than that. And of course she calls her staff a bow, because apostates are targeted by the Chantry. Ha, how funny she is for cheekily insisting that it's a bow! It's merely a coincidence that she came to be working for Hissrad, one of the agents that the Ben-Hassrath sent to watch the Inquisition.

After all, the Iron Bull - as he repeatedly boasts - has plenty of Ben-Hassrath training. Probably decades. Surely he would notice such an attempt at infiltration. How many years of spy training could an agent of Fen'Harel have, compared to his Ben-Hassrath training?

Oh, what's that, you say? Millennia, you say? Well then. That would be a little longer. :D
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#2
LadyLaLa

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Very well thought out, kudos to you. I'm actually now hoping this is true :)

#3
Arvaarad

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Very well thought out, kudos to you. I'm actually now hoping this is true :)


Thanks! Of all the elves who could be AoFs but are not confirmed, I think her case is the strongest.

I also think that evasive herbalist in the garden is an AoF, though I have no proof other than her behavior. Which normal elves might have learned as well, to protect themselves. So that's probably just elf racism showing through. ;)

I think there's a small chance Leliana is - perhaps unknowingly - an AoF, but again, I have no proof of that other than "because it would be funny." If Leliana was secretly getting nudges from Solas in her visions, (1) Dorian's joke about "flowers bloom with your song" would be foreshadowing (errr... after-shadowing?) of Leliana's blooming-flowers miracle (2) her unusually strong support of elves would have another layer to it (3) she would have been perfectly placed to give rubber-stamp approvals of all Solas' spies, and to quietly drop the investigation of Solas himself.

(in reality, she's probably spoken for by another faction, likely related to the Titans, rather than being an AoF)

#4
Dai Grepher

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Sorry, what's the topic of discussion? Is Dalish one of Solas' spies? I doubt it. The only ones who lived for a long time are Solas and the ancient elvhen such as Abelas, and they needed to sleep in order to maintain themselves that long, according to the claim about their conscious connection to the Fade. So Dalish can't be that old, and even if she was, its only because she had been in the same state of sleep as the others.

Also, "Dalish" is likely just a nickname Iron Bull gave her. Just like I'm sure "Rocky" isn't the dwarven Charger's real name. Also, her saying her staff is a bow was meant as a joke to the players. The point is that she's trying to hide the fact that she's a mage.

As for Tyrdda, or whatever her name was, I think that's unrelated to anything here. The storyline seems to indicate that this is a case of history believing one thing and then the Inquisition finding and proving the truth. It's like the prototype of Ameridan's story. People thought Trydda was a warrior, but turned out she was likely a mage based on the staff they uncovered.

#5
Arvaarad

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Sorry, what's the topic of discussion? Is Dalish one of Solas' spies? I doubt it. The only ones who lived for a long time are Solas and the ancient elvhen such as Abelas, and they needed to sleep in order to maintain themselves that long, according to the claim about their conscious connection to the Fade. So Dalish can't be that old, and even if she was, its only because she had been in the same state of sleep as the others.


Felassan is one of Solas' agents, and he strongly hints that he was around in ancient elf times. He did probably sleep, the way Solas did, and many of the modern agents of Fen'Harel probably slept as well. That doesn't erase the fact that they likely had long/unbounded lifespans before entering uthenera, and they would probably have dreamed, just as Solas did.

Also, "Dalish" is likely just a nickname Iron Bull gave her. Just like I'm sure "Rocky" isn't the dwarven Charger's real name. Also, her saying her staff is a bow was meant as a joke to the players. The point is that she's trying to hide the fact that she's a mage.

Yep, I'm aware that's what makes Dalish's claims so funny. What I'm proposing is another layer on top of that. On a surface layer, she'd be claiming it's a bow as a tongue-in-cheek way of hiding her apostate status. But, if she genuinely thinks it's called a bow, then it takes on a double meaning. The surface joke about hiding magic is her cover, the way she plays it off when she slips and calls her weapon a bow.

As for the nickname, we can imagine several scenarios where Iron Bull asks who she is, or where she came from, and her answer is "Dalish"... leading to him saying something to the effect of "hello Dalish, I'm the Iron Bull." We know she's vague about her past; during the tavern scene, Iron Bull fills in the details. We don't know how much of that is actually stuff she said about her background, or if Bull assumed it. He goes on and on about the stuff he deduces using his Ben-Hassrath training. It's not unreasonable to imagine he might, sometimes, jump to the wrong conclusion, filling in details that don't exist.

As for Tyrdda, or whatever her name was, I think that's unrelated to anything here. The storyline seems to indicate that this is a case of history believing one thing and then the Inquisition finding and proving the truth. It's like the prototype of Ameridan's story. People thought Trydda was a warrior, but turned out she was likely a mage based on the staff they uncovered.

Yep, that's a running theme (arguably, it's the main theme) through DA:I - no story is exactly the way it's told. But codices are allowed serve more than one purpose. The Tyrdda story can provide information on the world, in addition to meshing with the overarching theme. :)

#6
Dai Grepher

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Doesn't Dalish have vallaslin? And wouldn't Solas have removed it had she been working for him?

#7
Arvaarad

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Doesn't Dalish have vallaslin? And wouldn't Solas have removed it had she been working for him?

 

Felassan has vallaslin, and he definitely worked for Solas.

 

If you haven't read Masked Empire, he's such a big fan of Fen'Harel that he practically has trashy boy-band style posters of Solas plastered all over his bedroom. If you ask him for a story of the ancient elves, like 90% of the time it's a story of Fen'Harel being heroic. He even tells a story of Fen'Harel shooting a "slow arrow" to kill a terrible beast... slow arrow being the Common for the elven word felassan. At the end of the book, he's killed by a mystery figure in the Fade, after failing his mission to learn the Eluvian passphrase from Briala.

 

In Trespasser, both Solas and Cole confirm (to no one's surprise) that, yeah, Fen'Harel's #1 fanboy was an agent of Fen'Harel.

 

"The slow arrow breaks in the sad wolf's jaws," and "You remember Briala from Halamshiral? For a time, she controlled part of the labyrinth. One of my agents was supposed to take it from her, but he did not succeed."

 

 

(I'd normally mark this as Masked Empire spoilers, but I think I already hit the spoilery parts in the original post)



#8
Jedi Master of Orion

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Actually his stories seem to paint Fen'Harel as a monster. It's just the lesson he seems to take from the is that all the evil things he does is awesome. But they are clearly myths about the version of Fen'Harel that the Dalish imagine, not the actual one.

 

Also he has Vallaslin because he's a spy.



#9
Arvaarad

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Also he has Vallaslin because he's a spy.

 

Come to think of it, Solas is in kind of an awkward position. I imagine that many of his agents are mages, and their usefulness would be seriously hampered if they got thrown into Circles. Passing as Dalish would be one of the few options that would allow them to cast spells more-or-less openly. Which means that most of them probably have to wear vallaslin.

 

On the other hand, maybe that's why Solas started moving around the Mage/Templar War. Easier to sneak in some unmarked "city elf" mages when the Circles are in disarray and no one really knows what's going on. There would have been many agents like Felassan, who had to be in place in advance (and the Trespasser epilogue shows even more agents with vallaslin), but maybe the bulk of his agents are mobilizing now.



#10
Fredward

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WoT2 makes Sketch sound sketchy (huehuehue) too, though I dunno if they're implying a connection to Solas (more likely) or to the Executors. Or maybe I just totally misread that bit and he's fine.


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#11
Arvaarad

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WoT2 makes Sketch sound sketchy (huehuehue) too, though I dunno if they're implying a connection to Solas (more likely) or to the Executors. Or maybe I just totally misread that bit and he's fine.

 

I've heard this before, but this is the first time I actually went and looked up Sketch's page in my WoT2 book.

 

I think you're right. Leliana references an old empire, and the idea of being "once owned". To me, that sounds like a pretty strong hint toward Sketch being an AoF.



#12
Waving_Dolphin

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Just last week I was wondering if Dalish was a spy for Solas. See what the Dread Wolf does to us? He makes us question every single elf's loyalties.

#13
LobselVith8

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Just last week I was wondering if Dalish was a spy for Solas. See what the Dread Wolf does to us? He makes us question every single elf's loyalties.


It would be a smart move for Solas to have a spy keeping an eye on a Qunari operative working in the Andrastian kingdoms.

#14
Arvaarad

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See what the Dread Wolf does to us? He makes us question every single elf's loyalties.

 

Depending on how ruthless he's willing to be, that's actually a valid strategy. Sow confusion and suspicion, and the already-present distrust of elves will take care of the rest. The Qunari would face huge losses in manpower if they expelled elven viddathari. The Inquisition, if not disbanded, could also lose many of their non-AoF elves due to heightened paranoia (if not at the top, the rank and file soldiers could make life unpleasant for the elves among them). If the Orlesians scapegoat their elves, they could have more Halamshiral-esque revolts on their hands. Straight away, this weakens the biggest armies that could oppose him.

 

I don't know how willing he is to accept help from modern elves, but that kind of wedge-driving could also swell his own forces. An elf who sees no escape from the persecution might not care if their world ends. If anything, it's revenge for their mistreatment.



#15
Jedi Master of Orion

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I don't know if it would be "huge losses" of manpower. Elves in bad circumstances can often flock to the Qun, but in general elves aren't exactly super numerous. 



#16
Sifr

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Not that I feel entirely comfortable accusing elven characters of being spies (it seems a little bigoted), but Elan Ve'mal struck me as a tad off in post-Trespasser playthroughs, due to how vague she became when you ask her whether she was raised as a City Elf or Dalish?

 

Her answer is that those distinctions are not useful identifiers, that she does not know the ways of the Dalish, but rather that she considers herself to be "an Elf". A curious answer to give, because - unless she's being pedantic and was born in a village - wouldn't this make her a City Elf? Unless like Solas and Felassan, the reason she cannot give us a clear answer is because she predates both groups?

 

Futhermore, she mentions that her work as an apothecary has lead her to be employed by numerous heads of state. A nice cover that's both well-connected, but still sufficiently low-key to be overlooked, were she indeed engaged in espionage?

 

Of course, neither is concrete evidence against Elan Ve'mal being an agent of Fen'Harel. We could easily throw the same arguments against Dagna as a dwarven spy with just as much validity, as she too has worked for numerous heads of state and probably would have a hard time answering whether or not she considers herself a Surface or Orzammar Dwarf?


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#17
Arvaarad

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Not that I feel entirely comfortable accusing elven characters of being spies (it seems a little bigoted)

 

The reverse is also true. Most elves are not agents of Fen'Harel... and some agents of Fen'Harel may not look like elves.

 

Ancient elves clearly knew shapeshifting magic. For all we know, Snowball could be one of his.  ;)

 

More seriously, some of his agents are probably spirits. Some fraction of those might be able to act as spies. In that case, the possibilities are wide open. They could look like elves. They could have human forms like Cole. They could change appearance at will, like Imshael. They could look like traditional hooded shades. They might also be able to manifest as animals.

 

It's assumed that most spirits are not complex enough to pass as people. But, since we now know shades can look more-or-less human, this could be a case of selection bias. If there are other spirits like Cole, we wouldn't know. Who's really going to notice if there are more people in Darktown this year? Especially if the Champion of Kirkwall keeps killing hordes of- wait a second. This might actually be a thing.

 

Thin Veil? Check. Strangely small population of children, as if some of the adults never went through childhood? Check. Seemingly endless supply of people, despite high mortality rate and lack of children? Check. "Surplus" people are unusually violent, as if they don't quite understand how to function in this world? Check.

 

So, I started this reply with tinfoil about some AoFs not looking like elves... and ended up with crazier tinfoil about Kirkwall's population being half-shade. Make of that what you will.  :D



#18
Fredward

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Not that I feel entirely comfortable accusing elven characters of being spies (it seems a little bigoted)

 

I think this is gonna be a major thing if Solas ever steps completely out from his backstage maneuvering, EVERYONE is gonna be suspicious of elves and they'll feel justified by pointing at all the elves who willingly joined Solas. If we look at our own history we know a lot of awful **** has been done for weaker reasons.

 

Feels especially shitty if you picked an elven Inquisitor.


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