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[capn233]

This topic again? How many times must this be argued at this point.....

 

n+1 times

[nfi42]

This topic again? How many times must this be argued at this point.....

 

 

Until they get it right?

 

I actually don't want them to cut the content you liked in DAI,  but I do want them to add what this thread is about. 

[KaiserShep]

Having more important things to do yet doing the trivial stuff anyway is pretty much part and parcel of these sorts of games. My Warden is trying to push back the horde of darkness, yet here she is, smuggling lyrium to some jerk in the tower for some shifty dwarf in the slums of Orzammar. Then I had Shepard traverse the galaxy to chase down petty thugs for some shady crone when a rogue Spectre is commanding a geth army, presumably to kill everyone. 

[fhs33721]

Having more important things to do yet doing the trivial stuff anyway is pretty much part and parcel of these sorts of games. My Warden is trying to push back the horde of darkness, yet here she is, smuggling lyrium to some jerk in the tower for some shifty dwarf in the slums of Orzammar. Then I had Shepard traverse the galaxy to chase down petty thugs for some shady crone when a rogue Spectre is commanding a geth army, presumably to kill everyone. 

"I'd rather risk the doom of the entire galaxy than let petty thugs sit around in their base on a desolate rock of a planet. Wait.... what?"

- Commander Shepard, 2183 CE -

[Medhia_Nox]

Inquisition's very design undermined its quest logs. 

 

The Inquisitor was a leader... leaders don't hunt halla unless they need the Dalish's respect (and even then - not by the time you're a castle/army owning leader)... even worse - in Inquisition you don't need the Dalish's respect.

 

The very fact that SO much of Inquisition is not relevant even though almost all of it ties into the main quest... is what undermines the feel. 

 

Every regions ties into the story somehow... but all of it is able to be skipped so people couldn't care less about any of it.  

 

It was as much about the psychology of the player as it was the story.

 

------

 

One thing I think would have improved Inquisition would have been to turn ALL side quests into Wartable missions and let you play them only if you wanted to get unique reward possibilities from those quests.  

 

Another would have been to force a steady progression through all the territories in DA:I.  Not on a completionist level... but on a level of progression.  That game works this way... but you don't have to do it.  

 

I'm still not sure why they didn't force you to at least deal with some of the stuff going on in Emprise Du Lion before heading to the Winter Palace... it's the only thing that could possibly make you care about the civil war in Orlais.

[Sartoz]

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A recent mac Walters interview with Gamesradar.

 

 

"Even that approach of saying this is going to be about exploration, it’s going to be more open world, more free form, [with] more choice - those are all things that have definitely factored into the way that we’ve developed our core gameplay like our third person shooting," confirms Walters. "So far I can honestly say the combat is far more fluid, far more organic than it’s ever been before."

 

Link: http://www.gamesrada...-series-combat/

 

Still tell me nothing. What more organic combat even mean?

[Wulfram]

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A recent mac Walters interview with Gamesradar.
 
 
"Even that approach of saying this is going to be about exploration, it’s going to be more open world, more free form, [with] more choice - those are all things that have definitely factored into the way that we’ve developed our core gameplay like our third person shooting," confirms Walters. "So far I can honestly say the combat is far more fluid, far more organic than it’s ever been before."
 
Link: http://www.gamesrada...-series-combat/
 
Still tell me nothing. What more organic combat even mean?

Maybe we're going to be fighting fewer robots?

Or, for a more serious answer, if its open world we're presumably not always going to be fighting enemies in corridors full of conveniently placed chest high walls to hide behind. So they'll have to design the combat to work in that more open format.

[Sartoz]

Maybe we're going to be fighting fewer robots?

Or, for a more serious answer, if its open world we're presumably not always going to be fighting enemies in corridors full of conveniently placed chest high walls to hide behind. So they'll have to design the combat to work in that more open format.

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Hm... Better AI computer controlled enemies? Open area combat sounds like a slug fest.

[DEUGH Man]

I just want planets to explore and a ship that I could do barrel rolls in while I explore.

[SKAR]

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A recent mac Walters interview with Gamesradar.


"Even that approach of saying this is going to be about exploration, it’s going to be more open world, more free form, [with] more choice - those are all things that have definitely factored into the way that we’ve developed our core gameplay like our third person shooting," confirms Walters. "So far I can honestly say the combat is far more fluid, far more organic than it’s ever been before."

Link: http://www.gamesrada...-series-combat/

Still tell me nothing. What more organic combat even mean?

it means more comfortable and better.

[Kabraxal]

Until they get it right?
 
I actually don't want them to cut the content you liked in DAI,  but I do want them to add what this thread is about.

Except there was a lot of good quests... Much of it was either companion content or tied to Skyhold, but it was there. And given the intensive nature of companion content and the variety of areas for exploration, something would be cut to give even more content like that.

The issue I have is that there are meaningful side quests but it is routinely ignored so people can make claims that the game is 90 percent filler "fetch". That is simply wrong. And this isn't even touching the routine and rather poor comparitive arguments to another game that has as much repetitive filler as Inquisition and had very little in depth companion content. But this discussion never goes anywhere on this forum and the counterpoints that have been presented for DA are routinely dismissed. That is why this topic is so damn annoying.

[KaiserShep]

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A recent mac Walters interview with Gamesradar.
 
 
"Even that approach of saying this is going to be about exploration, it’s going to be more open world, more free form, [with] more choice - those are all things that have definitely factored into the way that we’ve developed our core gameplay like our third person shooting," confirms Walters. "So far I can honestly say the combat is far more fluid, far more organic than it’s ever been before."
 
Link: http://www.gamesrada...-series-combat/
 
Still tell me nothing. What more organic combat even mean?

I assume that "more organic" means the exact opposite of ME2's ridiculously obvious battle arenas.

[In Exile]

I assume that "more organic" means the exact opposite of ME2's ridiculously obvious battle arenas.

I wouldn't read too much into meaningless buzz words.

[nfi42]

Except there was a lot of good quests... Much of it was either companion content or tied to Skyhold, but it was there. And given the intensive nature of companion content and the variety of areas for exploration, something would be cut to give even more content like that.

The issue I have is that there are meaningful side quests but it is routinely ignored so people can make claims that the game is 90 percent filler "fetch". That is simply wrong. And this isn't even touching the routine and rather poor comparitive arguments to another game that has as much repetitive filler as Inquisition and had very little in depth companion content. But this discussion never goes anywhere on this forum and the counterpoints that have been presented for DA are routinely dismissed. That is why this topic is so damn annoying.

 

It's subjective.  Your "lots of good quests"  relates to filler for me and others. 

 

That certain other game did have alot of filler. It also had lots of other quests whitch where of higher quality.  All imo of course.

[Arcian]

Strangely, the big empty spaces in ME1 didn't bother me as much as DAIs environments. Maybe because the Mako made it easier to get around, making tasks quicker to complete. Plus ME1s open areas were smaller and had more places to visit.

DA:I's areas were certainly more detailed, but the remoteness and alienness of ME1's uncharted worlds made the galaxy feel a lot larger.

Also, exoplanetary exploration is a personal fetish of mine, so ME1's semi-open worlds struck right at home.

[In Exile]

DA:I's areas were certainly more detailed, but the remoteness and alienness of ME1's uncharted worlds made the galaxy feel a lot larger.

Also, exoplanetary exploration is a personal fetish of mine, so ME1's semi-open worlds struck right at home.

I thought it made the galaxy seem tiny. Every world was just a nearly identical barren husk of rock with an actually identical prefab structure. That's the worst part of exploration - seeing absolutely nothing new or visually interesting while roaming around vast aggravating wasteland.

[MC117]

I agree, The witcher 3 did an amazing job with side quests, hopefully ME:A has great side quests.

[archav3n]

Hello,

 

One of my gripes with Inquisition(I Use inquisition as an example because it is an open world bioware game) is the design of side quests. I am at a point where I am the leader of the inquisition but I still have to chase down a Halla like I do not have more important things to accomplish. My request with Mass Effect is that side quests should be meaningful and correspond to the current plotline.

 

+1000 yes this. I would prefer quests like witcher or skyrim and not collectibles. I would also love more options on the camera during conversations though. 

[Seraphim24]

All I know is "Skyhold" is was one stupid name for a hub... or... anything.

[Kabraxal]

It's subjective.  Your "lots of good quests"  relates to filler for me and others. 
 
That certain other game did have alot of filler. It also had lots of other quests whitch where of higher quality.  All imo of course.

I think the "quality" content might be equal to companion content. Which means the quality optional content is equal. I think most people try to use the Witcher contracts as "quality" but they are repetitive filler that is "go here, get info, follow senses, kill". In fact, a lot of quests are like that. People just give those quests a pass while skewering Inquisition. in the end, I think it boils down to using cutscene preference. TW3 is filled with them while DA: I relies on environmental story telling for the smaller quests.

Also, the Baron quest isn't really a side quest. It is too tied into advancing the main plot. I think that one good quest does give TW3 a certain image that isn't necessarily true.

[fizzypop]

They won't. It will be like DAI and you will want to stab yourself in the eye. I would rather see quests that actually have consequences and are part of the main storyline. Side quests are always boring because they can only be completed one way and usually aren't worth whatever rewards you get. I'm not going to spend hours exploring boring, empty terrain for measly rewards.

[nfi42]

I think the "quality" content might be equal to companion content. Which means the quality optional content is equal. I think most people try to use the Witcher contracts as "quality" but they are repetitive filler that is "go here, get info, follow senses, kill". In fact, a lot of quests are like that. People just give those quests a pass while skewering Inquisition. in the end, I think it boils down to using cutscene preference. TW3 is filled with them while DA: I relies on environmental story telling for the smaller quests.

Also, the Baron quest isn't really a side quest. It is too tied into advancing the main plot. I think that one good quest does give TW3 a certain image that isn't necessarily true.

 

I consider Witcher contracts as filler.  Apart from it's his job,  he does the same thing everytime.  It's on a par with the searching for shards.  Shards gave stat points,  Witcher contract give mutagens to make decoctions.  So they are both filler,  but worth doing.  Actually the contracts do get a lot criticism for overuse of witcher senses.

 

TW3 even has environmental story telling,  not as much as DAI,  but it's there.

 

The big difference is that TW3 has way more "Quality" content akin to DAI's companion quests. This is what I want more of when I want more meaningful quests,  and you don't have to rip any of the DAI content to achieve that.

[straykat]

I don't think "quests" and open worlds do well together in the first place. Open worlds need immersive events and AI, rather than the theme parky nature of quest placement (I mean, at least when it comes to side questing... it still works for my main narratives).

 

And Bioware knows nothing about this. Only people who do it well are Rockstar/Bethesda.

 

edit: Bleh.. I mean Emergent. Not Immersive. But that works too, I guess.

[Kabraxal]

I consider Witcher contracts as filler.  Apart from it's his job,  he does the same thing everytime.  It's on a par with the searching for shards.  Shards gave stat points,  Witcher contract give mutagens to make decoctions.  So they are both filler,  but worth doing.  Actually the contracts do get a lot criticism for overuse of witcher senses.
 
TW3 even has environmental story telling,  not as much as DAI,  but it's there.
 
The big difference is that TW3 has way more "Quality" content akin to DAI's companion quests. This is what I want more of when I want more meaningful quests,  and you don't have to rip any of the DAI content to achieve that.

I don't see this "way more" you do. Most of the optional content are points of interest and contracts. The quests not like that certainly do not vastly out number the companion quests or the Skyhold judgements. No one has even begun to prove that claim of way more. I believe it simply comes from "I like this game more" than any objective measurement.

And I am mot arguing that I wouldn't like more companion content like quests in a Bioware game. It is just this continued claim that Inquisition was mostly filler and TW3 was not needs to end. It is a merritless claim simply born from a sense of goodwill fans have for TW3 or its presentation. I mean, I have seen people try to claim TW3 had more meaningful sidequests than Fallout and that clearly has no basis.

[straykat]

I don't see this "way more" you do. Most of the optional content are points of interest and contracts. The quests not like that certainly do not vastly out number the companion quests or the Skyhold judgements. No one has even begun to prove that claim of way more. I believe it simply comes from "I like this game more" than any objective measurement.

And I am mot arguing that I wouldn't like more companion content like quests in a Bioware game. It is just this continued claim that Inquisition was mostly filler and TW3 was not needs to end. It is a merritless claim simply born from a sense of goodwill fans have for TW3 or its presentation. I mean, I have seen people try to claim TW3 had more meaningful sidequests than Fallout and that clearly has no basis.

 

People complained about this even before TW3 was released. DAI has theme parky design written all over it. There's really only two ways to make open worlds. This way or the emergent way I mentioned above. And only a few studios know how to do the latter. I don't expect Bioware to learn overnight. I mean, Bethesda has been doing it for over 20 years. Rockstar almost as long.

 

What sucks is every studio wants to make open world games these days, but they don't have that experience. Bioware included. I'd rather they just stick with what they're good at.... because it's something Bethesda sucks at themselves.