28 replies to this topic

[Darqion]

I am normally quite capable of playing games on at or around the hardest difficulty level.. But with D&D games i have never been able to be even half decent. I eventually beat Baldurs gate 1 and 2 on normal, but that was a struggle like none other (still one of my favorite games ever though)

 

Now im trying to get through nwn2 since i never actually beat it. i started on hardcore rules and i made it to neverwinter eventually, most fights were quite manageable. I worked my way through the tomb of the betrayer but thats where the first issues started. Groups of ghasts(i believe) would spawn and they would completely stunlock my frontline, and they wouldnt get out of stun until they eventually died. Through trial/error, some positioning and some extra buffs i managed to work my way through here, but it was getting clear it was getting rough already

 

Now i just got to Leldon's hideout, and my party is getting completely destroyed. While the ghasts would atleast take a few rounds to kill someone, my frontline is getting sneak attacked, from the front(somehow) and dropped in 1 or 2 rounds. This includes my tanky khelgar. Now i say tanky, but my ac is only 25, i dont know if thats any good, but thats with the best armor i could find/afford. hes wielding a +2 acid sword i stole of some bloke and a tower shield. My pc is quite ****, i`ll admit, since im using a build thats probably not for a newbie. i read up on a kaze no kama, a dual kama wielding monk/fighter.. Still, i shifted my difficulty to normal to see if i could atleast survive a little bit with my tank up front but hes still getting melted. he is level 7 currently, and the tomb of betrayed is the only quest i have really done so far. Am i in here simply too early? 

 

I also hate neeska. as a person, but also the fact that i have to bring a rogue in a 4 man party.. sure you could dance around traps and bash some locks (and lose loot) but thats not fun either, and shes weak. when she was in melee she would only die even with the best gear i could find and some defensive feat. I have since respecced her a couple times and shes still ****, but i was figuring if i had 2 decent frontliners, i could just sit her in the back plinking away with bow and arrow.

 

So my real question is, why am i having so much issues in this place? I watched some videos of this fight on youtube, and most people just seemed to cut right through them. some were even taking 0 damage, on neeska of all people.. Why am i pretty decent at most games, but do D&D games just own my face

 

And how can i really learn to become good at D&D games? I've tried reading up on builds and mechanics but its quite a lot to swallow, and i dont really want to follow a guide to the letter as that would take the enjoyment out of it completely. Some people say they played the game for their first time and that it was too easy.. on the highest difficulty. im really at a loss here

[Arkalezth]

I haven't played the OC in ages, so I don't remember much about specific fights. That's Neeshka's personal quest, right?

I don't know who your 4th party member is, but it sounds like you could use some more magic. Simple as it is, buffing the party and then charging head-on tends to be a rather fool-proof strategy, but you need a proper party for it. Any other companions available at this point besides Elanee?

Kaze no kama builds suck unless you have some overpowered weapons, so there's that. As for Neeshka, you can always have another character take a rogue level and the feat Able Learner. Or just run over traps, which shouldn't be a problem for a monk.

[Darqion]

Yea my 4th is Elanee, and i have no other options yet. I actually wanted to go with me and khelgar frontlining and have 2 magic users in the back for support. Like i said, i know my build will be **** for quite some time, i was just hoping/thinking i could do atleast fairly well until i got around to crafting some good kama's.

 

The biggest issue is khelgar dying in mere seconds, on normal, against just 4? thugs (yes this is neeska questline). I know buffs can be really strong, but i dont see how they would turn this around completely, since the number of skills i currently have is very limited. I might reroll into a fighter afteral since, while the kaze sounds like awesome fun, if he only comes to his own at lvl 15+ or something, i guess its an awful pick for my first playthrough... Or i was thinking going with khelgar with 3 magic in his back though i could see that blowing up in my face too OR me resting every 15 seconds.

 

Im currently watching someone play through the game to see what he does different, see if i make any glaring mistakes.

 

Also, would any partymember really be able to unlock/spot all the stuff if i take a rogue lvl (guess i need to enable that mod )  and that able learner feat?

[Arkalezth]

A single rogue level is enough to detect any trap (provided that your Search skill is high enough). You'll need a mod if you want to multiclass companions, yes.

I'm not sure if that's how you're playing, but just in case, the concept of an invincible "tank" with crappy offence that works in other games doesn't do that well in NWN2, so don't rely solely on him to defend against groups of enemies. Still, if you have Elanee buff Khelgar or whoever with Barkskin and Stoneskin, he should be pretty tough, and Flame Weapon will increase your damage output significantly (remember that you can cast it on both your kamas). I'd normally suggest to cast Call Lightning with her as well... but if you're fighting rogues in that quest, they'll likely evade that spell easily.

If that isn't enough, try using some wands or scrolls. And healing kits. Or simply park the quest until you've gained a level or two, if possible.

[Darqion]

Alright, thanks for the advice. I`ll download that mod and wait till i get another member, probably sand... see if i can just respec him a little so he can perform the rogue duty. edit: on second thought, maybe not sand. i think i wanted to turn him into a crafting, so he wont have as much points left. oh well, i`ll figure something out

 

My biggest issue with D&D games has always been the resting mechanic (or rather the way spellcasting works i suppose). resting too often feels cheap, but if i am to rely on spells to do combat,  that might be what i have to do. I`ll give these fights a few more shots, maybe try some of khelgars vision quest if i cant do it and if im still struggling i`ll finish watching some playthroughs of "pros"  and/or completely rerol into a more newbie friendly class. thanks

[Thorsson64]

Kaze builds will do fine in MotB, but for the OC? I don't think so. For the Rogues you need someone with high Spot or Listen (buff them too, e.g. Heroism and Owl's Wisdom), preferably an Elf, leading the party... (hint, hint)

[Arkalezth]

Unsolicited advice, but if you do restart and still want a melee combatant with lots of attacks but less reliance on overpowered weapons, as well as the ability to use armour and shields, consider a frenzied berserker. It is, IMO, the best class to quickly dispatch groups of enemies, and the OC has hordes of them.

Regarding Spot and Listen: I wouldn't bother with those skills, except maaaybe on a companion with a lot of points to spare and nowhere to put them. Stealthy enemies are extremely rare; better to spend the points on skills you're gonna use more often.

[Axe_Edge]

"Pause" (space bar) is your friend.
Try turning off the parties AI and control each party member each round.
Use doorways against the rogues. Position your party members on one side of a doorway to only allow one enemy near their door side at a time. Use your rogue (or fastest PC) to lure enemies (hopefully not all) to the door (i use the rogue). This usually keeps the thieves from being able to gang up on my PCs and sneak attack.
Elanee is usually one of my most useful NPCs for taking on hordes.
I have always played Hard Core.
Watch out when casting AoE spells.
If i see the enemy has a major caster, i go right at them to take them out fast.
Sand is almost always my crafter. I don't dump crafting skills on anyone else.
Let Kelghar be who he is and let him swing war axes (or a certain other weapon gained). He isn't impressive as a monk, anyway. Only have him become a monk during a later play through to say you've done it.

[TBastian]

It's all about the meta.

 

For example, BG1 was all about ranged attacks, web spells and AoE nukes. BG2 is a high magic world, so it was all about spells spells spells (doesn't matter where it's from) and gearing your teammates ASAP. NWN2's meta is tricky to figure out because the game doesn't pull you in as much as the BG series (except for MotB, which is a masterpiece in storytelling). Bottomline though is that in NWN2 arcane casters (wizards, sorcerers) are EXTREMELY powerful. In some ways this extends to clerics and you can even argue that clerics can be just as, if not more, powerful because of domains, but that's not relevant in the OC.

BTW I wouldn't play in hardcore rules (it's really not much different from normal, except for friendly fire) unless it's your nth run and you just want to mix things up a bit, and even then you might just want to skip hardcore and go for a higher difficulty. The OC simply wasn't balanced around hardcore and it shows if you play around with some of the more (relatively) recent additions (a Spirit Shaman can kill friendly summoned units with its own innate abilities, for example).

 

Anyway, quality of life general tips:

 

-Neeshka is a late bloomer. That comes from her being a Tiefling (+1 ECL, she gains levels slower than everyone else) and a rogue. She becomes much more powerful later, especially if you let her dual wield and give her customized weapons. Until then, just have her use an enchanted bow if you can't be bothered to micro her.

 

-In NWN2 AC matters. It's like you're perpetually stuck in BG1 because the powerful spells you get in BG2 never really come into play. This means that your frontline needs to know its way around stacking AC. This should help.

 

-Know your debuffs. Unlike the BG series, where your knowing your debuffs mostly means knowing which enemies have immunities, in NWN2 knowing your debuffs means knowing what type of saves your enemies are weak against. For example, Qara can shut down those rogue-type enemies you encounter early on in the OC all by herself with the spell Cloud of Bewilderment (rogues have weak fortitude saves). Elanee's Entangle is a poor substitute for that against rogues, though multiple castings can work if you badly need the extra crowd control (like in your situation). Of course, custom-made PCs with really high DC have a bit more freedom when it comes to using debuffs.

Basically, know your way around spells with secondary effects (entangle, daze, stun, paralyze, prone, level drain, grapple, etc). Many of the game's most powerful spells have these effects. Later on you should also start figuring out how to counter such spells, especially if you decide to play in hardcore mode.

 

-In the OC, crafting matters. It's true that crafting isn't necessary, but without crafting NWN2 is even more broken class progression-wise than the BG games ever were, in the sense that several classes don't really get "good" until too late into the game/never and you will feel robbed of any enjoyment you may have of playing a character that has actually grown in power over the course of his/her adventures. While the devs went overboard with MotB crafting (crafting there can actually break the game and make it less fun), crafting in the OC allows you to experience that BG-esque feeling of reaching a point where you have a formidable PC as early as around level 12 or so.

In your case, I'd just concern myself with useful low level enchants (like Holy Weapon). I'd recommend using that on Neeshka's bow, if she had that I doubt you'd be complaining about her combat effectiveness. Just don't forget to give Elanee Craft Magical Arms and Armor and/or Craft Wondrous Items. The only nice feat you'd want to get her for the OC is Dinosaur Companion anyway.

 

-Go for simplicity. In the NWN2 OC, simple is good. Simple means there's room for improvement. Simple means you also get to study other classes (all NWN2 archetype classes are represented in the OC) and see what makes them tick, because you will need to use them all at some point especially if you're playing the influence game.

The thing about many custom builds you'll see around wherever is that they are designed for persistent worlds, where you only control 1 character (your PC) at a time. Party play is a whole different ballgame, and something like playing a build that needs a ton of buffs after resting can get REALLY old if you're playing with 3+ other characters who also need to go through the same regimen each time.

Kaze no Kama is an end-game build. The author (implicitly) assumes that you already know your way around getting to end-game. Like I said, just go for simple. You can add whatever flourishes you want on your build when you're more experienced. Multiclassing is encouraged in NWN2.

 

-Get Blind Fight on all your fighters. Due to the wonky way stealth/concealment/invisibility was implemented in NWN2, Blind Fight is more or less a requirement for any character likes to get hit/attack a lot in the OC/expansion.

[kamal_]

BG 1/2 could generally be cheesed by strategic leaving/entering areas since creatures normally wouldn't follow you, and also because the ai didn't generally react unless it could see the player, so you could remain out of sight and use abilities whose areas go into the fog of war (cough, cloudkill, cough) or draw enemies into kill zones (placed trap cheese).

 

I think DnD is harder in general than many rpgs because it's more tactical than many, pretty much everything can be countered, damage is more burst-y at lower levels, and even otherwise generally weak enemies can potentially have deadly abilities (such as the stunlocking from multiple ghasts).

[TBastian]

There's cheese in every game, even NWN2.

I'm assuming the author is interested in a "legit" experience. It's not like the cheesy stuff is hard to figure out, anyway. You bump into that kind of stuff sooner or later. Avoid/abuse as desired.

 

As for the ghasts thing, I've always used scouting liberally in any D&D game I've played. It helps a lot.

[Axe_Edge]

Just a tip. You can drag commands from their menu to the quickbar (attack, follow, stay)

[Darqion]

Wow thank you all for your responses. Lots of good advice and information. I am currently in the process of making a different character to see how different it is. following a guide that pretty much goes with fighter and frenzied berserker, it also mentions RDD and a bard lvl and the build mentioned it was for the OC.. seeing as its mostly fighter-ish classes, i am hoping its a bit more straightforward.

 

I will get into reading more about the different saves, and what skills go well again said saverolls, though i would still have to experiment to figure out when i would actually use the spells, since they are only a couple a day, especially at the start. Im keeping it at hardcore for now, but i think i might just switch it to normal if i do run into a wall again.

 

And indeed, i am looking or legit ways of making the game easier I will admit i did some cheese in baldurs gate, but at the time (many years ago) i simply had no idea how to beat these seemingly overpowered guys (beholders and mindflayers were the main issue)

 

Question about spending gold: it seems relatively hard to get decent gold in act 1 so far.. And ive been looking at buying maybe a full plate or halfplate +1 but 1500 gold is a decent chunk currently. Is it worth just spending stuff right now, or should i be able to hold my own so i can save up for a potential item commng up that would cost several thousands?

[Thorsson64]

My favourite medium level build for first time SP play throughs is Bard8/RDD4/F2-8 (works for 14-20). Take Battle Caster and use Medium Armor; a Shield when you need extra AC (unequip for buffing). However you get a Bard in the OC, so maybe F8/Bd1/RDD4/FB5 is what to aim for (can use Heavy Armor as you won't be casting spells).

[TBastian]

It's like that early on but around the later part of Act 1 you'll find yourself being bombarded with expensive stuff you can sell.

Considering that the biggest money sink in the game requires a ton of investment (700k gold or so) though it's usually best to craft/enchant your own early game stuff, so you can just sell them later. It's very easy to enchant +1 to +3 weapons/armors. Recipes here. Don't go overboard with crafting early on, the game gives you plenty of enchanted gear.

Feel free to buy a few unique items you find interesting (like launchers that fire unlimited ammo).

Once you get over that 700k hurdle you can spend your gold pretty much however you want.

 

Final piece of advice, make sure you buy everything you need from the merchants you encounter in Act 1-2. Most of them will disappear in Act 3.

[Arkalezth]

playing a build that needs a ton of buffs after resting can get REALLY old if you're playing with 3+ other characters who also need to go through the same regimen each time.

http://www.nexusmods...ter2/mods/197/?

[BoardGuest808888l]

When playing for 1st time, it is usually not advisable to jump with hard difficulty. Even if you already familiar with ADnD, you might at least play in lower difficulty first, if only to know what resources and assets available to you and what kind of challenge you'll find. There are some things that worked differently from game to game, even if they all claim to be 'based' on ADnD.

One way to tackle difficult fight is to pre-buff your characters beforehand. It can make difference. For example, at Act 1, a buffed Khelgar can have at least 36 AC. Not to mention things like Stoneskin, Mirror Image and other defenses. It will be very difficult to dent someone with such defenses as in Act 1, your enemy isn't that strong.

Aside from consumables (scrolls, potions), there are not many notable things you can buy at Act 1. You better save your money for better goods later.

[Tchos]

Being familiar with AD&D (Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale 1, for example) can be as much of a hindrance as a help, since D&D 3.5 (there is no A in D&D past 2nd edition) has many differences, even aside from the modifications the computer games made to the rules.  It was actually ToEE that was the most effective primer for the 3.5 ruleset for me before I read the rule books and played it with pen & paper.

 

As Axe Edge says, make liberal use of pause.  The rules were designed for turn-based play, and since these computer versions run in realtime with pause instead, there is ample opportunity for you to miss turns while the enemies keep taking theirs if you're not pausing. 

[Luminus]

-Pause is your friend. Always pause and position your allies.

-Buffs, buffs, buffs. Unlike BG, many buffs can be cast on allies too. Such as Mage Armor, Stoneskin, Flame Weapon, Barkskin etc.

-With Neeska you want to position her behind squishy enemies. If she gets into trouble, move her to someone else or use a bow.

-Elanee has an animal companion (which sucks) but with Storm of Zehir, you can give her the Dinosaur Companion which steamrolls over anything, especially if buffed.
Elanee (and Druids in general) can also spontaneously summon creatures  by clicking on the Spontaneous Conversion button and using an uneeded spell to turn it into a summon.

-Khelgar is a tank. Buff him with Barkskin and Mage Armor (if you have Sand/Qara) in the beginning and Flame Weapon, which stacks with flaming weapons.

-Don't forget to get the Extend Spell feat on your buffers. Buffs that last twice as much are great.

-Take out archers/mages first. Let the warriors chase you while you buy time.

-Kaze no Kama sucks in the OC. I would go with a pure Cleric, not a Fighter. You get a Cleric NPC quite late in the OC, so being able to buff and heal yourself and your allies is great and you can do a bit of everything. *Hint* Clerics are very useful in the OC and MotB

[Tchos]

I would also personally recommend against multiclassing anyone.  While it may eventually lead to powerful characters at high levels, it can also lead to struggling in the early-to-mid levels, as you're not getting the milestone abilities for your main class when you are expected to.  Wizards, especially, are most powerful by gaining access to more and better spells.

[Arkalezth]

While I more or less agree, though it depends on the class, some prestige classes might give you extra abilities without diluting your original class' ones. For instance, casting PRCs with full spellcasting progression, the aforementioned frenzied berserker, shadowdancer...

I'm not saying pure classes don't work, but a little multiclassing here and there isn't that complicated and it doesn't always slow down your progression. Just make sure not to go balls-out multiclassing if you don't know what you're doing.

[Darqion]

Thanks, my current run is already going better, though i didnt have a lot of time to play so im only now getting to the place where i got stuck.

 

I`m wondering about multiclasses.. How much does it matter if i take either 1 or the other class first? Im currently trying a F/B/RDD/FB and the guide i followed has me taking RDD levels before i pick up FB but from what i understannd the RDD is more defensively oriented. Could i pick up 2 levels of FB first to get extreme cleave, and switch back to RDD and finish up FB later?

 

I'm already getting excited about trying more builds.. more magic. But for now i`ll try and focus on becoming a melee killing machine

[Tchos]

Yes, I give prestige classes a pass, and consider them to be specialties of an otherwise pure class as long as they continue the same kind of progression, such as a wizard leading into Red Wizard of Thay or Pale Master (and apparently not a monk leading into red dragon disciple as I had thought).  They're also a special case since they don't cause any XP penalty for taking too many non-favoured classes.

[Arkalezth]

How much does it matter if i take either 1 or the other class first?

It usually matters, mainly for playability's sake. It depends on the build.
 

Could i pick up 2 levels of FB first to get extreme cleave, and switch back to RDD and finish up FB later?

That's what I'd do (if I were playing such a build in the first place, which I probably wouldn't), or maybe even go for FB 5 right away. The long-term powergamey option is getting at least RDD 8 ASAP, in order to maximise your skill points, but the difference isn't so great and you'd be delaying other things.
 

... they continue the same kind of progression, such as a wizard leading into Red Wizard of Thay or Pale Master

Just saying in case you didn't know: PM only advances spellcasting on odd levels, so you do lose caster levels in that particular case (unless you take a single PM level). Kaedrin's pack raises it to 9/10 caster levels.

[BoardGuest808888l]

When making a character, it is better to determine your role first, then seek a class/class combo/prestige class which suits your need. If you start with a class/combo first then trying to find out what you're going to do with your character, you'll find your character not really up to your expectation.

How does it matter to dip on one/two level class should take that in consideration. Remember, while having certain ability/class feat might be cool, if you get it a level (or two) too late, it will be meaningless as you'll find your situation no longer in need of such feat.

For example; your F/B/RDD/FB build. Simply copying this build from somewhere else won't be any good for you. You should determine first, where your character would fit in, what will your character do under any situations, how will he/she do it. Then, you build him/her up from there. Let's see some alternatives you can have from this build;

1. Where ? Melee killing machine.
What ? The tankiest tank like you've ever meet.
How ? Emphasize on F then RDD.

2. Where ? Melee killing machine.
What ? Killer of creeps, a sexy, shoeless god of war.
How ? Emphasize on F then FB.

3. Where ? Melee killing machine.
What ? Dispatch those pesky wizards first.
How ? Emphasize on RDD then FB.

4. Where ? Melee killing machine.
What ? Buff first, smash later.
How ? Emphasize on B then RDD.

5. Where ? Melee killing machine.
What ? Enemy who can't fight back is the best enemy.
How ? Emphasize of B then FB.

6. Where ? Melee killing machine.
What ? I have a thousand faces, jack-of-all-trades, a master-of-every trivia.
How ? Emphasize on B.

See ? Even for your build, you got a lot of options to customize your character according to your own need.