92 réponses à ce sujet

[nfi42]

Even if they make it to Andromeda, the odds are at best 400 in 1 trillion.

[SogaBan]

... However protheans had no warning and were caught completely off guard. It honestly depends on how many races bioware decided had warnings from previous cycles. Otherwise it's probably impossible to build an ark ship during reaper purge considering it would take a considerable amount of time and resources to build an ark ship, that can't be spared while fighting reapers

 

Isn't it a kind of an oxymoron that when a blueprint for a reaper-eradicating-machination can be passed from previous cycle to the next ones - is it practical to believe that the information of the 'actual' threat (aka Reapers) still remains unknown? Maybe the message/information was not exactly a common knowledge but it's impossible to conclude that the information from the past cycles/races never propagated to the scientific/archaeological circle of the next cycle! This is the most logical thing to me and kinda makes sense.

 

Besides, with the imminent mass level extinction event practically knocking at the door - which one do you think will get priority? Building a weapon to stop the threat once and for all OR building an escape vehicle that would house nearly all sorts of life sustaining environments for different races/species of organics for an unspecified period of time (add to this the fact - the amount of eezo core required to propel the magnanimous vehicle through intergalactic travel). It's (the escape vehicle plan) probably too much cost prohibitive at the eleventh hour.

 

Which brings me to the inevitable inference - the ark we saw in the E3 trailer - is either a borrowed vehicle (some derelict vehicle of some long forgotten civilizations or as some proposed, a modified collector vessel - that is if I want to stretch things a  bit) OR this ship/vehicle/ark was an initiative started immediately after the first game (based on the fact that the STGs and the Asari high commands got a clear cut confirmation of the existence of reapers, which their ancient literature might have 'foretold').

 

In the later case, I think I won't be imagining things if I say that the 'blueprint' of this ark we are talking about - has also been derived from some ancient archive (the same way we got information about building the crucible)!!

 

Just my two cents thought! Why don't you people shoot me right in my head in order to get rid of this non-productive discussion? 

Modifié par SogaBan, 05 juillet 2016 - 08:50 .

[fchopin]

You do realize you're human right? Does that mean you're stupid? I'd think so.

Some of the races in the past have been hundreds of years more advanced than us.

The protheans could have done the trip to Andromeda much easier than us and that is just one example.

[Spectr61]

For those interested, a good discussion on race vs species.

Bottom line, race is not an accepted term used by scientists with respect to humans. And certainly not aliens.


http://www.sciforums...species.107872/


Further, some relate even using the term race applying it to humans is racist behavior.

http://english.stack...-common-mistake

[Probe Away]

Other cycles probably weren't bound by the rule of cool, and therefore their species would have sensibly aimed for a closer galaxy - as opposed to the one with the most marketable name.

[BraveVesperia]

If there were Protheans in Andromeda, that could be pretty depressing in regards to Javik. One of his final conversations with Shep can suggest he's going to go kill himself after they win. It'd be so sad if he died never knowing that his people live on elsewhere.

[Helios969]

Not if Bioware in fact intends to make Andromeda a "clean slate."  If they make the Remnant survivors from the MW, I hope it's a race we haven't met previously.  Javik gave me about as much Prothean as I could ever want and frankly had wished there had been a renegade interrupt to toss him out the airlock in protest - this is what I think about this DLC, Bioware!

[SogaBan]

Not if Bioware in fact intends to make Andromeda a "clean slate."  If they make the Remnant survivors from the MW, I hope it's a race we haven't met previously.  Javik gave me about as much Prothean as I could ever want and frankly had wished there had been a renegade interrupt to toss him out the airlock in protest - this is what I think about this DLC, Bioware!

 

Couldn't agree more. So true... so true... and I am pissed off with his unnecessary Jamaican like accent (my apologies - no disrespect intended). And he was not an embodiment of vengeance; instead he was an embodiment of trolling!!! However, his "Dark Channel" power was quite functional, though...

 

Nevertheless, I am trying to perceive this discussion from pure 'academic' angle (let's forget about the marketing perspective for now, please).

[Helios969]

^I can't argue he was useful on missions...especially when playing Biotic/Vanguard.  I just found the "throw it out the airlock" tiresome after awhile.  It works if you're ruthless, but he was largely a static character.  It would have been better if as a Paragon you could have moved him away from the whole "vengeful ancient" and helped him find some peace.  It happens at the end, but too late in the game to really matter from a RP perspective.

[SogaBan]

^I can't argue he was useful on missions...especially when playing Biotic/Vanguard.  I just found the "throw it out the airlock" tiresome after awhile.  It works if you're ruthless, but he was largely a static character.  It would have been better if as a Paragon you could have moved him away from the whole "vengeful ancient" and helped him find some peace.  It happens at the end, but too late in the game to really matter from a RP perspective.

While I agreed to "tossing-him-out-of-airlock-interrupt" option, at the same time I tried seeing the world through his eyes; considering the massacre and hardships and complete termination of his own species - he endured - I can agree with his current vengeful attitude - just my opinion though.

 

There are something which is beyond the purview of anyone - no matter how much persuasive/coercive Shepard is - that arena is completely his off-limits (even considering the fact he himself has faced death once). Failure is also an attribute for a leader - again, my POV...

[Helios969]

While I agreed to "tossing-him-out-of-airlock-interrupt" option, at the same time I tried seeing the world through his eyes; considering the massacre and hardships and complete termination of his own species - he endured - I can agree with his current vengeful attitude - just my opinion though.

 

There are something which is beyond the purview of anyone - no matter how much persuasive/coercive Shepard is - that arena is completely his off-limits (even considering the fact he himself has faced death once). Failure is also an attribute for a leader - again, my POV...

I understand...and really agree.  But if I'm made to pay 10$ for added content, I'd like more than what I got from the DLC.  Maybe if it had had more Prothean specific missions to explore their culture...aside from the very biased eyes of Javik, I could have appreciated it.

[SogaBan]

I understand...and really agree.  But if I'm made to pay 10$ for added content, I'd like more than what I got from the DLC.  Maybe if it had had more Prothean specific missions to explore their culture...aside from the very biased eyes of Javik, I could have appreciated it.

 I got that. If you are nudging towards "Return-On-Investment" - I do completely agree with you. We got 'nothing' compared to what we paid for (however, this can again be subjective - and let's not start a war on that, please).

 

Meanwhile, I would like to request everyone to focus on the main topic... 

[SKAR]

Some of the races in the past have been hundreds of years more advanced than us.
The protheans could have done the trip to Andromeda much easier than us and that is just one example.

It has nothing to do with stupidity. I'm pretty sure we won't be seeing any protheans. Unless they left for exploration too no way Jose. The reapers screwed them when they came through the citadel really and they focused on building the crucible which they failed. We didn't have that problem because of the protheans. Their contingency plan was to freeze themselves until the next cycle. Can you guess who the sole survivor was?

[Sartoz]

 

 

In the later case, I think I won't be imagining things if I say that the 'blueprint' of this ark we are talking about - has also been derived from some ancient archive (the same way we got information about building the crucible)!!

 

Just my two cents thought! Why don't you people shoot me right in my head in order to get rid of this non-productive discussion? 

                                                                                     <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>

 

There are other possibilities, than an ancient blueprint.... strictly human made. Though, an "ancient" one works as well.

 

One.

Let's talk Alliance manufacturing capacity, for a sec. I believe it's huge.  The Solar System can have many manufacturing and fabrication units orbiting various locations in the solar system, which are in addition to the Earth based ones and possibly the colonies..

 

Two.

Based on the revelation of the Reapers in ME1, the Earth Alliance government may have "commandeered" manufacturing capacity to build  ships for a potential requirement for an escape plan. These events occur in ME2. We have Javiks stasis pods available for reverse engineering. The "new" pods are small and with proper stacking can be optimized to use as little space as possible, in a ship. Payment is to be done after the threat is over or if the Alliance collapses... well, there's no one left anyway.

 

Three.

The Arkon Project is the 1st thing in ME2,  that gets activated by the Alliance. Ships are designed and built (not as big as the Citadel... no need to with crew and colonists in pods). The government asks for volunteers to colonize new "found" planets outside the Collector Area of Operations (in ME2, Earth colonies are attacked). Also, military personnel are attached to the project and Leaders selected plus all sundry items for colonization, infrastructure support and defense is loaded into the ships.

 

Four.

The Engine for intergalactic travel. A sticky point but if Bio can do it, so can I. An experimental FTL engine that showed promise from a secret "Alliance Colony Management Lab" in ME1, is installed in the ships. These are huge engines that can propel the ARKs at higher speeds than the "standard" FTL drives. The can go to "higher bands" in multi-dimensional space which (from the traveler's point of view) reduces the distances between point A and B.

 

Five.

in ME3, the ARKs leave just before the first  Reaper invasion fleets arrive near Earth's orbit and Shep gives the goodbye message.

 

I'm really not concerned in how we got "there". It's a new game, after all and Shep's universe is no more.

[AngryFrozenWater]

I sort of hope not. I want to cut those ties from the MW. All new races baby!

I'm with SKAR on this one. A new galaxy? Then show us what's new in that galaxy. I've already seen what's in the MW. And I rather don't want anything related to its story to continue. Even going back in MEA2 will be hard. The MW will either have the reapers or the effects of the three choices. No thanks.

 

But if we do find remnants (pun intended) of the MW then please don't let that revive anything big from the trilogy's story. Maybe one side quest would be the most I could stomach.

[SogaBan]

                                                                                     <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>

 

There are other possibilities, than an ancient blueprint.... strictly human made. Though, an "ancient" one works as well.

 

One.

Let's talk Alliance manufacturing capacity, for a sec. I believe it's huge.  The Solar System can have many manufacturing and fabrication units orbiting various locations in the solar system, which are in addition to the Earth based ones and possibly the colonies..

 

Two.

Based on the revelation of the Reapers in ME1, the Earth Alliance government may have "commandeered" manufacturing capacity to build  ships for a potential requirement for an escape plan. These events occur in ME2. We have Javiks stasis pods available for reverse engineering. The "new" pods are small and with proper stacking can be optimized to use as little space as possible, in a ship. Payment is to be done after the threat is over or if the Alliance collapses... well, there's no one left anyway.

 

Three.

The Arkon Project is the 1st thing in ME2,  that gets activated by the Alliance. Ships are designed and built (not as big as the Citadel... no need to with crew and colonists in pods). The government asks for volunteers to colonize new "found" planets outside the Collector Area of Operations (in ME2, Earth colonies are attacked). Also, military personnel are attached to the project and Leaders selected plus all sundry items for colonization, infrastructure support and defense is loaded into the ships.

 

Four.

The Engine for intergalactic travel. A sticky point but if Bio can do it, so can I. An experimental FTL engine that showed promise from a secret "Alliance Colony Management Lab" in ME1, is installed in the ships. These are huge engines that can propel the ARKs at higher speeds than the "standard" FTL drives. The can go to "higher bands" in multi-dimensional space which (from the traveler's point of view) reduces the distances between point A and B.

 

Five.

in ME3, the ARKs leave just before the first  Reaper invasion fleets arrive near Earth's orbit and Shep gives the goodbye message.

 

I'm really not concerned in how we got "there". It's a new game, after all and Shep's universe is no more.

 

Thanks for pouring in.

 

One: Just out of curiosity - does anyone actually know where the Crucible was assembled - because I don't remember reading anything about that in any codex. Have I missed something? Oh... while we are on the topic - the information on Crucible project was well known to Cerberus (why I suddenly mentioned this will be relevant later).

 

Two: That's one of the possibilities I mentioned before - I do agree. On the same note, I personally don't think humanity (or for that matter, any of the species of the current cycle) has the scientific/technological foundation to take such an initiative of building a gigantic vessel capable of intergalactic travel (why I say this? It was only the last of few stray prothean scientists who were able to decode the way the mass relays function - let alone reverse engineer one of them. The current cycle is still fumbling with that knowledge. Further, there is no documented evidence of reverse-engineering any of the prothean beacons/artifacts found till date by any of the species of the current cycle; stasis pods - as I believe - are even more advanced than those).

 

Three: Also a possibility - I agree - BUT it has to be a combined effort of all the council species - otherwise, it simply doesn't add up (please refer to #2). Even then it's actually hard to believe - with such a huge project - Cerberus never had any knowledge about the same! The reason being - Name One secret/classified mission/project/undertaking (exception, The Arrival dlc) that TIM was not privy to, through the entire trilogy. I can't remember any (I may be wrong though). The relevance of mentioning Cerberus - this knowledge was also known to the reapers, as well. If ARKCON was undertaken @ the beginning of ME2, while Shepard was in coma - there were basically two possibilities. First - Cerberus could have launched a preemptive strike and stop/delay the project; second - they could have slipped sleeper agents inside the whole infrastructure - the prognosis of which is even worse - the ARK could be exploded by TIM just before it was about to leave Milky Way in the beginning of ME3.

 

Four: You are probably 100% correct. I won't argue on this - since it has no point to begin with. It can be any Deus-ex machina (courtesy, creative writers of Bioware).

 

Five: Please refer to the second option of point #3.

 

 

I'm with SKAR on this one. A new galaxy? Then show us what's new in that galaxy. I've already seen what's in the MW. And I rather don't want anything related to its story to continue. Even going back in MEA2 will be hard. The MW will either have the reapers or the effects of the three choices. No thanks.

 

But if we do find remnants (pun intended) of the MW then please don't let that revive anything big from the trilogy's story. Maybe one side quest would be the most I could stomach.

 

I can respect your choices/preferences, though I don't agree with it.

 

What's the point of salvaging the whole universe and its resources if there is no reference/contextualization of the past-present-future events? If I want a completely NEW game - why can't Bioware just dump the entire franchise and create a COMPLETELY new IP with new universe and resources? Why "Mass Effect" Andromeda (and why not, let's say, Jingalala: Andromeda...  )?

 

My opinion, though - none has to agree on it.

[SKAR]

Thanks for pouring in.

One: Just out of curiosity - does anyone actually know where the Crucible was assembled - because I don't remember reading anything about that in any codex. Have I missed something? Oh... while we are on the topic - the information on Crucible project was well known to Cerberus (why I suddenly mentioned this will be relevant later).

Two: That's one of the possibilities I mentioned before - I do agree. On the same note, I personally don't think humanity (or for that matter, any of the species of the current cycle) has the scientific/technological foundation to take such an initiative of building a gigantic vessel capable of intergalactic travel (why I say this? It was only the last of few stray prothean scientists who were able to decode the way the mass relays function - let alone reverse engineer one of them. The current cycle is still fumbling with that knowledge. Further, there is no documented evidence of reverse-engineering any of the prothean beacons/artifacts found till date by any of the species of the current cycle; stasis pods - as I believe - are even more advanced than those).

Three: Also a possibility - I agree - BUT it has to be a combined effort of all the council species - otherwise, it simply doesn't add up (please refer to #2). Even then it's actually hard to believe - with such a huge project - Cerberus never had any knowledge about the same! The reason being - Name One secret/classified mission/project/undertaking (exception, The Arrival dlc) that TIM was not privy to, through the entire trilogy. I can't remember any (I may be wrong though). The relevance of mentioning Cerberus - this knowledge was also known to the reapers, as well. If ARKCON was undertaken @ the beginning of ME2, while Shepard was in coma - there were basically two possibilities. First - Cerberus could have launched a preemptive strike and stop/delay the project; second - they could have slipped sleeper agents inside the whole infrastructure - the prognosis of which is even worse - the ARK could be exploded by TIM just before it was about to leave Milky Way in the beginning of ME3.

Four: You are probably 100% correct. I won't argue on this - since it has no point to begin with. It can be any Deus-ex machina (courtesy, creative writers of Bioware).

Five: Please refer to the second option of point #3.



I can respect your choices/preferences, though I don't agree with it.

What's the point of salvaging the whole universe and its resources if there is no reference/contextualization of the past-present-future events? If I want a completely NEW game - why can't Bioware just dump the entire franchise and create a COMPLETELY new IP with new universe and resources? Why "Mass Effect" Andromeda (and why not, let's say, Jingalala: Andromeda... )?

My opinion, though - none has to agree on it.

Cause it's mass effect. Too many people love the series too much for them to dump it. I don't want to see it go. It's freaking awesome!!

[MrMrPendragon]

If there are people there (dead or alive) from the previous cycles, then I would also expect remnants of Reapers there too. They both use the same technology anyways.

[AngryFrozenWater]

I can respect your choices/preferences, though I don't agree with it.

 

What's the point of salvaging the whole universe and its resources if there is no reference/contextualization of the past-present-future events? If I want a completely NEW game - why can't Bioware just dump the entire franchise and create a COMPLETELY new IP with new universe and resources? Why "Mass Effect" Andromeda (and why not, let's say, Jingalala: Andromeda...  )?

 

My opinion, though - none has to agree on it.

You have to ask BW that.

 

I'm not trying to convince you, but maybe you find some more details behind my reasoning interesting.

 

It is obvious to me that BW didn't want to make a connection to the choices made in ME3. And I'm sure that I didn't dream that up.

 

I then would ask a similar question: If Andromeda turns out to be just like the MW without a Citadel (meaning everything else is the same) then why go there in the first place? I would love to explore Andromeda, but in that case anything related to the MW, except the species from the arks, have to go. Communication with the MW would be impossible anyway (depending on your choice every sapient being could be dead, etc.). We are not in the MW anymore. Enjoy the new stories, tech and species of Andromeda and the explorers from the MW.

 

A cameo of a colony that fled the reapers is OK, but when it drives the main story then it doesn't make sense anyway, because BW's reasons for leaving the MW would be lost. I don't find that appealing either. The threat would still be there. Unlike the mage/templar conflict there is no Solas in ME that can distract from that (other than the arks).

 

Another option is to stay in the MW and take the story forward by half a million years or so. Humanity could have been head-canoned back in, a cure for synthesis could have been found, Shepard pulled the plug from his/her reaper control, etc. But you would need to start over again anyway.

 

All the above is way too complicated. So, I rather have a story which doesn't involve the reaper history at all. Some of the MW races will be on the arks anyway. So that ME-feeling and the lore won't be lost. But, please extend it to Andromeda. It looks like we are not going away there anytime soon. Enjoy it, rather than make it something that it is not: The new MW with a new name that happens to be Andromeda.

[SKAR]

If there are people there (dead or alive) from the previous cycles, then I would also expect remnants of Reapers there too. They both use the same technology anyways.

Remnants of reapers? You mean Leviathan? Doubt it. Maybe. Who knows. I think bioware wants to keep the reaps with the orig tril. But it'd be a shame if they weren't referenced or somethin.

[SogaBan]

You have to ask BW that.

 

I'm not trying to convince you, but maybe you find some more details behind my reasoning interesting.

 

It is obvious to me that BW didn't want to make a connection to the choices made in ME3. And I'm sure that I didn't dream that up.

 

I then would ask a similar question: If Andromeda turns out to be just like the MW without a Citadel (meaning everything else is the same) then why go there in the first place? I would love to explore Andromeda, but in that case anything related to the MW, except the species from the arks, have to go. Communication with the MW would be impossible anyway (depending on your choice every sapient being could be dead, etc.). We are not in the MW anymore. Enjoy the new stories, tech and species of Andromeda and the explorers from the MW.

 

A cameo of a colony that fled the reapers is OK, but when it drives the main story then it doesn't make sense anyway, because BW's reasons for leaving the MW would be lost. I don't find that appealing either. The threat would still be there. Unlike the mage/templar conflict there is no Solas in ME that can distract from that.

 

Another option is to stay in the MW and take the story forward by half a million years or so. Humanity could have been head-canoned back in, a cure for synthesis could have been found, Shepard pulled the plug from his/her reaper control, etc. But you would need to start over again anyway.

 

All the above is way too complicated. So, I rather have a story which doesn't involve the reaper history at all. Some of the MW races will be on the arks anyway. So that ME-feeling and the lore won't be lost. But, please extend it to Andromeda. It looks like we are not going away there anytime soon. Enjoy it, rather than make it something that it is not: The new MW with a new name that happens to be Andromeda.

Once again, I can respect your perspective.

 

What I was trying to avoid so carefully so long was that - we all know none of our decision(s)/expectation(s)/hope(s) matter(s) to EA-Bioware. "Mass Effect" these two words have become a brand (thanks to us, the fans) and also a cash-cow for EA. They had us invested in the brand for so long - for a reason, of course!!

 

The brand value kinda dwindled with ME3 ending fiasco and the publisher simply wants to PRETEND that they wanna make amendments to what they have done wrong and salvage the situation as much as they can - the easy and lazy way. Which is - by creating new faces/new places/new resources but all packed under the same brand.

 

It makes things easier - nobody is gonna ask any legitimate queries, even if they want to (because there is sorta no past and the current characters are NOT obliged to explain the previous discrepancies). It serves threefold purposes - gaining new "fan" (read, customers), that is without inciting anger/disappointment with the already existing ones and thirdly, creating another rip-offs with minimum investments (in terms of creative, logical, consistent and rational story writing, art direction, etc.). As it's said, it's much easier to draw on a clean slate than to alter/morph/change an existing ugly state and present it in the most redeeming way possible. But that's me and my whining reason(s). EVERYTHING is fair in business and war - isn't it? But let's please leave those obvious and mundane stuffs.

 

Returning back to the topic, I once again like to re-iterate - I like exploring the possibilities - purely on a fictional academic perspective (knowing fully well, none of this discussion will matter) - that's the only reason I started the thread. Thanks to all the posters - I learned so many things in the process, as well.

[nfi42]

I can respect your choices/preferences, though I don't agree with it.

 

What's the point of salvaging the whole universe and its resources if there is no reference/contextualization of the past-present-future events? If I want a completely NEW game - why can't Bioware just dump the entire franchise and create a COMPLETELY new IP with new universe and resources? Why "Mass Effect" Andromeda (and why not, let's say, Jingalala: Andromeda...  )?

 

 

Well one obvious reason is that having  Mass Effect in the title will sell more copy.

[SogaBan]

Well one obvious reason is that having  Mass Effect in the title will sell more copy.

Precisely!

 

I was just trying to have an academic discussion among ourselves - no more, no less...

[Blueblood]

It would be quite funny if some species from every cycle fled to Andromeda, and we're just the latest. They all know about the reapers and with each cycle that comes to Andromeda they ask the new cycle whether the reapers were destroyed. Of course, Ryder and co won't be able to answer that question. Possibly the past races would have evolved too. Dahh, daydreams.

[Vortex13]

For those interested, a good discussion on race vs species.

Bottom line, race is not an accepted term used by scientists with respect to humans. And certainly not aliens.


http://www.sciforums...species.107872/


Further, some relate even using the term race applying it to humans is racist behavior.

http://english.stack...-common-mistake

 

 

Yeah, no one calls a pit bull or a bulldog different 'races' of dog, but rather a different breed.

 

That's all we are, a collection of different breeds of human.