I'm not concerned with you Bad Writing comments. Get that you think that and that's cool. But like I said before, they cannot be rationally rebuked as anything goes in an irrational storyline. Therefore, engaging you in discussion about it makes no sense. You could literal make any claim and not have to back it up with anything. So, just so you know in the future, I will NOT be responding to "it's just stupid nonsense writing" comments. As soon as you head in that direction I stop reading.
And for the record, if you look through the Deception Thread plenty of people "got it". There are people in this thread who get it. You're more than welcome to disagree. As I've said on more than one occasion, the Bad Writing Theory is the only other valid theory out there. I personally don't subscribe to it, but I understand how you could come to that conclusion. So the idea that I'm mad at you for choosing to think that way is absurd. But again, it exists outside the realm of rational discussion as it purports the world of Mass Effect is itself irrational and written by complete idiots. So again, to reiterate, there is nothing to be discussed concerning the Bad Writing Theory. You simply believe it or you don't.
Good thing Shepard is not indoctrinated into a Reaper thrall (prior to Green, Blue and Refuse, anyway) or that distinction might be relevant. The Queen says, "We only heard discordance, songs the color of oily shadows." Songs.
I believe the oily shadows in the dreams are a visual call back to that, but it's just my take. They aren't necessary to prove my case. You should probably listen to the dream audio a little more carefully (see link below). There were oily shadows, indistinct cacophony of whispers, etc. More than just companion dialog. It really makes no sense outside of reaper influence. The very fact that Shepard should talk to Harbinger at the end of Arrival already proves he's been affected. The fact that the Reapers used the Kid form is indisputable proof that they are in his head. To deny this is absurd and would show a person is being willfully ignorant of the facts
His eyes show "huskification" in those last moments. They change to the TIM version, which are different in design, not just color. So the Control prong does make at least a physiological alteration to Shepard prior to absorbing him. Those eyes TIM has are the product of an Arca Monolith, a Reaper device that turns people into husks instantly. That device also used blue electricity arcs to transform the host. This is in the TIM origin comic written my Mac Walters. The fact that he used the same imagery for Control is interesting to say the least.
Songs are how the Rachni communicate and sense the world around them. Many believe the shades in the dreams are a visual call back to that but that's a misunderstanding. Yes, there is whispering in the dreams but the dialogue comes through clearly, as does repetition of "Shepard." Indoctrination is never described in a way to match the dream sequences. The better interpretation of both the dreams and the hallucinations of the child (except perhaps for the first look at the very beginning of the game) is that Shepard's mind is cracking from the weight that's been on his shoulders for three games. What does Shepard talking to Harbinger in Arrival, which may not have happened, have to do with this?
As to why the Catalyst uses the child's form, I admit I don't have a good answer. However, I am also unsure of what significance to give it because the Catalyst doesn't call attention to it and Shepard either doesn't notice or doesn't care.
The only difference between Shepard and TIM's eyes in ME2 is color and orientation. Renegade Shepard's are simply upside down. The TIM comic is secondary media and therefore entirely irrelevant to the trilogy.
Quote me. Link the post #.
I did quote you in that post.
I'm not concerned with you Bad Writing comments. Get that you think that and that's cool. But like I said before, they cannot be rationally rebuked as anything goes in an irrational storyline. Therefore, engaging you in discussion about it makes no sense. You could literal make any claim and not have to back it up with anything. So, just so you know in the future, I will NOT be responding to "it's just stupid nonsense writing" comments. As soon as you head in that direction I stop reading.
And for the record, if you look through the Deception Thread plenty of people "got it". There are people in this thread who get it. You're more than welcome to disagree. As I've said on more than one occasion, the Bad Writing Theory is the only other valid theory out there. I personally don't subscribe to it, but I understand how you could come to that conclusion. So the idea that I'm mad at you for choosing to think that way is absurd. But again, it exists outside the realm of rational discussion as it purports the world of Mass Effect is itself irrational and written by complete idiots. So again, to reiterate, there is nothing to be discussed concerning the Bad Writing Theory. You simply believe it or you don't.
All this is telling me is that you're ignoring the plain meaning of the writing to invent your own story. Go right ahead, but you're just polishing a turd.
Yes, there is whispering in the dreams but the dialogue comes through clearly, as does repetition of "Shepard." Indoctrination is never described in a way to match the dream sequences.
It is. Strange dreams are noted in the Cerberus team logs on the derelict Reaper. So are hallucinations which the kid and the Harbinger convo are. And, no, the Reaper dialog is not clear. Unless you speak Reaperese. Go listen to that clip again. Start at 51 secs. I see you conveniently ignored that.
The better interpretation of both the dreams and the hallucinations of the child (except perhaps for the first look at the very beginning of the game) is that Shepard's mind is cracking from the weight that's been on his shoulders for three games. What does Shepard talking to Harbinger in Arrival, which may not have happened, have to do with this?
Yeah, if the weight of the world was on my shoulders I'd be dreaming about some random kid I saw one time instead of all the people I actually care about. That totally makes more sense /sarcasm.
Anyhoo, the end of Arrival it establishes that Shepard has been affected to the point where he can be made to see Reaper induced hallucinations. He was chilling in the presence of a Reaper artifact that indoctrinated an entire station crew. But I guess the Reapers turned it off when Shepard arrived, right?
As to why the Catalyst uses the child's form, I admit I don't have a good answer. However, I am also unsure of what significance to give it because the Catalyst doesn't call attention to it and Shepard either doesn't notice or doesn't care.
Yes, which is evidence of his mind slipping. When he's talking to TIM on the Citadel what do you think is happening? You think all those electronic sounds and whispering aren't the Reapers using TIM's body to amplify their indoctrination attempts. None of it makes any sense outside of the Reapers trying hard to indoctrinate him.
Mass Effect Codex...
Reaper indoctrination is an insidious means of corrupting organic minds, reprogramming the brain through physical and psychological conditioning using electromagnetic fields, infrasonic and ultrasonic noise, and other subliminal methods. The Reaper's resulting control over the limbic system leaves the victim highly susceptible to its suggestions.
Organics undergoing indoctrination may complain of headaches and buzzing or ringing in their ears. As time passes, they have feelings of "being watched" and hallucinations of "ghostly" presences. Ultimately, the Reaper gains the ability to use the victim's body to amplify its signals, manifesting as "alien" voices in the mind.
Indoctrination can create perfect deep cover agents. A Reaper's suggestions can manipulate victims into betraying friends, trusting enemies, or viewing the Reaper itself with superstitious awe. Should a Reaper subvert a well-placed political or military leader, the resulting chaos can bring down nations
The only difference between Shepard and TIM's eyes in ME2 is color and orientation. Renegade Shepard's are simply upside down. The TIM comic is secondary media and therefore entirely irrelevant to the trilogy.
Now you're just straight up lying.
TIM's eyes have a hollow center, three dots surround it in a triangle pattern and additional curved segments in a circular pattern between the dots. Shepard's eyes have a solid center and three dots in a different orientation than TIM's. And that's it.
Shepard's eyes turn into the TIM eyes. Bioware specifically put that into the game. They did not have to do that, but made a conscious choice to change his eyes and the color of his synthetics. Even if the only difference was color and being upside down it would still be a change. You're in denial.
The comics are canon. So are the books. Try again. You clearly aren't interested in an honest discussion and will just say anything, ignore anything and straight up lie to yourself rather than acknowledge the facts.
It is the most thematically consistent ending, even if it is bad for other reasons.
No offense. Honest. But you would have to be a mental nutcase to actually believe that. It literally flies in the face of the entire plot, not to mention the character of Shepard throughout the entire series. Shepard might as well have just shot himself in the head on Earth when the Reapers arrived. Or after beating Saren, ignore Vigil's data file and just lie down and let Sovereign win. That's the equivalent of Refuse.
No offense. Honest. But you would have to be a mental nutcase to actually believe that. It literally flies in the face of the entire plot, not to mention the character of Shepard throughout the entire series. Shepard might as well have just shot himself in the head on Earth when the Reapers arrived. Or after beating Saren, ignore Vigil's data file and just lie down and let Sovereign win. That's the equivalent of Refuse.
Actually you just have to know the basics of writer's craft, which you clearly do not.
What doesn't make sense to me is people who saved the Geth and yet still want to get rid of the Reapers. Like Iakus above.
Let me just say, that while Patrick Weekes is one of the best writers currently working for Bioware and while I usually like his work, he horribly mishandled the geth in giving them a Pinocchio complex in ME3. I think giving them the Reaper code to turn them into "real boys" is a mistake, and I would not do it if it was possible to save them otherwise.
That said, these "new geth" still deserve a chance to live. They are still life, if a different form of life than they were before.
In addition, geth are not the only beings the Red wave kills. It destroys all synthetic life: including EDI, the shackled AI in the Attican Traverse, the virtual aliens, any AI out there in unexplored space that did nothing to harm us. It's genocide, even if people like to split hairs over whether it's real genocide.
Hmm, you got any more bs attempts to excuse away the facts I presented in the previous post or have you had enough of a beating like Xilizhra?
Ha, yeah keep telling yourself that's what's been happening. You presented no facts to counter the point I made. You couldn't because you know nothing about it. When I mention themes, you focused on the end result. You just called me a nutcase.
Ha, yeah keep telling yourself that's what's been happening. You presented no facts to counter the point I made. You couldn't because you know nothing about it. When I mention themes, you focused on the end result. You just called me a nutcase.
Themes? Mass Effects themes have nothing to do with Refuse. Making a baseless assertion is not an argument. Where is your evidence? Where are your examples? Exactly. There are none. You're now trying to ignore everything else and merely mention "the basics of writing" as if that phrase can dig you out of the hole you've dug. As if all the concrete indisputable facts I've beat you across the head with don't exist. What? Are the game files lying? LOL.
You called yourself a nutcase. I don't believe you honestly believe the things you say. You're just too prideful to admit your 100% wrong. I destroyed you. I have pictures and sound files from the game proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that you straight up lied. And you KNOW this. That's why you shut your trap and didn't respond because you KNOW you are beaten. It's best you follow Xilizhra's example and stay down. To do otherwise will only further your embarrassment.
Suuuuure. Whatever you say person who did even know the Reapers made the Mass Relays. LOL. I totally did not humble you.
So, if the Reapers did build the Citadel, they were clearly not intelligent enough to allow the Catalyst to control it, which points to a distinct lack of creative thinking that would surely diminish their ability to include a backup trap as weird and abstract as you claim.
Once again. Another display of blatant unapologetic ignorance on your part. Let's go to Cronos Station, after speaking with TIM.
Shepard: Yes. I need to know what the Catalyst is!
Prothean VI: Security protocols have been overridden. I will comply.
Prothean VI: The Catalyst enhances dark energy transmissions and coordinate the entire mass relay network. In your cycle, it's known as the Citadel.
Shepard: What?
Prothean VI: The Catalyst is the Citadel.
[...]
Shepard: But... the Citadel was built by the Reapers. (included to compliment the Leviathan comments)
The VI goes on to state that the Crucible did not always utilize the Citadel, but at some point in time it was because it wasn't powerful enough on its own. Please, go watch the entire conversation for yourself and get enlightened.
Interesting, because one thing we know from ME1 is that the Protheans also called the Citadel the Citadel, as Vigil states. Since Vendetta's words imply that "Catalyst" is a term used to describe the Citadel outside the current cycle, it stands to reason that the Protheans working on the Crucible uncovered the name "Catalyst" in a reference used by a past cycle (and only the Protheans working on the Crucible; Vigil knew nothing of it). So we still have nothing on what "Catalyst" was originally supposed to refer to as spoken by the people who coined the term.
What would you call Synthesis? I must have missed the part where everyone in the galaxy took a vote on it. Do you even think before you type your drivel? Try again.
It appears that Synthesis only works if the galaxy is in sufficient harmony, which is why it requires the most war assets to unlock; effectively, Synthesis being unlocked is a sign that the galaxy has been brought together to a degree strong enough for it to work. How this is determined, I have no idea, but it's the only way that line makes sense.
Also, your creationism analogy would only work if Mass Effect wasn't an artificially created universe to begin with.
*reads through assorted posts and decides that it was a waste of time*
Gee, this is like the ME3 forums all over again - only with the OP's grammar error the thread title thrown in to drive me nuts!
The only thing I really have to say is in response to everyone in the universe who hates Synthesis: Destroy, Control, and Refusal are the worst. Long live Synthesis!
I used to write intelligent and rational posts on the subject, but at this point, I would say the main reason that I support Synthesis is because in a utopian future, I probably wouldn't have to still be reading about people complaining/venting/whatever over the ME3 endings and their impact/lack of impact on other games in the ME series years and years and years and even more years after ME3 was released. /endsnark
*reads through assorted posts and decides that it was a waste of time*
Gee, this is like the ME3 forums all over again - only with the OP's grammar error the thread title thrown in to drive me nuts!
The only thing I really have to say is in response to everyone in the universe who hates Synthesis: Destroy, Control, and Refusal are the worst. Long live Synthesis!
I used to write intelligent and rational posts on the subject, but at this point, I would say the main reason that I support Synthesis is because in a utopian future, I probably wouldn't have to still be reading about people complaining/venting/whatever over the ME3 endings and their impact/lack of impact on other games in the ME series years and years and years and even more years after ME3 was released. /endsnark
It was nothing like the ME3 forums. At least, not until you arrived and made one of these types of posts. Now it's like the ME3 forums.
Well, this quickly devolved into an ME ending debate, that's quite impressive after more than four years. I really can't remember any moment the endings were discussed so intensely in the ME:A forums.
For all those still wondering about the endings though: It's bad writing.
You know, those people who come in saying their above it all or wagging their fingers saying, "oh, those darn BSN people", yet still throw in there my choice as the best and tell everyone how theirs is stupid hoping to stoke the flames more. That's what the thread was missing. Now it has that. Now it's a 2013 ME3 thread.
In addition, geth are not the only beings the Red wave kills. It destroys all synthetic life: including EDI, the shackled AI in the Attican Traverse, the virtual aliens, any AI out there in unexplored space that did nothing to harm us. It's genocide, even if people like to split hairs over whether it's real genocide.
If you did more than 1 playthrough of ME3, did you make peace each time? If so, great. If you didn't, does that mean you committed genocide when choosing one side over the other? How is it different with destroy?
So, if the Reapers did build the Citadel, they were clearly not intelligent enough to allow the Catalyst to control it, which points to a distinct lack of creative thinking that would surely diminish their ability to include a backup trap as weird and abstract as you claim.
Nor intelligent enough to build the relays in the first place or come up with the Cycle to begin with, right? The only problem is they obviously did have a backup which was already been proven. You yourself put your own foot in your own mouth remember? Let's refresh your memory.
The Control and Synthesis arrays are preinstalled into the Citadel. Hard wired in. They were there before the Crucible arrived. In response, you said the Reaper must have stockpiled nanites beforehand (i.e. before the Crucible ever docked). Remember that, sweetie? Can I take it you'll just keep pulling some new and equally stupid out of your butt each time? Anything not to admit your wrong?
(As you can see here, Natureguy85, the subject is now scrapping the bottom of the barrel. Look at Xilizhra. She is unapologetically ignorant on just about every aspect of the game. That is how pride looks AFTER the fall. Don't be that. Don't embarrass yourself.)
Interesting, because one thing we know from ME1 is that the Protheans also called the Citadel the Citadel, as Vigil states. Since Vendetta's words imply that "Catalyst" is a term used to describe the Citadel outside the current cycle, it stands to reason that the Protheans working on the Crucible uncovered the name "Catalyst" in a reference used by a past cycle (and only the Protheans working on the Crucible; Vigil knew nothing of it). So we still have nothing on what "Catalyst" was originally supposed to refer to as spoken by the people who coined the term.
Go watch the video like I told before and enlighten yourself, dearie. Don't you remember? The conversation with the Prothean VI on Cronos Station? You're still speaking in ignorance and there is really no excuse. I mean, come on, I told you exactly what to watch. This is getting a bit ridiculous don't you think?
Do I seriously need to hand feed you this stuff? Skip to 14:24:
(OK, take note of this, Natureguy85. She already been told the facts and was directed to go watch the scene in question. She either did not and willfully remained ignorant, yet chose to continue making a complete fool out of herself or she saw it, ignored the in game cutscene and choses to, in essence, lie about the in game contents. Do you really want to look as silly as her?)
It appears that Synthesis only works if the galaxy is in sufficient harmony, which is why it requires the most war assets to unlock; effectively, Synthesis being unlocked is a sign that the galaxy has been brought together to a degree strong enough for it to work. How this is determined, I have no idea, but it's the only way that line makes sense.
"Sufficient Harmony". LOL... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! You really shouldn't have took my bait, but I had a feeling you'd give me some good laughs. You do not disappoint.
The only way it makes sense is if it's complete rubbish. There you go scrapping the bottom of the barrel again. I think you're licking it at this point and have a tongue full of splinters. First it's "the Kid judges the entire galaxy on Shepard's choice" (LOLwhat?) Now it's the EMS score.It's reaper nanites. Since when do they require willingness? Where is the scene where the green cloud stops and forms into sentences asking people's permission to infect them? So Paul Grayson willing became a super husk? Do you even know who that is? What will you pull out of you arse next once I bury this latest nonsense of yours? That it's based on the amount of hours you've played the game? Or maybe it's based on how many ambient conversations you heard on the Citadel? LOL.
As I has already been pointed out, EMS determines the state of the Crucible upon docking. Less assets equal a weaker fleet which equates to the extent the Reapers damage the Crucible. *sigh* Let me refresh your memory... again.
You think you'll be able to handle that or do I need to point out the exact quote for you?
(Natureguy85, there is nothing more to say. I think Xilizhra unapologetic ignorance speaks for itself. This is the path you are heading down. Don't do it. Don't you do it!!! Admit when you're wrong (or just tuck tail and run) while you still have some dignity left. Although Xilizhra is a laugh for everyone's enjoyment, it's equally sad at the same time.)
Nor intelligent enough to build the relays in the first place or come up with the Cycle to begin with, right? The only problem is they obviously did have a backup which was already been proven. You yourself put your own foot in your own mouth remember? Let's refresh your memory.
The Control and Synthesis arrays are preinstalled into the Citadel. Hard wired in. They were there before the Crucible arrived. In response, you said the Reaper must have stockpiled nanites beforehand (i.e. before the Crucible ever docked). Remember that, sweetie? Can I take it you'll just keep pulling some new and equally stupid out of your butt each time? Anything not to admit your wrong?
(As you can see here, Natureguy85, the subject is now scrapping the bottom of the barrel. Look at Xilizhra. She is unapologetically ignorant on just about every aspect of the game. That is how pride looks AFTER the fall. Don't be that. Don't embarrass yourself.)
So you've proved approximately nothing thus far apart from the Crucible having been initially designed to destroy the Reapers, with new functionalities having been unlocked when it joins with the Catalyst. That still doesn't mean it's a trap.
Go watch the video like I told before and enlighten yourself, dearie. Don't you remember? The conversation with the Prothean VI on Cronos Station? You're still speaking in ignorance and there is really no excuse. I mean, come on, I told you exactly what to watch. This is getting a bit ridiculous don't you think?
Do I seriously need to hand feed you this stuff? Skip to 14:24:
(OK, take note of this, Natureguy85. She already been told the facts and was directed to go watch the scene in question. She either did not and willfully remained ignorant, yet chose to continue making a complete fool out of herself or she saw it, ignored the in game cutscene and choses to, in essence, lie about the in game contents. Do you really want to look as silly as her?)
Which... I addressed already. This isn't actually a reply to what I said.
"Sufficient Harmony". LOL... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! You really shouldn't have took my bait, but I had a feeling you'd give me some good laughs. You do not disappoint.
The only way it makes sense is if it's complete rubbish. There you go scrapping the bottom of the barrel again. I think you're licking it at this point and have a tongue full of splinters. First it's "the Kid judges the entire galaxy on Shepard's choice" (LOLwhat?) Now it's the EMS score.It's reaper nanites. Since when do they require willingness? Where is the scene where the green cloud stops and forms into sentences asking people's permission to infect them? So Paul Grayson willing became a super husk? Do you even know who that is? What will you pull out of you arse next once I bury this latest nonsense of yours? That it's based on the amount of hours you've played the game? Or maybe it's based on how many ambient conversations you heard on the Citadel? LOL.
As I has already been pointed out, EMS determines the state of the Crucible upon docking. Less assets equal a weaker fleet which equates to the extent the Reapers damage the Crucible. *sigh* Let me refresh your memory... again.
You think you'll be able to handle that or do I need to point out the exact quote for you?
(Natureguy85, there is nothing more to say. I think Xilizhra unapologetic ignorance speaks for itself. This is the path you are heading down. Don't do it. Don't you do it!!! Admit when you're wrong (or just tuck tail and run) while you still have some dignity left. Although Xilizhra is a laugh for everyone's enjoyment, it's equally sad at the same time.)
"Forced," in context, obviously isn't being used in an individualistic manner, but in relation to galactic society as a whole.
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