1042 réponses à ce sujet

[straykat]

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ME3's ending was salvageable (imo) by not killing Shep and by having the Catalyst admit its solution was wrong and have itself destroyed along with the Reapers.

 

Casey and Co. felt they tied themselves into a knot by :

1. Wanting to end the trilogy in a "final" manner

2. The need to provided ending "choices" for the players (because of marketing hype)

3, Players identified Mass Effect with Shep.

 

The good news is that Walters and Flynn are aware of the errors and are not about to repeat them with ME:A

 

I don't know anything about Flynn, but I do actually believe that about Walters. He saw errors in the characters, for example, and tried to make up for it with Citadel and comics. It's not perfect, but I thought it was cool. Maybe it's the same with other things.

[Fixers0]

It's absolutely genocide. You're intentionally choosing to exterminate the geth.

 

There is no race. Therefore there can be no genocide.

[straykat]

The big line was: "Does this unit have a soul?"

 

Not "This unit has a soul."

[iM3GTR]

The big line was: "Does this unit have a soul?"

Not "This unit has a soul."

"No, only Quarians have souls."

[Xilizhra]

Yeah, dude... since when did it become Fact that AI is so much like life that we toss around words like genocide so easily.

 

Fun's fun, but geez. Hudson himself said he created the game merely to pose questions. Not to dispense answers. That's up to you. None of us know ****... because it doesn't exist yet.

It's not difficult to discern that slaughtering the entirety of a self-willed race of thinking creatures is genocide, no matter what they're made of.

[straykat]

It's not difficult to discern that slaughtering the entirety of a self-willed race of thinking creatures is genocide, no matter what they're made of.

 

It's not slaughter. You're merely not letting them upload Reaper code..... which would "kill" them too btw. The Geth as we know them are screwed either way.

 

Personally, I'd give them an indefinite amount of time to flourish, if it weren't for the Reapers. Blame them if you're going to blame anyone. They hate AI more than anyone, ironically.

[Xilizhra]

It's not slaughter. You're merely not letting them upload Reaper code..... which would "kill" them too btw. The Geth as we know them are screwed either way.

No, it wouldn't. It's an upgrade.

 

 

Personally, I'd give them an indefinite amount of time to flourish, if it weren't for the Reapers. Blame them if you're going to blame anyone. They hate AI more than anyone, ironically.

I do blame them. And you.

[Laughing_Man]

No, it wouldn't. It's an upgrade.

 

Maybe in the same sense that the Illusive Man and Saren "upgraded" themselves.

[straykat]

No, it wouldn't. It's an upgrade.

 

 

I do blame them. And you.

 

You blame me? Aww shucks.

 

It's not an upgrade. It's a completely different identity and/or system. A revolution. It sounds like I appreciate what it is more than you do.

[Xilizhra]

Maybe in the same sense that the Illusive Man and Saren "upgraded" themselves.

It doesn't destroy their free will.

 

 

You blame me? Aww shucks.

 

It's not an upgrade. It's a completely different identity and/or system. A revolution. It sounds like I appreciate what it is more than you do.

They retain their memories and identity from before, they're just vastly expanded.

[Laughing_Man]

It doesn't destroy their free will.

 

Obviously it did. The fact that even naturally strong willed individuals like them barely managed to fight it off for a moment even when you showed them the error of their ways, just shows how strong this control is. (and that's a Reaper trying to be "subtle" with indoctrination...)

[Xilizhra]

Obviously it did. The fact that even naturally strong willed individuals like them barely managed to fight it off for a moment even when you showed them the error of their ways, just shows how strong this control is.

I was talking about the geth upgrade.

[KaiserShep]

They retain their memories and identity from before, they're just vastly expanded.

 

 

Wreav is a weird case though. If this is indeed true, his outcome should be the same, especially since Synthesis magically undoes the genophage.

[Xilizhra]

Wreav is a weird case though. If this is indeed true, his outcome should be the same, especially since Synthesis magically undoes the genophage.

Er, we were never talking about Synthesis.

[Laughing_Man]

I was talking about the geth upgrade.

 

And you assume that because they are machines the Reapers wouldn't influence them? They already did it with the "heretics" once.

[Xilizhra]

And you assume that because they are machines the Reapers wouldn't influence them? They already did it with the "heretics" once.

Well, the Reapers don't "influence" them, so I think we're good. In any case, the heretics chose to follow the Reapers, they weren't indoctrinated.

[straykat]

It doesn't destroy their free will.

 

 

They retain their memories and identity from before, they're just vastly expanded.

 

The new Prime refers to itself as an "I", not a "We". That's not the Geth.

[Laughing_Man]

Well, the Reapers don't "influence" them, so I think we're good. In any case, the heretics chose to follow the Reapers, they weren't indoctrinated.

 

Maybe they did, maybe the Reapers were going to use them in the long game of rooting out pockets of resistance after the main fight is over, like they did with the collectors.

 

And the heretics were influenced by a virus that changed their core logic, IIRC legion's explanation from ME2.

[Xilizhra]

The new Prime refers to itself as an "I", not a "We". That's not the Geth.

It's a new form of geth. And they chose the upgrade.

[KaiserShep]

Er, we were never talking about Synthesis.

 

 

Ooh this is what I get for not following properly. Anyway, regarding the geth, the fact that Legion goes to I instead of we kind of undoes that collective with it. I mean, wouldn't each individual program become fully developed and no longer dependent on each other to be fully aware AI?  Regardless of anything, I just think that the narrative around the geth and these upgrades is kind of disheartening. I would've much rather had some way to save them without totally altering them. 

[straykat]

It's a new form of geth. And they chose the upgrade.

 

They didn't choose the upgrade. You did. 

 

And it's not even a new form of Geth. A new form of Geth would reach it's peak on it's own, in it's own unique way, if things were ideal. The very thing Legion used to strive for. The thing all life strives for. Except this.

[Laughing_Man]

Going back to the original question, assuming you can't convince the Quarians and Geth to make peace, the question of whether it is genocide to destroy a race of robots becomes rather irrelevant.

 

1. The Geth have a history of working with the Reapers, and are now in the process of recieving a Reaper "Upgrade".

 

2. You don't really know at this point if the Geth won't simply become all "heretics" and attack you on-sight once the upgrade is complete.

 

3. Destroying the Quarians is most certainly genocide.

 

My conclusion is that if peace is impossible, a logical commander Shepard would choose the Quarians over the Geth any day.

The Geth are a wild card at best and a potential enemy at worst.

[Xilizhra]

They didn't choose the upgrade. You did.

I'm pretty sure Legion did, actually.

 

 

Maybe they did, maybe the Reapers were going to use them in the long game of rooting out pockets of resistance after the main fight is over, like they did with the collectors.

 

And the heretics were influenced by a virus that changed their core logic, IIRC legion's explanation from ME2.

No, the virus didn't alter the original heretics; the heretics were planning to release a virus to alter the true geth.

 

 

Going back to the original question, assuming you can't convince the Quarians and Geth to make peace, the question of whether it is genocide to destroy a race of robots becomes rather irrelevant.

 

1. The Geth have a history of working with the Reapers, and are now in the process of recieving a Reaper "Upgrade".

 

2. You don't really know at this point if the Geth won't simply become all "heretics" and attack you on-sight once the upgrade is complete.

 

3. Destroying the Quarians is most certainly genocide.

 

My conclusion is that if peace is impossible, a logical commander Shepard would choose the Quarians over the Geth any day.

The Geth are a wild card at best and a potential enemy at worst.

Well, a "logical" Shepard would choose whichever side gave more war assets.

[themikefest]

It's absolutely genocide. You're intentionally choosing to exterminate the geth.

You want to call it genocide, go ahead. I don't call it genocide. Nor do I call it genocide when choosing destroy if I choose the geth over the quarians. All I care about is stopping the reapers. I do that by not letting the geth have the code and choosing destroy to destroy the reapers

[Xilizhra]

You want to call it genocide, go ahead. I don't call it genocide. Nor do I call it genocide when choosing destroy if I choose the geth over the quarians. All I care about is stopping the reapers. I do that by not letting the geth have the code and choosing destroy to destroy the reapers

If you think that claiming it isn't genocide gives you any kind of moral ground to stand on, you're mistaken.