1042 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

Yeah, you may be right. I haven't counted, but there appear to be thousands of Reapers there. Although, is that really all that many when the Reapers hit all over rather than going system by system fleets can be amassed and moved, and the Thanix cannon is on fighters now?

There's a count floating around in the low hundreds, although I don't know the methodology.

Note that as Reaper strength relative to Citadel forces decreases, the war gets worse rather than better. Burning high-population planets from orbit in an hour rather than trying to hold them for a decade becomes the rational strategy. As bad as the situation on Earth , Palaven and Thessia was, this represents what happens when the Reapers play nice because they don't need to worry about losing the war. Bekenstein is what happens when they don't.

The Reaper force has to be outright weaker, a good deal weaker, than Citadel forces to make a Reaper guerilla strategy unworkable.

But who said anything about winning in a day and without significant loss? The game could still require amassing the super fleet.

And then there's a long, drawn-out period of actually using the super fleet. Though I suppose you could just handwave the whole war the way Pearl Harbor did, I don't think it would have worked here.

How was the narrative bending backwards to give you agency? Specters and their power and independence were established well before Shepard ever became one. The game is merely delivering on that buildup. Sure, players are going to differ on what exactly that does for them, but at least it tries.

It's bending over backwards because it's delivering only the freedom, not the constraints. Saren will wait patiently for me to do whatever SQs I feel like. That's not the universe Shepard is living in.

[Laughing_Man]

There's a count floating around in the low hundreds, although I don't know the methodology.

 

Reaper strength is handled very sloppily in ME3, both numbers and the relative strength of Reapers Vs. citadel warships.

 

In the same universe you have Nazara shrugging off overwhelming firepower during the battle of the citadel and ripping apart any ship that got too close, you have most of the Quarian fleet shooting at a single Reaper for barely any effect for quite some time, and yet we have cutscenes that show slugging matches between fleets of Reapers and Citadel ships that surprisingly don't end as swiftly as they should by the Reapers tearing everyone apart.

 

And then at the end of the game suddenly a few missiles or Cain rounds are capable of doing what entire fleets barely managed to do...

[Natureguy85]

There's a count floating around in the low hundreds, although I don't know the methodology.

Note that as Reaper strength relative to Citadel forces decreases, the war gets worse rather than better. Burning high-population planets from orbit in an hour rather than trying to hold them for a decade becomes the rational strategy. As bad as the situation on Earth , Palaven and Thessia was, this represents what happens when the Reapers play nice because they don't need to worry about losing the war. Bekenstein is what happens when they don't.

The Reaper force has to be outright weaker, a good deal weaker, than Citadel forces to make a Reaper guerilla strategy unworkable.

 

Which makes it weird that when you have high military effectiveness or whatever the MP thing is called, it says they are pushing the Reapers back. Anyway, you're right. It would be hard to change just one small thing. A small change would probably require other changes and so on. ME2 decided to go a different way than the path laid out by the end of the first game and ME3 was crippled by ME2's lack of progress toward the goal of stopping the Reapers.

 

 

 

It's bending over backwards because it's delivering only the freedom, not the constraints. Saren will wait patiently for me to do whatever SQs I feel like. That's not the universe Shepard is living in.

 

True, but that's video games. It's not that Saren is waiting, it's that whatever he is doing moves at the speed of Shepard. I was happy they put any time issue in with the crew abduction.

 

 

 

 

Reaper strength is handled very sloppily in ME3, both numbers and the relative strength of Reapers Vs. citadel warships.

 

In the same universe you have Nazara shrugging off overwhelming firepower during the battle of the citadel and ripping apart any ship that got too close, you have the most of the Quarian fleet shooting at a single Reaper for barely any effect for quite some time, and yet we have cutscenes that show slugging matches between fleets of Reapers and Citadel ships that surprisingly don't end as swiftly as they should by the Reapers tearing everyone apart.

 

And then at the end of the game suddenly a few missiles or Cain rounds are capable of doing what entire fleets barely managed to do...

 

A single small Reaper.

[straykat]

I think ME2 was progressing towards the Reapers, but only because they/Drew K probably had something else in mind on what that progression was. 

 

As it is, yeah... it's almost in it's own world. Their best world imo. But still.

[themikefest]

Reaper strength is handled very sloppily in ME3, both numbers and the relative strength of Reapers Vs. citadel warships.

 The reapers win by numbers alone
 

In the same universe you have Nazara shrugging off overwhelming firepower during the battle of the citadel and ripping apart any ship that got too close,

That whole scene was setup for the itsy-bitsy-teenie-weenie frigate to make the kill shot. Even if there were a thousand ships firing at Sovereign, it wasn't going to take any damage. Even after its shields were disabled, it still wasn't taking any damage. Its was only done by the SR1, the most powerful ship in the galaxy for the next few seconds, along with a fighter on each side, to destroy the reaper
 

you have most of the Quarian fleet shooting at a single Reaper for barely any effect for quite some time,

Its was only 6 or seven ships firing at the destroyer. It was taken down the first time it was fired upon. At that point it appeared destroyed. After that, its gets up. Its fired on again. It didn't fall over. Why? Shepard did say its weak spot is its firing chamber. That is incorrect since the rounds that hit the reaper the first time hit before the reaper could open its blast doors to use its beam of doom. After a couple more times, when Shepard is able to be on his/her tippy-toes to kiss the thing, it falls over
 

and yet we have cutscenes that show slugging matches between fleets of Reapers and Citadel ships that surprisingly don't end as swiftly as they should by the Reapers tearing everyone apart.

If ems is below 2300, the fleets are taking a beating right away. If over 2300, ships are seen avoiding the beam of doom. That's some good psychic powers those ships have. It shows another ship fire two shots that blows off two legs of the reaper. Too bad that didn't happen when firing at Sovereign
 

And then at the end of the game suddenly a few missiles or Cain rounds are capable of doing what entire fleets barely managed to do...

The hades cannon was different from a destroyer. So it didn't have the same defenses as a capital ship or destroyer

The two missles that are seen firing at the reaper are the same one's seen in Kasumi's loyalty mission. Since it went down that easily, the one on Rannoch should've stayed down when first fired upon.

[The Twilight God]

Reaper strength is handled very sloppily in ME3, both numbers and the relative strength of Reapers Vs. citadel warships.
 
In the same universe you have Nazara shrugging off overwhelming firepower during the battle of the citadel and ripping apart any ship that got too close, you have most of the Quarian fleet shooting at a single Reaper for barely any effect for quite some time, and yet we have cutscenes that show slugging matches between fleets of Reapers and Citadel ships that surprisingly don't end as swiftly as they should by the Reapers tearing everyone apart.
 
And then at the end of the game suddenly a few missiles or Cain rounds are capable of doing what entire fleets barely managed to do...

This is how I define ME3's bad writing; as bad decisions. It just gets really dumb. But it didn't start in ME3. ME2 was a complete wash. Enjoyable as the game was it did not forward the plot at all. The entire set up following Mass Effect 1 was that we avoided the Reaper's trap and now, not only do we know of the Reapers and their intent, we are in a position to prepare for this inevitable conflict. We have the Prothean mass relay research and a shattered reaper to reverse engineer. Even though their numbers would still necessitate out of the box thinking to win, it would have gone a lot in the way of establishing how we could put up any resistance at all. The Crucible, or anything like it, should have been something that came about as a product of ME2's story.

It was all flushed down the toilet however. Ultimately in favor of a deus ex machina in the 11th hour.

[FKA_Servo]

This is how I define ME3's bad writing; as bad decisions. It just gets really dumb. But it didn't start in ME3. ME2 was a complete wash. Enjoyable as the game was it did not forward the plot at all. The entire set up following Mass Effect 1 was that we avoided the Reaper's trap and now, not only do we know of the Reapers and their intent, we are in a position to prepare for this inevitable conflict. We have the Prothean mass relay research and a shattered reaper to reverse engineer.

It was all flushed down the toilet. Ultimately in favor of a deus ex machina in the 11th hour.

 

I wish I could toss all my extra, unused likes at this.

[Seboist]

You'd think with the whole bit with the citadel controlling the relays the "good guys" would be eager to use that to their advantage to impede the reapers, but that just gets dropped after ME1. Even the Reapers don't care about using it for themselves when in control of the citadel in ME3.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

I think ME2 was progressing towards the Reapers, but only because they/Drew K probably had something else in mind on what that progression was. 

 

As it is, yeah... it's almost in it's own world. Their best world imo. But still.

 

Nah, the ME2 cast is so bloody overrated aside from Mordin. And for a game supposedly about the characters they sure seemed disconnected from each other.

 

ME2 was nothing but a playground for the writers. Wasting the entire second part of a trilogy to show of all their individual ideas they had for "cool" and "edgy" characters, forgetting to advance the story.

[Natureguy85]

This is how I define ME3's bad writing; as bad decisions. It just gets really dumb. But it didn't start in ME3. ME2 was a complete wash. Enjoyable as the game was it did not forward the plot at all. The entire set up following Mass Effect 1 was that we avoided the Reaper's trap and now, not only do we know of the Reapers and their intent, we are in a position to prepare for this inevitable conflict. We have the Prothean mass relay research and a shattered reaper to reverse engineer. Even though their numbers would still necessitate out of the box thinking to win, it would have gone a lot in the way of establishing how we could put up any resistance at all. The Crucible, or anything like it, should have been something that came about as a product of ME2's story.

It was all flushed down the toilet however. Ultimately in favor of a deus ex machina in the 11th hour.

 

Agreed. I and others have been saying this for a long time. I linked to that Shamus Young article on this. Bioware shifted the focus after the first game, and not for the better. The other problem is that they didn't even do their new direction very well. They did do a good job with the characters in ME2 though.

[Lady Artifice]

Liara looks in an archive in the time between games: that's it. You're right that it's not the first time that they've found Prothean tech, but what was the nature of that tech or those other times? The Beacons were sources of information and opened up the adventure. Shepard interacted with it at the beginning, even if it was accidental. The Cipher (what is with Bioware naming everything using C-words?) changed Shepard and, along with the vision, made him unique and special to this story. How does the Crucible do that?

 

You mentioned liking fantasy. Usually when the heroes' quest is to go get some super weapon to defeat the enemy, that weapon is steeped in lore and legend. World building goes into it. There's none of that for the Crucible.

 

 

So what? I've never claimed it was graceful narrative development, and I don't even know what the bolded has to do with discussion, at least not the one I was participating in.

 

I have no interest in defending the crucible as a plot device, just in labeling it accurately. 

[straykat]

Nah, the ME2 cast is so bloody overrated aside from Mordin. And for a game supposedly about the characters they sure seemed disconnected from each other.

 

ME2 was nothing but a playground for the writers. Wasting the entire second part of a trilogy to show of all their individual ideas they had for "cool" and "edgy" characters, forgetting to advance the story.

 

No.. 

 

Grunt is a good example of another direction they meant to go with the Krogan (another direction out of many, I mean). Until the writer left. Grunt is not merely Grunt. He's Okeer and the Male Shaman as well. All three of these characters go hand in hand, and there's an entirely different Krogan pathway because of them.

 

If it seems edgy, it's only because one of their best writers left and Patrick Weekes hijacked everything with his Mordin storyarc. And I would say the same for some other elements of ME2.

 

I generally like your posts, and I can be cynical sometimes too, but you're viewing them in the most absurd, cartoonish way possible. Like they're all teens in black trenchcoats and fedoras, merely writing "edgy" for the sake of it. Do you really believe that?

[Iakus]

No.. 

 

Grunt is a good example of another direction they meant to go with the Krogan (another direction out of many, I mean). Until the writer left. Grunt is not merely Grunt. He's Okeer and the Male Shaman as well. All three of these characters go hand in hand, and there's an entirely different Krogan pathway because of them.

 

And what does Grunt have to do with either the Collectors or the Reapers?  He was a door prize because Okeer died before we could recruit him.  We're hunting the Collectors, but Grunt knows nothing useful, and we can't even study the (Collector) tech used to make him.  Grunt, like many of the characters in ME2, is just sort of there.  Interesting in his own right, perhaps.  But not in any real way connected to the alleged story of ME2.

 

For that matter, what interactions does Grunt have with any other crew member or companion?  This is not a complaint unique to him, as most of the companions seem largely unaware of each others' existence.

 

 

 

 

I generally like your posts, and I can be cynical sometimes too, but you're viewing them in the most absurd, cartoonish way possible. Like they're all teens in black trenchcoats and fedoras, merely writing "edgy" for the sake of it. Do you really believe that?

The game started with the protagonist getting killed off.  We even get to watch him suffocate.  And ends with said protagonist battling a Reaper fetus built with the liquefied remains of human colonists..  

 

Yeah, I'd say "edgy for the sake of it" is pretty accurate.

[Natureguy85]

And what does Grunt have to do with either the Collectors or the Reapers? He was a door prize because Okeer died before we could recruit him. We're hunting the Collectors, but Grunt knows nothing useful, and we can't even study the (Collector) tech used to make him. Grunt, like many of the characters in ME2, is just sort of there. Interesting in his own right, perhaps. But not in any real way connected to the alleged story of ME2.

For that matter, what interactions does Grunt have with any other crew member or companion? This is not a complaint unique to him, as most of the companions seem largely unaware of each others' existence.

The game started with the protagonist getting killed off. We even get to watch him suffocate. And ends with said protagonist battling a Reaper fetus built with the liquefied remains of human colonists..

Yeah, I'd say "edgy for the sake of it" is pretty accurate.

Grunt was supposed to have a crew conflict with Mordin, but that was cut.

The only one edgy for it's own sake was Jack. She had a good loyalty mission and character arc though. Others were various cliche badasses and your enjoyment will probably be partly dependent on how you like the particular cliche. I like Zaeed a lot and do enjoy Grunt because he reminds me of Oghren (more than just the voice). I don't really like Thane.

[shodiswe]

Why bother, this is a new game with a new character, and to make it even more palatable they hade us play as colonists in a new galaxy that left before the ME3 ending.

 

Your decisions in the trilogy made a differen in the ME3 summary at the end of the game. Beyond that, it shouldn't matter much. How imporant is it to another character who's never meet Shepard?

 

I would prefer if this new story is a great one, if the old one would get in the way then it might be best for it to simply be removed. The ME3 ending basicly killed the game's possibility of playing any future games in the Milkyway.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

No.. 

 

Grunt is a good example of another direction they meant to go with the Krogan (another direction out of many, I mean). Until the writer left. Grunt is not merely Grunt. He's Okeer and the Male Shaman as well. All three of these characters go hand in hand, and there's an entirely different Krogan pathway because of them.

 

 

I'll just refer you to Iakus' post above.

 

 

If it seems edgy, it's only because one of their best writers left and Patrick Weekes hijacked everything with his Mordin storyarc. And I would say the same for some other elements of ME2.

 

I generally like your posts, and I can be cynical sometimes too, but you're viewing them in the most absurd, cartoonish way possible. Like they're all teens in black trenchcoats and fedoras, merely writing "edgy" for the sake of it. Do you really believe that?

 

First off, I'm kinda surprised that you generally like my posts. I always just assumed the opposite heh, but thanks! (and I mean that sincerely) 

 

Secondly, yeah, while I am exaggerating a bit for fun, I do think the writers of ME2 were just indulging their own fantasies and ideas they had. I can only imagine how the original idea for Thane  went down

 

"So I have this  awesome  idea for a character. He's this uber badass alien assasin who's been trained from birth to be an expert killer, who knows kung-fu, and spouts off religious sounding lines and he wears a leather jacket. He is also super-fast and stealthy that he can vanish even when the camera is on him."

 

"Okay, what's his role in the story?"

 

"He doesn't have one, but won't it be totally awesome to have a monk-assasin?"

 

Note that I also said "cool" alongside "edgy", obviously some characters contains more of one than the other. Jack was mostly teenage edgy with the super evil experiments and Michael Vick-esque fighting ring. Thane is another, but on the "cool" scale of it. Even the old cast was not exempt from this. Garrus went from higly competent cop-on-the-edge to space punisher and Liara from shy, nerdy archeologist to ruthless information broker. Almost every character was turned into a (edgy) badass™.

[Quarian Master Race]

 

A single small Reaper.

which was retarded, because Reaper Destroyers are supposedly no match for even a single Cruiser, let alone several (or perhaps hundreds) of them
http://masseffect.wi.../wiki/Destroyer
http://masseffect.wi...Vulnerabilities

of course, that's only one among the many ways that scene shat all over supposed lore in favour of a Rule of Cool, videogamey "ATTACK THE WEAK POINT FOR MASSIVE DAMAGE" segment.

Shepard, that Reaper, Tali, Legion and that entire Reaper base should have been rendered into vapour floating in a mushroom cloud over a crater several kilometers wide if they were bothering to follow the lore they wrote.

Oh, and the quarians would have just destroyed the livability of their own planet for the next million or so years, so congratulations on "reclaiming" your homeworld (But hey, at least the toasters would be good and dead).

[AlanC9]

I believe the technical term for Liara and Garrus is "took a level in badass."

[Seboist]

I'll just refer you to Iakus' post above.

 

 

First off, I'm kinda surprised that you generally like my posts. I always just assumed the opposite heh, but thanks! (and I mean that sincerely) 

 

Secondly, yeah, while I am exaggerating a bit for fun, I do think the writers of ME2 were just indulging their own fantasies and ideas they had. I can only imagine how the original idea for Thane  went down

 

"So I have this  awesome  idea for a character. He's this uber badass alien assasin who's been trained from birth to be an expert killer, who knows kung-fu, and spouts off religious sounding lines and he wears a leather jacket. He is also super-fast and stealthy that he can vanish even when the camera is on him."

 

"Okay, what's his role in the story?"

 

"He doesn't have one, but won't it be totally awesome to have a monk-assasin?"

 

Note that I also said "cool" alongside "edgy", obviously some characters contains more of one than the other. Jack was mostly teenage edgy with the super evil experiments and Michael Vick-esque fighting ring. Thane is another, but on the "cool" scale of it. Even the old cast was not exempt from this. Garrus went from higly competent cop-on-the-edge to space punisher and Liara from shy, nerdy archeologist to ruthless information broker. Almost every character was turned into a (edgy) badass™.

I'm sure Walters and co were high fiving themselves behind the scenes over lines like Aria's "there's only one rule on omega, don't **** with Aria" thinking they were writing some top notch material.

[In Exile]

Grunt was supposed to have a crew conflict with Mordin, but that was cut.

The only one edgy for it's own sake was Jack. She had a good loyalty mission and character arc though. Others were various cliche badasses and your enjoyment will probably be partly dependent on how you like the particular cliche. I like Zaeed a lot and do enjoy Grunt because he reminds me of Oghren (more than just the voice). I don't really like Thane.

At least they weren't a walking codex like every character not named, really, Ashley and sort-of Kaiden/Liara. 

[Killdren88]

That...is..the point of going to Andromeda...They wrote themselves into a corner...honestly if they just canonized Destroy none of this would have happened. But apparently that isn't "fair" to the other 2/3. So we get Andromeda. Where it is completely separate from the the Milky Way and the Reaper War.

[Il Divo]

At least they weren't a walking codex like every character not named, really, Ashley and sort-of Kaiden/Liara. 

 

Which is kind of funny how that turned out, in ME1's case, the walking codexes turned out to be the best characters....except Tali. 

[straykat]

I'll just refer you to Iakus' post above.

 

 

Yeah, that isn't helping, man. He's fundamentally unhappy.

 

Thane isn't just there to be a "badass". He's a damn poet. Better than L'Etoile's previous attempts at poetry (He wrote Ash too)... since it's all Thane's perspective.

[Seraphim24]

I'd really like just a genuinely charismatic character, it's a farce that nerds are unkempt basement dwellers with ragged hair and all that. Even though you guys are critical the likes of Kaidan and Ash aren't nearly as annoying as many other offerings.

 

All I want to see is them go the extra distance, have someone have the brain of a Mordin but the heart of Britney Spears.

 

It's not for lack of RL inspiration, or that it hasn't existed, it's simply that no one has really brought it to the fore. DA:I was a big step backwards in that respect, the characters were almost like edgy train to edgetown, but I feel like that was as much just a reaction on the pressure to be that way as it was evidence of any real lingering eternal hangups.

[straykat]

As for Jack, I just see female Wolverine. If you want to call it edgy, fine.. I'll accept it. I still think she's great though.

 

And both her and Zaeed's attitudes are just trying to show what it takes to be a lone human out in the Terminus.

 

And even then, she wasn't as bad as she tried to act at first. She's just ****** with you.