1042 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

I've said before in other threads, if it was a RL situation, I'd probably shoot the tube and hope the explosion killed me, because I wouldn't want to live with what I had just done.  Maybe that's why Shepard walks into the explosion?

 

But that is not fun.  It's not an enjoyable scenario.  It is, in fact, anti-fun and ruined the entire trilogy for me.  Yes, one scene can do that if it's bad enough.

 

So yeah, I resent the h*ll out of Bioware trolling me for not liking it.

Can you walk me through the actual ending? I understood it to be: shoot Catalyst, get some speech by Shepard, then some Liara time capsule thing happens. I thought the EC was so stupid when we get to the airvac scene that I just clicked abort and was done with ME3 forever, so I've never actually seen the thing. 

[straykat]

I've said before in other threads, if it was a RL situation, I'd probably shoot the tube and hope the explosion killed me, because I wouldn't want to live with what I had just done.  Maybe that's why Shepard walks into the explosion?

 

But that is not fun.  It's not an enjoyable scenario.  It is, in fact, anti-fun and ruined the entire trilogy for me.  Yes, one scene can do that if it's bad enough.

 

So yeah, I resent the h*ll out of Bioware trolling me for not liking it.

 

Well.. play with a little less EMS. No one knew what would happen at first. Just metagame now 

 

Or.. pick Refuse all you want I'm not necessarily try to convince you. Just saying it isn't any better than the others.

[Iakus]

Can you walk me through the actual ending? I understood it to be: shoot Catalyst, get some speech by Shepard, then some Liara time capsule thing happens. I thought the EC was so stupid when we get to the airvac scene that I just clicked abort and was done with ME3 forever, so I've never actually seen the thing. 

There is no speech from Shepard if you shoot the Catalyst.   

 

 

In the Refuse ending, at least Shepard got an awesome speech before standing around like a moron.

[In Exile]

There is no speech from Shepard if you shoot the Catalyst.

https://www.youtube....h?v=bApdjLFcVUk

If the Refuse ending, at least Shepard got an awesome speech before standing around like a moron.

I thought shooting the Catalyst WAS the refuse ending? Yeah, okay, fair counterpoint. I do see why it feels like trolling. Not sure I disagree.

[AlanC9]

I've said before in other threads, if it was a RL situation, I'd probably shoot the tube and hope the explosion killed me, because I wouldn't want to live with what I had just done.  Maybe that's why Shepard walks into the explosion?
 
But that is not fun.  It's not an enjoyable scenario.  It is, in fact, anti-fun and ruined the entire trilogy for me.  Yes, one scene can do that if it's bad enough.

Depends on what you consider fun, of course. For me, the point of RPGs (and some other genres) is to experience situations that I can't or won't experience IRL. Being faced with awful choices like that is part of what I play the games for.

Which brings me back to something I was going to get into upthread, actually. It strikes me that part of what happened in the ending is sort of a "return of the repressed." Bio's talked about giving us hard decisions for years. They've even advertised giving them. But they haven't delivered them; they typically haven't even tried. I think the difference between what they've been saying they're doing and what they've actually been doing took a toll on the team, and they finally snapped. "The team" because Drew K. considered going even further into awfulness with the Dark Energy plot.

Of course, even if you do think that you've been wrong about something for the entire series, changing it in the last 5 minutes of the last game probably isn't the best approach.

[AlanC9]

I thought shooting the Catalyst WAS the refuse ending? Yeah, okay, fair counterpoint. I do see why it feels like trolling. Not sure I disagree.

They're typically both referred to as the Refuse ending here. Same results except no speech, with a different trigger.

Maybe they shouldn't be, but no other name ever stuck on the "shoot the hologram" ending.

[Iakus]

Depends on what you consider fun, of course. For me, the point of RPGs (and some other genres) is to experience situations that I can't or won't experience IRL. Being faced with awful choices like that is part of what I play the games for.

Which brings me back to something I was going to get into upthread, actually. It strikes me that part of what happened in the ending is sort of a "return of the repressed." Bio's talked about giving us hard decisions for years. They've even advertised giving them. But they haven't delivered them; they typically haven't even tried. I think the difference between what they've been saying they're doing and what they've actually been doing took a toll on the team, and they finally snapped. "The team" because Drew K. considered going even further into awfulness with the Dark Energy plot.

Of course, even if you do think that you've been wrong about something for the entire series, changing it in the last 5 minutes of the last game probably isn't the best approach.

A choice between green cr*p, red cr*p, and blue cr*p isn't a "hard choice".  It's just cr*p

[In Exile]

Depends on what you consider fun, of course. For me, the point of RPGs (and some other genres) is to experience situations that I can't or won't experience IRL. Being faced with awful choices like that is part of what I play the games for.

Which brings me back to something I was going to get into upthread, actually. It strikes me that part of what happened in the ending is sort of a "return of the repressed." Bio's talked about giving us hard decisions for years. They've even advertised giving them. But they haven't delivered them; they typically haven't even tried. I think the difference between what they've been saying they're doing and what they've actually been doing took a toll on the team, and they finally snapped. "The team" because Drew K. considered going even further into awfulness with the Dark Energy plot.

Of course, even if you do think that you've been wrong about something for the entire series, changing it in the last 5 minutes of the last game probably isn't the best approach.

I don't think the issue is so much that the decision is hard - I actually think it's kind of impressive how much that ending undercut the usual power fantasy in an RPG (like Harbinger just nonchalantly nuking you out of the sky).

It totally missed the point of the series and even ME3 as a whole but credit to Bioware on that one for playing what it means to be in a fight straight for once.

[In Exile]

They're typically both referred to as the Refuse ending here. Same results except no speech, with a different trigger.

Maybe they shouldn't be, but no other name ever stuck on the "shoot the hologram" ending.

I mean, it makes sense you can't just shoot at the thing endlessly if they tried to make a living world. But clearly the players were blowing off steam so I kind of see it both ways.

[straykat]

A choice between green cr*p, red cr*p, and blue cr*p isn't a "hard choice".  It's just cr*p

 

I only associate Reaper code with crap. I mean, look at the Geth/virtual mission. 

[Xilizhra]

A choice between green cr*p, red cr*p, and blue cr*p isn't a "hard choice".  It's just cr*p

The biggest issue, I believe, is that it was improperly set up. Honestly and truly, the ending is one of my favorite parts of the game, though this is less a statement of artistic brilliance than one that ME3 consisted mostly of train wreckage. But at least, despite how boneheadedly it was done, the writers were trying to be artistic and interesting instead of just making more military shooter shlock.

[Iakus]

The biggest issue, I believe, is that it was improperly set up. Honestly and truly, the ending is one of my favorite parts of the game, though this is less a statement of artistic brilliance than one that ME3 consisted mostly of train wreckage. But at least, despite how boneheadedly it was done, the writers were trying to be artistic and interesting instead of just making more military shooter shlock.

"improperly set up" is putting it mildly.  There's a reason why the Crucible and its choices are called "space magic"

 

And no points for trying to be artistic.  Being wildly inconsistent is neither artistic nor interesting.  If you're going to make Gears of War games, be Gears of War, don't try to shoehorn in a Spec Ops: The Line "message" into it and claim it's "Art" all of a sudden.

[7twozero]

<trying to reason with forum trolls in general, who shall stay unnamed>

Just set on ignore and move on. Never wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.

[straykat]

I'm not sure Iakus is a troll. He's like... in some infinite loop or something.

 

Ironically, it reminds me of another AI in sci-fi. The Doctor in Voyager, when he was forced to choose one patient over another.. and just kept breaking down afterwards, tormented on why he chose the way he did.

[7twozero]

Woah there buddy, just some friendly advice, I'm definitely not talking about anyone specific! Because if I had been, all that hypothetical person would have to do would be to hit the report button to get my post removed and add on to my warning point tally. So you see I'm definitely not talking about any specific forum members.

On topic, while I enjoyed the trilogy in its entirety, I don't mind the break they're making from the old stories, and can't see how they could reasonably continue from where they were at anyway. I pick synthesis myself fyi, I thought it was a beautiful end to the trilogy. Definitely looking forward to the new game, can't wait to see what the do with the stories, settings, mechanics, and especially the multi player.

[Monk]

You know how it is with gamer PTSD, it just strikes randomly. Or due to a sensitive point *cough*endings*cough* is brought up. I basically consider this thread a big-list of trigger reactions from unhappy gamers.

[Spectr61]

There is no speech from Shepard if you shoot the Catalyst.

https://www.youtube....h?v=bApdjLFcVUk

In the Refuse ending, at least Shepard got an awesome speech before standing around like a moron.

This.

Achilles in Greek mythology understood immortality. It's not dying, but how one dies that paves the way.

Shepard and Liara's information via the Beacon provides the information to eventually defeat the Reapers next cycle.

And gain immortality.

Refuse = win.


Edit:

Refuse is shooting the Starbrat itself.

Not to be confused with-

Destroy is shooting the red tube, leading to the "gasp" ending. (Assuming war rating high enough)

[straykat]

This.

Achilles in Greek mythology understood immortality. It's not dying, but how one dies that paves the way.

Shepard and Liara's information via the Beacon provides the information to eventually defeat the Reapers next cycle.

And gain immortality.

Refuse = win.

 

I guess I don't want to be immortal. I want my Shepard to just sink into obscurity, like Jon Grissom. Kind of like many veterans really.

[Spectr61]

I guess I don't want to be immortal. I want my Shepard to just sink into obscurity, like Jon Grissom. Kind of like many veterans really.

I haven't thought about it, but to end with obscurity, which of the four endings?

Refuse = Immortality

Synthesis = mass murder (imo)

Control = turn yourself into starbrat?

Destroy maybe? Or Control if no one knows?

[straykat]

I haven't thought about it, but to end with obscurity, which of the four endings?

Refuse = Immortality

Synthesis = mass murder (imo)

Control = turn yourself into starbrat?

Destroy maybe? Or Control if no one knows?

 

Destroy for me.. Control reminds me of Dune's God Emperor. Maybe it's not truly Shep, but I get the feeling people can't shake off your presence. edit: Wait, you mean if no one knows. That's a good question..

[Iakus]

I'm not sure Iakus is a troll. He's like... in some infinite loop or something.

 

Ironically, it reminds me of another AI in sci-fi. The Doctor in Voyager, when he was forced to choose one patient over another.. and just kept breaking down afterwards, tormented on why he chose the way he did.

If I was a troll, I doubt I would go through all the trouble of explaining my reasoning to people.

 

Especially people who have me on ignore because they think reasoned debate is trolling 

 

At any rate, people keep dragging out the same tired (and fallacious) excuses why the anti-ending crowd disliked the endings, and I feel compelled to set the record straight, because the last thing I want is a repeat of that abomination in future games.  Repeat as needed...

[straykat]

If I was a troll, I doubt I would go through all the trouble of explaining my reasoning to people.

 

Especially people who have me on ignore because they think reasoned debate is trolling 

 

At any rate, people keep dragging out the same tired (and fallacious) excuses why the anti-ending crowd disliked the endings, and I feel compelled to set the record straight, because the last thing I want is a repeat of that abomination in future games.  Repeat as needed...

 

Don't tell me you've heard the Doctor from Voyager comparison already. I thought I was being original.

[The Dovahk]

It's a whole NEW trilogy.

So that's not to surprising to me.

[Iakus]

Don't tell me you've heard the Doctor from Voyager comparison already. I thought I was being original.

Not that comparison specifically, but yes, I have been told "get over it" a number of times.

 

Typically by people who think if you repeat a lie often enough it becomes truth ("People didn't like the ending because it made them sad" and such)

[AlanC9]

I don't think the issue is so much that the decision is hard - I actually think it's kind of impressive how much that ending undercut the usual power fantasy in an RPG (like Harbinger just nonchalantly nuking you out of the sky).

I agree that was the effect. Unlike the DA team, though, I'm not certain the ME team got there on purpose, Note that the negative consequences of Destroy were a late addition.