1042 réponses à ce sujet

[Wissenschaft 2.0]

errr, I'm confused. Why would a game that takes place in another galaxy in the future be effected by the ending of ME 3?

[straykat]

I was enraged today when I decided to buy a Ford and learned there was no option to buy a Ford in North Korea, how the hell could they!  Betrayed!

 

I heard King Jong Un has an Xbox though. Go figure.

[Xilizhra]

Well, obviously the Reapers rebuild the relay network in Control, Synthesis and Refuse. You know, it being the main ingredient in their whole galactic trap thing.

AI Shepard's dialog is pretty much the same stuff the TIM and Sovereign were spewing. It is clearly indoctrinated. If you ever read the comic with the Arca Monolith (TIM's origin) you'll know that the blue lightning is insta-husk tech. It's what gave TIM his blue eyes when a spark of it hit him and it gives Shepard those same blue synthetics before disintegrating him. Not only that, but ALL Reapers are indoctrinated themselves. Every single worthy race that fought Reapers became the thing they were fighting. Why would it be any different for Shepard? Why would the writers inform the player that the Reapers always push for Control, have a verified indoctrinated TIM literally try to convince you 5 minutes prior, have Shepard soundly shoot it down and then immediately afterwards believe in Control to such an extent that he's willing to blindly trust a Reaper to the point of killing himself. You don't find this odd?

You can ascribe to bad writing if you wish. That's cool. But it's also akin to saying dinosaurs aren't millions of years old, but God created them as is with all that carbon. Sure, that's conceivable I guess. But seeing as it doesn't fit within the scope of a coherent understandable universe it's not really a subject worthy of scientific debate. Within the realm of science it's irrelevant as it's outside the realm of scientific scrutiny. So staying within the realm of science (i.e. lore, story, etc.), Control has to be an indoctrinated ending. It literally cannot be what the kid claims. The control area itself was already there BEFORE the Crucible even docked. It's literally hardwired into the Citadel. Why would the Reapers put a device there with the sole purpose of giving up their own power? That makes no sense at all.

But I must reiterate. If Control gives you warm fuzzies and you're willing to accept it for that reason, logic be damned, that is your prerogative. Andromeda is what it is so that you're given the choice.

A coherent, understandable universe is not, in-universe, driven by narrative, so you can't use thematic arguments for in-universe reasons. And if the Catalyst is lying about Control, it has no reason to be telling the truth about Destroy, so it doesn't matter what I pick.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

errr, I'm confused. Why would a game that takes place in another galaxy in the future be effected by the ending of ME 3?

Well, some thought that the trip to Andromeda would occur after Mass Effect 3, thus affected by the endings. 

[straykat]

A coherent, understandable universe is not, in-universe, driven by narrative, so you can't use thematic arguments for in-universe reasons. And if the Catalyst is lying about Control, it has no reason to be telling the truth about Destroy, so it doesn't matter what I pick.

 

One thing you can sure of is he's lying about destroy.... just because high ems Shep lives. 

 

At least, he's lying about Shep specifically.

[Xilizhra]

One thing you can sure of is he's lying about destroy.... just because high ems Shep lives. 

 

At least, he's lying about Shep specifically.

In that case, I think it was making a mistaken speculation.

[straykat]

In that case, I think it was making a mistaken speculation.

 

Which is another good point. It's merely speculation. It's not the omniscient god that some (or the Catalyst itself) makes it out to be.

 

But I digress.

[Xilizhra]

Which is another good point. It's merely speculation. It's not the omniscient god that some (or the Catalyst itself) makes it out to be.

 

But I digress.

Well, of course. It's poorly programmed and doesn't really know what it's talking about. But I'm sure that it does know what its own functions are, and that it's telling the truth about them.

[straykat]

Well, of course. It's poorly programmed and doesn't really know what it's talking about. But I'm sure that it does know what its own functions are, and that it's telling the truth about them.

 

I think (and always thought) it's only as good as it's programmers. Worst parents EVER. It's whole premise is flawed.

 

I guess that says a lot about my opinions of AI too. I defer to the programmers themselves.

[General TSAR]

Poorly programmed? More like poorly written.

[straykat]

Oh, I should mention I had the benefit of first playing with Leviathan DLC.

[Xilizhra]

I think (and always thought) it's only as good as it's programmers. Worst parents EVER. It's whole premise is flawed.

 

I guess that says a lot about my opinions of AI too. I defer to the programmers themselves.

Well, to be fair, the premise wasn't originally flawed back when it was made, as it was assigned to deal with a constant problem.

[straykat]

Well, to be fair, the premise wasn't originally flawed back when it was made, as it was assigned to deal with a constant problem.

 

A problem it only saw through the lens of a race like Leviathan. And it never gave much a chance to see life in other ways except masters and slaves.

[DextroDNA]

People fell for this bait easily

[Natureguy85]

I think it just means Shepard will be affected. Maybe some of his synthetic bits no longer work. Who knows. I wouldn't assign any narrative meaning. The "breath" scene is just to give you a "Shepard lives" ending for getting a high enough score. EMS is just score.

 

 

 

 

 

 

People fell for this bait easily

 

 

I might be one. I didn't see this guy as a troll. Just some poor soul who doesn't speak English well and doesn't know what's going on with the series. I understand where he's coming from but he just doesn't understand the reality of where the series is at and where it's headed.

[straykat]

I think it just means Shepard will be affected. Maybe some of his synthetic bits no longer work. Who knows. I wouldn't assign any narrative meaning. The "breath" scene is just to give you a "Shepard lives" ending for getting a high enough score. EMS is just score.

 

No, it's to give me my "Shep runs off with Jack and they become Space Truckers" ending.

 

Totally doable...even without epilogues

[prosthetic soul]

Double negative leads to proof positive.....

 

Seriously, though, the story is set up so that the choices in ME3 can't have an effect.  To be honest, it's a clever way to do it since the ME3 endings were too varied to be practical. 

Stop right there criminal scum.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

hah, but then they can't make me 5 & 6, if they want to do them they need to include the endings in next ME 3 games, unless they want to say its new universe where Shep never existed, talking about multiverse, they cant avoid it forever 

 

You can have Shepard be in suspended animation in a secret chamber on an Ark ship maybe with Cerberus (or a group like them) and reveal that it's another clone, with only memory fragments so any references to events, various love interests, and the various squad mates of the previous games would be vague. I would not be surprised if BioWare pulls this as a post-credit sting at the end of ME:A, actually I might be surprised if they actually didn't pull a stunt like that. 

 

I just hope they don't do is a Spider-Man: Clone Saga crappy type switch where the clone is revealed to be the "real" Shepard and what we thought was the real Shepard in ME2 and ME3 was the clone and then switch them again...and ugh.  

[AlanC9]

I'll wager the price of the first ME:A DLC that there's no chance in hell that happens.

[rossler]

I don't know why people think their choices don't matter. 

[straykat]

I don't know why people think their choices don't matter. 

 

They used to... kind of. Before imports crept into Bioware's RPGs.

[Natureguy85]

 

You can have Shepard be in suspended animation in a secret chamber on an Ark ship maybe with Cerberus (or a group like them) and reveal that it's another clone, with only memory fragments so any references to events, various love interests, and the various squad mates of the previous games would be vague. I would not be surprised if BioWare pulls this as a post-credit sting at the end of ME:A, actually I might be surprised if they actually didn't pull a stunt like that. 

 

I just hope they don't do is a Spider-Man: Clone Saga crappy type switch where the clone is revealed to be the "real" Shepard and what we thought was the real Shepard in ME2 and ME3 was the clone and then switch them again...and ugh.  

 

The original Shepard and Conrad Verner were both clones of General Williams. One was awesome and the other one was a loser. They were separated to exaggerate the qualities of each.

[The Twilight God]

Then why not just believe your deception theory and handwave away any facts you don't like? Or sign on with MEHEM if that's how you're rolling these days.

You're not making any sense. I ascribe to Deception Theory because of the facts. If I ignored the facts, Deception Theory wouldn't work. You have to understand that Deception Theory is based on the game as Bioware released it. It only pertains to the discussion of the default game.

You can take MEHEM as your canon ending (as I do), while still acknowledging that the game Bioware released has trainwreck endings. By your logic a person can't chose Synthesis and at the same time acknowledge Refuse exists.

[The Twilight God]

How far do some people expect choices to be carried over? To the tenth instalment?

Exactly.

And is your avatar Liara Targaryen?

[AlanC9]

You're not making any sense. I ascribe to Deception Theory because of the facts. If I ignored the facts, Deception Theory wouldn't work. You have to understand that Deception Theory is based on the game as Bioware released it.

Oh, I understand that part fine. I believe your conception of those facts to be just wrong, but KaiserShep handled that upthread. The part I'm confused about is that I always thought that DT made the game acceptable to you. I take it that this theory doesn't actually deliver an enjoyable experience to you? This would be another contrast between DT and the various ITs.

By your logic a person can't chose Synthesis and at the same time acknowledge Refuse exists.

I have no idea what you mean by this.