935 réponses à ce sujet

[Killroy]

See, when I got to the Storm Coast I had reactions similar to some of the companions.  I was blown away by the scope with the mountains to one side and the sea in front.  But that was nothing to when I came upon the massive dwarven statues that just made me stop in my tracks in awe.   The effects of that region reminded me of the first time seeing the white cliffs of Dover in England's typical rainy weather or the absolute crushing weight of history standing below the columns of the Coliseum in Rome.  That was the moment the game completely sucked me in because it felt real. 

 

I'm not so easily impressed. I don't have such exaggerated reactions to video game visuals. 

[Killroy]

What chasm is this? In the Hinterlands?

 

I was gonna say that dwarven smuggler area was an OK dungeon..definitely worth doing for the loot at least. I don't remember a chasm.

 

That was the chasm. It's open to the sky above so it's not really a cave.

[Kabraxal]

It could be that I just don't care about dwarves. Or elven ruins. Or elven gods. Not right now. There's a time and place for everything. One of my main complaints of the game is it didn't focus on the mage/temp war or politics enough. Corypheus got rid of the things I cared to see play out. Now it's the big Epic story that requires everyone uniting... and me traipsing about empty areas I don't care about, reading codexes, acting like some heavily armored archaeologist.

 

If you want me to get immersed in the world, they could have just continued where I left off with DA2/Asunder. And offered a lot more intrigue and dialogue heavy sequences.. and had much of it done in cities rather than the wilderness. The webgame (Last Court) was more interesting than what I got out of DAI. Seriously. Fundamentally, it's a better story to me.

 

I actually like that mage/Templar war was used by the enemy and the actual conflict that magic presents still exists.  But then, I was one who was drawn more to the mythological/magical Origins/Inquisition themes over the political themes presented in the vanilla version of DA2.  The best parts of DA2 were not the politics or the mage/Templar rising conflict, but the sudden appearance of red lyrium, the deeper look at demons and magic provided by certain side quests, and the conflict between the Qun and everything else. Then the DLC came out, further adding to the ever growing threat that will be the Qun and then revealed that the magisters actually did enter the fade as the Chant describes, but it wasn't necessarily the exact same story.  Those interested me far more than the Mage/Templar conflict as well. 

 

And Inquisition not only took those threads and wove them throughout the game, but started taking older weaves and integrating and expanding on them in terms of the elves, fade, and even small hints on the darkspawn.  I didn't get into Dragon Age for the power struggles of nobles or the conflict that could arise from Mages/Templars, but for the deep mythology surrounding the fade, magic, darkspawn, and the varying cultures and how they are affected by these things.  Inquisition took that and then added to it, especially in regards to pushing harder on the fade.  Then its DLC adds more on spirits, reveals the Titans, and then gives us more information on a world before the veil. 

 

TLDR version: Was not all that intrigued by the Mage/Templar conflict nor the politics.  The main draw for me in Dragon Age has always been its different take on magic, the mythology of the darkspawn, the fade, and the cultural history and interaction.  Inquisition absolutely excelled in growing the world in most of those facets, while even hinting at something even deeper in terms of the darkspawn. 

[straykat]

I was glad that the red lyrium was mostly skipped through the bulk of DA2. The game itself, otherwise, is kind of rogue-ish and urban (even if you don't play a rogue). And I liked siding with people like the city elves..but to me, that's more about class conflicts. Not ancient magic. And then the clash with the Arishok, over who's going to be a better protector of the city (along with protecting forgotten people, like the elves). That is DA2 to me. Not the idol. The game goes downhill for me once the idol comes back.

[Il Divo]

 

And that's what ME1 is, following breadcrumbs. 

 

I'm still not clear on this "most obvious breadcrumb trail" thing.  It seems to be based on the assumption that SOvereign has a magical diagnostic tool that can tell exactly what the Protheans sabotaged.

 

Not impossible, given the goofy space magic the ME trilogy was full of, I suppose.

 

 

 

 

We're starting with the wrong assumption: who said the Protheans sabotaged the Citadel? Why would that even be Sovereign's first thought when the Keepers don't respond? When my computer breaks down, I don't assume the long dead Romans are responsible.

 

Here's what we're told about the Citadel trap: Sovereign signals the Keepers, and the Keepers activate the Citadel. That's exactly what Cyonan points out: if someone like Chorban can imagine a device to check the Keepers for some signal that he's not even explicitly searching for, then Sovereign's default action, who actually knows about the Keepers and their purpose, would involve having Saren either examining the Keepers or the Citadel itself, which would clearly indicate that someone messed with the signal. Basic solutions to solve the problem, before he starts pursuing conspiracy theories. 

 

 

Please note, not saying ME1's story is anywhere near the equivalent of Planesape: Torment's.  Just saying that ME1's writing, while it has some nonsensical parts, doesn't rise to the brain-damaging levels of ME3, and in fact, has some aspects that in another game would be praised. 

 

 

I'd argue this is misrepresenting the example. Planescape works because the protagonist isn't a fool, just suffering from Amnesia. Mass Effect 1 fails to work because Sovereign/Saren aren't meant to be viewed as idiots, but still manage to avoid basic aspects of trouble-shooting. 

 

It's basically attaching Breaking Bad's ending to Finding Nemo and saying that it would be praised in another game. A story ultimately isn't a lego-set where we just mix and match different parts and say it's just as good. 

[Kabraxal]

I was glad that the red lyrium was mostly skipped through the bulk of DA2. The game itself, otherwise, is kind of rogue-ish and urban (even if you don't play a rogue). And I liked siding with people like the city elves..but to me, that's more about class conflicts. Not ancient magic. And then the clash with the Arishok, over who's going to be a better protector of the city (along with protecting forgotten people, like the elves). That is DA2 to me. Not the idol. The game goes downhill for me once the idol comes back.

 

See, I think the red lyrium needed to be built upon so when the **** hit the fan in Act 3, it made sense.  Most of the first two acts seemed to be teasing the Qunari as the main conflict, but then they are suddenly dealt with.  The introduction of red lyrium and a better build would have done wonders for what was a mess of an Act 3.  Asunder did a better job of showcasing why the mages would rebel... DA2 the eventual choice by Anders never made sense and the resulting reactions were even more mind boggling. 

 

Now that we know about red lyrium, Act 3 makes much more sense.  But the mage/Templar conflict was very very poor in DA2 to the point I really was not drawn into it.  DA2 suffered from not knowing what it was.  Or at least that is how I look at it.  Both Origins and Inquisition have a clear sense of purpose.

[straykat]

See, I think the red lyrium needed to be built upon so when the **** hit the fan in Act 3, it made sense.  Most of the first two acts seemed to be teasing the Qunari as the main conflict, but then they are suddenly dealt with.  The introduction of red lyrium and a better build would have done wonders for what was a mess of an Act 3.  Asunder did a better job of showcasing why the mages would rebel... DA2 the eventual choice by Anders never made sense and the resulting reactions were even more mind boggling. 

 

Now that we know about red lyrium, Act 3 makes much more sense.  But the mage/Templar conflict was very very poor in DA2 to the point I really was not drawn into it.  DA2 suffered from not knowing what it was.  Or at least that is how I look at it.  Both Origins and Inquisition have a clear sense of purpose.

 

It did.. and it was necessary for your status through act 2 (at least the Expedition was).. I just think the tone changed.. that's all. It has to be done -- just like Anders' behavior had to be done. It's just that I enjoyed everything else the most.

 

I'm not all that keen on the "Remnants" in this new game either. To me, Mass Effect 1-3 would have been better off with politics too... but that's done with. Now I'd just wish they wouldn't repeat the same formula.

[Kabraxal]

It did.. and it was necessary for your status through act 2 (at least the Expedition was).. I just think the tone changed.. that's all. It has to be done -- just like Anders' behavior had to be done. It's just that I enjoyed everything else the most.

 

I'm not all that keen on the "Remnants" in this new game either. To me, Mass Effect 1-3 would have been better off with politics too... but that's done with. Now I'd just wish they wouldn't repeat the same formula.

 

I think the "politics" around being the one trying to find a colony in what could be inhabited territory might be very interesting if handled as deftly as faith was in Inquisition.  Especially if there are groups that are open to the newbies and you can play a real bastard and stab them in the back by hording materials, stealing trade, etc.  Politics within roleplaying!

 

But generally, I hope the remnants are a little more than what they sound like so far.  Though, as a trigger for something greater it could work.

[Akka le Vil]

There isn't an open world game out there that has better design than Inquisition to me.

 

Please tell me you never played New Vegas or Wild Hunt.
 

[Kabraxal]

Please tell me you never played New Vegas or Wild Hunt.
 

 

I'd put New Vegas on the same tier.  But Wild Hunt never grew from the medieval clichés and cut/paste villages or points of interest to me.  Skellige was the closest TW3 came to actually having a sense of unique realism in its design.  The actual integration of history and culture into the design was generally poor in TW3. 

[straykat]

I'd put New Vegas way above, even before I stepped in the world. Since the character creation is great. 

[AlanC9]

Here's what we're told about the Citadel trap: Sovereign signals the Keepers, and the Keepers activate the Citadel.

It's a little wackier than that.

Vigil: The keepers are controlled by the Citadel. Before each invasion, a signal is sent through the station compelling the keepers to open the Citadel Relay. After decades of feverish study, the scientists found a way to alter this signal. Using the Conduit, they gained access to the station and made the modifications. This time, when Sovereign sent the signal to the Citadel, the keepers ignored it.

So somehow the scientists intercepted the signal between Sovereign and the keepers. I guess this means that there was some sort of retransmitter receiving Sovereign's signal and translating it into a form the keepers could understand. Why that gadget wasn't just plugged directly into the Citadel relay is one of those things we shouldn't bother thinking about.

Your point still stands. There are three possible failure points here; retransmitter, keepers, and relay, all of which are on the Citadel, and the keeper part is easily accessible.

[Petiertje]

This is something i've noticed yet I don't necessarily know why.

 

The Mass Effect trilogy has been one of the more consistent trilogies in terms of quality (outside of ME3s hiccups) around in recent years yet for some reason the fanbase seems to have almost zero hope for Andromeda.

 

Franchises like Dark Souls, Final Fantasy, Witcher, Deus Ex still manage to conjure up hype yet they are way less consistent than the Mass Effect trilogy, what gives?

Is it modern Bioware or the game series itself? I would understand fears with Modern Bioware but not the game series itself, Mass Effect 1, 2 and 3 are all legitimately fantastic games.

I think the majority of the people on this forum are only interested in the next 'barber simulator' or whatever those 'make me pretty games' are called :-) that's probably why you don't see much enthusiasm :-)

Besides, there isn't a lot of info confirmed or known at the moment. I'm exited about the game, but am not thinking about it daily. That will come when it's 2 day's before release and the pre-load starts ;-)

[Il Divo]

It's a little wackier than that.

Vigil: The keepers are controlled by the Citadel. Before each invasion, a signal is sent through the station compelling the keepers to open the Citadel Relay. After decades of feverish study, the scientists found a way to alter this signal. Using the Conduit, they gained access to the station and made the modifications. This time, when Sovereign sent the signal to the Citadel, the keepers ignored it.

So somehow the scientists intercepted the signal between Sovereign and the keepers. I guess this means that there was some sort of retransmitter receiving Sovereign's signal and translating it into a form the keepers could understand. Why that gadget wasn't just plugged directly into the Citadel relay is one of those things we shouldn't bother thinking about.

Your point still stands. There are three possible failure points here; retransmitter, keepers, and relay, all of which are on the Citadel, and the keeper part is easily accessible.

 

Good point - it's been a while since I listened to Vigil.

 

One thing I was thinking about too - even the retransmitter and the relay might not be as inaccessible as they first look. The ME1 codex regarding the Keepers describes them as having a far deeper knowledge and access than any of the Council races. I don't think it would be a stretch to say that Sovereign could have gotten Saren some kind of inner access to the "unknown" areas of the Citadel. 

[fdrty]

Please tell me you never played New Vegas or Wild Hunt.
 

 

If you're talking open world, then GTA is king.

 

New Vegas suffers from being a mediocre FPS, which becomes way too tiresome in the 40 hours or so that you play it for.

 

The Witcher has one of the most tedious combat systems I've seen. It's like playing Batman: Arkham Asylum but less responsive, less options, less mobility, and no real difference between fights early in the game, and later in the game, other than you do a bit more damage and your enemies are tougher. There's no progression in Geralt's combat skills to match the progression in the narrative. I got bored of the Witcher 2 long before I finished it, and I just can't get into Wild Hunt.

 

At least in Inquisition much of the open world stuff is skippable, and at least the story, centred around gradually building the Inquisition's forces, matches the exploration and side-quest-iness of the gameplay. And, it was a response to criticism of DA2 (though they went overboard).

 

One of the most important aspects of an open world game is the ability to offer a consistently interesting, yet varied moment-to-moment gameplay. There's no point in going from place to place if the gameplay is the same everywhere. This is why I get bored of the Witcher: almost all of what you encounter in the world outside settlements is enemies, and you can't interact with them in novel ways because of how limited the combat is. GTA, however, does this amazingly with its mix of driving, shooting, and all the other things the game asks you to do.

 

Open world and RPG don't really mix well, because the openness of the world destroys the pacing of the narrative. So you get ridiculous dissonance like Fallout 4, where a narrative of great urgency (your son has been kidnapped) is completely undercut by a game design which encourages vacillation. But GTA was really meant to be like the protagonist's lives - you'lll switch to them and see Michael on a bench somewhere, or Trevor walking down the street - that level of naturalism in the storytelling stops it feeling like the exploration interrupts the story, because the story is interrupted by the characters living their lives.

 

GTA gets around this because its world is so minutely detailed that exploring it for the sake of exploring it, not for loot or challenges, is genuinely interesting and fun. If there was no loot in Fallout, nobody would bother exploring. If a game has to use material rewards to encourage you to explore its world, then it shouldn't be an open world. Unless you're Dark Souls. Then you can do what you want.

[Lebanese Dude]

3 reasons:

 

 

Holy **** it's been years.

[AlanC9]

Does that graphic pre-date Choose Wisely being taken over by that wacky IT faction?

[Shepard_Commander]

This is something i've noticed yet I don't necessarily know why.

 

The Mass Effect trilogy has been one of the more consistent trilogies in terms of quality (outside of ME3s hiccups) around in recent years yet for some reason the fanbase seems to have almost zero hope for Andromeda.

 

Franchises like Dark Souls, Final Fantasy, Witcher, Deus Ex still manage to conjure up hype yet they are way less consistent than the Mass Effect trilogy, what gives?

Is it modern Bioware or the game series itself? I would understand fears with Modern Bioware but not the game series itself, Mass Effect 1, 2 and 3 are all legitimately fantastic games.

The reason WHY i have so much little faith in ME: A is that i am still shocked by Dragon Age Inquisition and there horrible Characters, the lacking Story and the bullshit boring environment. I know i know .. different Dev. Teams but be honest the doubts are entitled. When i saw the Trailer with the Asari i was reminded at Sara from DA: Inquisition and Vivien ... and .. oh god .. those Companions where all horrible -.-

What i wanna say: I have my doubts with there Characters.. there environment and Story .. i dont see any sign that i might be wrong..

[In Exile]

It's a little wackier than that.

Vigil: The keepers are controlled by the Citadel. Before each invasion, a signal is sent through the station compelling the keepers to open the Citadel Relay. After decades of feverish study, the scientists found a way to alter this signal. Using the Conduit, they gained access to the station and made the modifications. This time, when Sovereign sent the signal to the Citadel, the keepers ignored it.

So somehow the scientists intercepted the signal between Sovereign and the keepers. I guess this means that there was some sort of retransmitter receiving Sovereign's signal and translating it into a form the keepers could understand. Why that gadget wasn't just plugged directly into the Citadel relay is one of those things we shouldn't bother thinking about.

Your point still stands. There are three possible failure points here; retransmitter, keepers, and relay, all of which are on the Citadel, and the keeper part is easily accessible.

It gets stupider. The plan at the endgame isn't even for Saren to press the Reaper summoning button himself. It's to hand over control to Sovereign to do it. So there is remote access - it's just somehow disabled. If you want to be charitable you can say that this is really what the Protheans disabled, but this is a plot hole.

And the problem isn't solved if the Keepers are written out. Because there's no reason why Saren can't just park Sovereign at the Citadel anyway. Hell, he could invite the Council on board and have Sovereign indoctrinate them.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

We don't need to know, because we know that the Reapers do on account of them having designed the whole system. If we know that Sovereign knows how to open the Relay we have to question why he didn't just open with that.

If we assume they did actually manage to find something on Ilos to tell them what happened and their thinking was "well we're too exposed now" why didn't they just go to plan B the moment Saren lost spectre status? He was already exposed at that point.

The point is that Chorban was able to figure out the general idea as to what the Keepers were for by using a basic medical scanner he adapted to work on the Keepers. We know that Reaper tech is far more advanced and they have far greater knowledge of the Keepers and the Citadel than any other beings. Even if they don't possess a scanner to check them, it should have been trivial to make one with that knowledge and tech level that Saren could use.

The idea that the Reapers understand their own systems so little that they actually needed the Prothean notes to figure out what's wrong with them already suggests an even higher level of incompetence on their behalf than I've been saying they have.

I recall Vigil said the keepers had evolved to only listen to the citadel so the prothean scientists prevented the citadel from sending the signal.

[wyrdx]

YOU DARE EXPRESS DISSATISFACTION WITH THE CHOICES WE WERE SO KIND TO GIVE YOU!?

SO BE IT!!!!
 
Now reload and pick a color!

I was satisfied with the choices but not the way they were presented.

Partly, I played through single player again to see if my perspective changed on the game after a few years. After playing again, I was inspired to buy Leviathan as I'd heard it expanded on lore related to the choices. So, you are right I reloaded. And I'm glad I did.
Control is the way to go.

[Gwydden]

I'd put New Vegas on the same tier.  But Wild Hunt never grew from the medieval clichés and cut/paste villages or points of interest to me.  Skellige was the closest TW3 came to actually having a sense of unique realism in its design.  The actual integration of history and culture into the design was generally poor in TW3. 

I must say, and I do so in the kindest way possible, that reading your latest posts in this thread makes me feel like I'm in bizarro world or like one of us (don't know which one) is bound to be an alien of some kind 

 

I can't for the life of me fathom anyone finding the DAI open world fun, much less exceptional, and I think the series is far more cliche than you give it credit for, as I've said before. It's just like hearing someone passionately talk about the myriad benefits of an atmosphere made exclusively of carbon dioxide.

[Killroy]

Holy **** it's been years.

 

That makes the ending less terrible? Or did you just forget what the title of the thread is?

[This is the End My Friend]

True, the bigger issue was the copy and pasted installations on those worlds.

 

I understand this criticism on a game design level, and maybe its because I've worked in construction but it makes perfect sense to me that the buildings would all look the same. 

[Unata]

As I've said before I'm totally hyped about ME:A, good, eh, or otherwise, Bioware has been my one of my favorite game developers ever since Baldur's Gate and will probably be so until they fade away or I do.

 

This isn't to say they've done some that I don't care for (JE, Shattered Steel), but they've always had a decent story behind a lot of their games and not just a point, shoot, kill genre.

 

The only thing I've seen them do overly wrong was the ME3 ending, tried to get into peoples head to much, over thinking the endings and being to vague about what they wanted to impart to to players, other then that their games are always on my check list for upcoming titles.

 

The simple fact that people still come here to read and post shows their interest in what's happening with ME and Bioware, hope abounds!