935 réponses à ce sujet

[Kabraxal]

Yes they do, in the end those opinions are what differentiates a successful game from a bad one.

 

Your individual taste and preferences are irrelevant to the bigger picture.

 

Some games get to go to Valhalla, all shiny and chrome, while other games simply languish in their mediocrity...

 

The only objective measure is game sales.... and that isn't indicative of quality either.  It just means something sold well.

 

Sorry, but you are just wrong.  Subjective opinions do not denote objective quality.  This isn't gamefaqs where that poor logic is so readily screamed and accepted. 

[Laughing_Man]

Sorry, but you are just wrong. Subjective opinions do not denote objective quality.

 

Funny how appropriate this is for your original rants about the subject.

[TheRevanchist]

 

Sorry, but you are just wrong.  Subjective opinions do not denote objective quality.  This isn't gamefaqs where that poor logic is so readily screamed and accepted.

 

 

Ah, just smugly quoting what they said as your entire counter, how articulate of you.  

[Laughing_Man]

Ah, just smugly quoting what they said as your entire counter, how articulate of you.  

 

Great right? But I even added something.

[straykat]

With as much fantasy as I've read, it's nice to see a franchise that is a mix of high and dark fantasy that isn't afraid to actually tackle religion, faith, and politics and not ham-fistedly kick and scream about how horrible it all is. As I've said before, the only other franchise in gaming or books for fantasy that I've come across that offers the similar kind of depth of themes is Kushiel's legacy.  It gets dark, but it isn't afraid to have fun or let concepts have a more optimistic tinge than a lot of dark fantasy.  Maybe Inquisition has some clichés, but they are a mix of dark and high fantasy so the interplay gives it a better flavour than high fantasy's airy, bright world of little consequence and dark fantasy's grimy "everything sucks!" cynicism (to outright nihilism). 

 

I used to think that, until DAI. The fact that they think you could just swoop in and reform politics, war, and religion in this fashion tells how me how immature they are. It's just high fantasy period. And the worst kind.

[Kabraxal]

I would like to point out that:

1. People can like Bioware and still think they're not that great.
2. People can like some older Bioware games, dislike some more recent Bioware games, and hope their future games will be more to their taste.
3. People can bring up TW as part of constructive criticism. That some just want to troll doesn't remove merit from others.
4. People will ****** about stuff they dislike and praise stuff they like, more often than not. Malicious intent is not required.
5. Everything should be open to criticism: The Witcher, Dragon Age, Mass Effect, anything. Even in their own boards; especially in their own boards.

 

I'd rather not stray, so I'll stick with Inquisition.

• The heavy emphasis on companions and banter: I haven't drawn up the numbers, but if this is not the Bioware game where the proportion of the time you spend interacting with companions respective to the entire game is the smallest, it certainly feels like it.
• The war table: if the war table made you feel like a leader, having to do menial labor emphatically did not. In that context, all the war table did was send your advisers to do all the actual leadership work while you were picking flowers and finding druffalos in the countryside, like leaders are known to do.
• The judgments: minuscule part of the game.
• Finding mosaic pieces and astrariums: this is fun or interesting how? It's basically "there's that, go fetch!" at its most basic.
• Hidden ruins and easter eggs: that's not doing anything; that's looking at stuff, or if you prefer, looking for stuff. I expect something slightly more exciting from my RPGs than wandering about for pretty things to look out. Where is the choice and consequence? Where is the roleplaying? Where is the character interaction? Where is the decent plot and the thematic subtext? They seem to have gone the way of the griffin in this game.
• Fighting dragons: don't even get me started on the combat in this game.
• Customizing Skyhold: and we're back to "I expect more exciting and interesting things from my RPGs than feng shui." Not to mention Skyhold irritates me to no end, between the weird design, the green flowering trees in the middle of a mountain range, the lack of anything particularly interesting to do beyond talking to companions and those... godawful... pajamas.

Obviously we have wildly different notions of what is enjoyable. I'm not trying to convince you DAI isn't, because it's clear you got a kick out of it and nothing I say it's going to change that. I'm glad someone liked it, at least. But I'm trying to illustrate why some of us consider DAI to be a horrendous taint upon this earth and would see a repeat of it with slightly less horror than the awakening of the great Cthulhu. Ia, ia!

 

See, we just disagree wildly on all that.  Where you were bored or displeased with Inquisition, I was having fun that very few games have matched.  I mean, I just finally did a War Table mission with regards to judging the dead duchess and I got a kick out of Leliana's reply once you chose her method and it completes.  I got more enjoyment of that little moment than I get out of some games. 

And that is just one of many from the war table, let alone the rest of the amazing content in Inquisition. 

 

And it is quite clear what I find the horrendous taint on the gaming world and think we could do with less of it... but luckily, I can shrug and let people have more of that.  I just wish people would stop trying to change Bioware games into CDPR games.  That would be a travesty. 

 

[Laughing_Man]

I used to think that, until DAI. The fact that they think you could just swoop in and reform politics, war, and religion in this fashion tells how me how immature they are. It's just high fantasy period. And the worst kind.

 

The base DA lore is not bad really (even if not nearly as original as some think it is), it's more DA:I I think.

[TheRevanchist]

I used to think that, until DAI. The fact that they think you could just swoop in and reform politics, war, and religion in this fashion tells how me how immature they are. It's just high fantasy period. And the worst kind.

 

I could argue an entire world full of super powerful beings being stricken by terror over a piece of jewelry is ridiculous. I see nothing wrong with ridiculous things happening in a fantasy. Plenty of ridiculous nonsense happens in Fantasies all the time, but are overlooked for various reasons.   

[straykat]

I could argue an entire world full of super powerful beings being stricken by terror over a piece of jewelry is ridiculous. I see nothing wrong with ridiculous things happening in a fantasy. Plenty of ridiculous nonsense happens in Fantasies all the time, but are overlooked for various reasons.   

 

Plenty of ridiculous things happen in high fantasy.

 

I tend to hate it. I'm not even that big of a fan of LotR. It's got it's moments, but...

[Laughing_Man]

I could argue an entire world full of super powerful beings being stricken by terror over a piece of jewelry is ridiculous. I see nothing wrong with ridiculous things happening in a fantasy. Plenty of ridiculous nonsense happens in Fantasies all the time, but are overlooked for various reasons.   

 

What matters in the end is how you pull it off. DA:I wasn't terrible mind you, but to me it feels like a missed opportunity more than anything else.

[Kabraxal]

I used to think that, until DAI. The fact that they think you could just swoop in and reform politics, war, and religion in this fashion tells how me how immature they are. It's just high fantasy period. And the worst kind.

 

Reform politics?  Huh, last I checked you made a choice of who led at the time, which if you "played the game poorly" may not actually end up going how you want,  and yet you actually still reformed jack **** since the game remains the game.  Not sure you understand what reforming is in this case because nothing in Orlais is actually reformed by the Inquisition. 

 

Reform war..... okay, did we play the same game?  Because that makes absolutely no sense in any way I can possibly combine the meanings of those words.

 

The only one we have any real power in reformation is in religion, and that is only through backing a choice of candidate... who is actually chosen not just because you say so, but based on a system affected by your choices in other situations.  And it can lead to no reform, slight reform, or massive reform with rifts and conflicts abound that will carry over through the franchise.  Yeah, that is swooping in and reforming with a wave of the hand apparently. 

 

None of that is typical high fantasy and the attempt to claim it so is actually quite ludicrous. 

 

And that isn't even tackling the real themes this game deals.  What makes this actually mature is how it presents that religion (both the negatives and the positives), faith, the political situations, and decides not to scream in your face with pithy one liners the "truth" but let you come to your own conclusions.  The typical High fantasy would prefer to avoid politics and religion in general and the typical dark fantasy revels in the most juvenile strawman you can imagine of those concepts. 

[In Exile]

I used to think that, until DAI. The fact that they think you could just swoop in and reform politics, war, and religion in this fashion tells how me how immature they are. It's just high fantasy period. And the worst kind.

 

Why? You do all of that in DA:O. Except for the degree of religious upheaval. And even TW3 has you doing the same. Again, except for religion, since that's not per se relevant. But then TW3 really abandoned the grit of the first two games, even if it is still a gritty setting. But the world is no longer as much of a crapsack world, and even TW2's Iorveth path moved away from that one. 

[TheRevanchist]

What matters in the end is how you pull it off. DA:I wasn't terrible mind you, but to me it feels like a missed opportunity more than anything else.

 

Of course it could have been better, anything can always be better. FF7 could have been better. Baulder's Gate could have been better, TW3 could have been better, the original Deus Ex could have been better, etc. Saying a game made mistakes is like arguing water is wet. Does DAI lack mini games? yes. Does DAI lack side quests? I would argue no, not really. They are simply presented differently. As an Example TW3 for the most part, does the same exact type of quests, the game simply dresses them up better by having you talk take a mission off of a board, ride to the NPC in question, have them give you some token dialogue, and then go to the Fetch Quest. It's the same content, just done up differently. 

[straykat]

Reform politics?  Huh, last I checked you made a choice of who led at the time, which if you "played the game poorly" may not actually end up going how you want,  and yet you actually still reformed jack **** since the game remains the game.  Not sure you understand what reforming is in this case because nothing in Orlais is actually reformed by the Inquisition. 

 

 

I heard something like that the other day about the DLC. I don't know the details. 

 

I supposed I would know more if I spent more money.

[Kabraxal]

I heard something like that the other day about the DLC. I don't know the details. 

 

I supposed I would know more if I spent more money.

 

In Trespasser, you are actually at the mercy of politics and have little recourse or power in the direct face of the political movement seeking to shackle or disband the Inquisition. It's pretty much the opposite of swooping in and reforming anything since it is outside pressure forcing the Inquisition into a tough position.   

[straykat]

Why? You do all of that in DA:O. Except for the degree of religious upheaval. And even TW3 has you doing the same. Again, except for religion, since that's not per se relevant. But then TW3 really abandoned the grit of the first two games, even if it is still a gritty setting. But the world is no longer as much of a crapsack world, and even TW2's Iorveth path moved away from that one. 

 

There's no cult of personality or an individual in DAO at least. Just the symbolism of the Wardens (for better or worse). And I see the Warden as a guilt ridden character most of the time (depending on origin). Everything they do is out of redemption, rather than heroism or being "chosen". I don't like it in general though. And everything I willingly tolerated once has fallen apart since DAI. It's the most "pure" presentation of this formula and now I can't bear any of it. 

[TheRevanchist]

I heard something like that the other day about the DLC. I don't know the details. 

 

I supposed I would know more if I spent more money.

 

Yes, Trespasser basically takes the entire idea of "The Inquisition can do literally anything" and smacks it down, hard. Fereldan and Orlais actually come together to basically tell you "look, your jobs done." Orlais wants to control you, and Fereldan wants you disbanded. 

[straykat]

You couldn't pay ME to play it at this point.

[Dobbysaurus]

I heard stories about people getting that old lady merchant at Cassardis, Fournival's daughter, and Asalam. Me, somehow I romanced Quina even though i locked in Mercedes. 

 

I saw some of those videos on youtube. Just thinking about them makes me laugh. Luckily I got who I wanted, Julien  

[Gwydden]

And it is quite clear what I find the horrendous taint on the gaming world and think we could do with less of it... but luckily, I can shrug and let people have more of that.  I just wish people would stop trying to change Bioware games into CDPR games.  That would be a travesty. 

Oh, but I don't want Bioware to go all CDPR. See, Skyrim sold very well and it's still got a pretty loyal fanbase. I tried the game, got to the first town (Whiterun, I think it was called), did some quests, got bored and dropped it, telling myself I might try it again some time. That was years ago and I still haven't. And yet you don't see me going to the Bethesda board (do they even exist?) to rant about how I hated the game and how Bethesda should make more games like X and Y. Same with DotA 2, a game my brother tried to get me into but which bored me to tears. I kind of like Heroes of the Storm, though, but I'm not in the DotA 2 forums, complaining that the game sucks and should be more like HotS.

 

No, the reason I ****** about DAI is because I actually care that the game sucks. I thoroughly enjoyed DAO and hoped for a sequel that I would like about as much. DA2 wasn't bad, but it was a disappointment and not up to par. DAI, however, was a huge letdown. It's the first Bioware game that I've disliked, because it just bored me. I disliked it so much that right after I beat Corypheus I quit the game, all upset. I had read there was an epilogue sequence a la DAO, and that was one of the things that kept me going through the grind, but after that lame as all hell battle, following a lame as all hell game... well, I just didn't care anymore. Which is not what I've come to expect from Bioware games.

 

Yeah, I think CDPR beats Bioware in pretty much every category, but there's no need to reduce it to a competition. I still enjoy Bioware games for the most part, and whatever the case there just aren't that many AAA developers focusing on RPGs for me to be too picky (especially since I already don't like Bethesda games). So I don't want Bioware to imitate anyone; I just want them to keep making games that I like, as they have done before.

 

And I see no reason why it has to be an and/or case. I mean, we both enjoyed KoA even though it wasn't that great. Some people are bound to be disappointed with MEA no matter what, but there's no reason why Bioware has to cater to either the people who loved DAI or the people who hated it and rule out compromise.

[Kabraxal]

Oh, but I don't want Bioware to go all CDPR. See, Skyrim sold very well and it's still got a pretty loyal fanbase. I tried the game, got to the first town (Whiterun, I think it was called), did some quests, got bored and dropped it, telling myself I might try it again some time. That was years ago and I still haven't. And yet you don't see me going to the Bethesda board (do they even exist?) to rant about how I hated the game and how Bethesda should make more games like X and Y. Same with DotA 2, a game my brother tried to get me into but which bored me to tears. I kind of like Heroes of the Storm, though, but I'm not in the DotA 2 forums, complaining that the game sucks and should be more like HotS.

 

No, the reason I ****** about DAI is because I actually care that the game sucks. I thoroughly enjoyed DAO and hoped for a sequel that I would like about as much. DA2 wasn't bad, but it was a disappointment and not up to par. DAI, however, was a huge letdown. It's the first Bioware game that I've disliked, because it just bored me. I disliked it so much that right after I beat Corypheus I quit the game, all upset. I had read there was an epilogue sequence a la DAO, and that was one of the things that kept me going through the grind, but after that lame as all hell battle, following a lame as all hell game... well, I just didn't care anymore. Which is not what I've come to expect from Bioware games.

 

Yeah, I think CDPR beats Bioware in pretty much every category, but there's no need to reduce it to a competition. I still enjoy Bioware games for the most part, and whatever the case there just aren't that many AAA developers focusing on RPGs for me to be too picky (especially since I already don't like Bethesda games). So I don't want Bioware to imitate anyone; I just want them to keep making games that I like, as they have done before.

 

And I see no reason why it has to be an and/or case. I mean, we both enjoyed KoA even though it wasn't that great. Some people are bound to be disappointed with MEA no matter what, but there's no reason why Bioware has to cater to either the people who loved DAI or the people who hated it and rule out compromise.

 

I felt Inquisition was a great follow up to the style of Origins personally.  I thought I was playing what Origins could have been if made 5 years later with the tech we had in 2014.

 

And I worry because the constant refrains to "be more like the Witcher" from people will actually influence Bioware and we get a game that plays more like The Witcher, which absolutely bored me and I had to force myself to finish.  Your reaction to Inquisition, was mine for The Witcher and its epilogues.  I didn't care... and partly because CDPR utterly failed to create engaging, fully dimensional characters.  And I don't want to have to talk to some random guy every time to get the same cutscene and follow the same red trail until I kill something........ I hated that style of questing and delivery of context. 

 

So that is why I really hope they do not take much from TW3 because I find Inquisition to be a far better game in almost every single aspect. And given the cynical nature of the internet, there just needs to be that voice of those that enjoyed Inquisition in the sea of cynicism.   Fan ratings (outside of metatroll... I mean metacritic user reviews) for Inquisition are high, it just seems disingenuous to think the majority of people are as dejected with Inquisition as those that post on forums. And with Bioware being as reactive to  as they are criticism, for better and worse, figured I need to at least voice that the game wasn't as broken as a few posts make out. 

 

God forbid they scrap the improvements they made to create a more linear experience that has very little detail to the world and retreat from the themes that have made Dragon Age the best franchise out there.  

[The Hierophant]

I saw some of those videos on youtube. Just thinking about them makes me laugh. Luckily I got who I wanted, Julien

You're lucky. Mercedes why?

[AngryFrozenWater]

Of course it could have been better, anything can always be better. FF7 could have been better. Baulder's Gate could have been better, TW3 could have been better, the original Deus Ex could have been better, etc. Saying a game made mistakes is like arguing water is wet. Does DAI lack mini games? yes. Does DAI lack side quests? I would argue no, not really. They are simply presented differently. As an Example TW3 for the most part, does the same exact type of quests, the game simply dresses them up better by having you talk take a mission off of a board, ride to the NPC in question, have them give you some token dialogue, and then go to the Fetch Quest. It's the same content, just done up differently. 

Here's a fine example of one of the worst fetch quests in the game, which name we shan't utter on these forums:

 

 

In this case the player character already got the quest items, but it shows how detailed these are. I really love that one.

 

The game knows that fetch quests are awful. So it makes them fun or makes fun of them.

[TheRevanchist]

I personally, find DAI the most enjoyable game in the franchise to date. The combat of DAO has aged very poorly, imo and is almost unplayable on that aspect alone. I find myself listening to the DAI soundtrack far more often than those of DAO or DA2, despite my initial reservations about changing composers. I found the main quest zones vastly more diverse and appealing. I found the optional zones -mostly- enjoyable, except for the The Hissing Wastes, which I felt should have just been combined with The Western Approach. DAO, our lord and savior never emotionally moved me. There were times it utterly disgusted me, like the Broodmother section, but I never had a moment where I was stopped in my tracks and had tears come down my face. DAI? I absolutely did, on more than a single occasion, to be honest. 

[TheRevanchist]

Here's a fine example of one of the worst fetch quests in the game, which name we shan't utter on these forums:

 

 

In this case the player character already got the quest items, but it shows how detailed these are. I really love that one.

 

It knows that fetch quests are awful. So it makes them fun or makes fun of them.

 

Oh right, that dumb Troll quest. Yes, fetch quests -are- awful. They are also unavoidable, the best a dev can do is dress them up to make them tolerable. Could DAI done that better? yes, of course. But my original point remains.