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[Gwydden]

So that is why I really hope they do not take much from TW3 because I find Inquisition to be a far better game in almost every single aspect. And given the cynical nature of the internet, there just needs to be that voice of those that enjoyed Inquisition in the sea of cynicism.   Fan ratings (outside of metatroll... I mean metacritic user reviews) for Inquisition are high, it just seems disingenuous to think the majority of people are as dejected with Inquisition as those that post on forums. And with Bioware being as reactive to  as they are criticism, for better and worse, figured I need to at least voice that the game wasn't as broken as a few posts make out. 

Well, I'd like to point out TW3 also has excellent user reviews, so that doesn't mean much. I also get the impression that even those who liked DAI are usually willing to concede that the optional content was lackluster and should be done better next time. I mean, I'm sure you'll concede that there are areas where DAI could have done better? I love all three of TW games and think they are better than anything Bioware has put out, but I'm still more than willing to criticize what I perceive as their flaws. There's quite a few of them.

 

But honestly? I think I'll like MEA. The big question for me is whether it'll be really good or just okay. If they live up to their promise and make it like ME1 with the rough edges smoothed out, I'm sold. But I gotta follow it to know it. That's the biggest reason I'm hanging around here still.

 

Here's a fine example of one of the worst fetch quests in the game, which name we shan't utter on these forums:

 

In this case the player character already got the quest items, but it shows how detailed these are. I really love that one.

 

It knows that fetch quests are awful. So it makes them fun or makes fun of them.

Ha! I saw a merchant selling some paint tagged as a "quest item" in Oxenfurt and immediately grabbed it. It quickly paid off 

 

So joke's on you, CDPR!

 

DAO, our lord and savior never emotionally moved me. There were times it utterly disgusted me, like the Broodmother section, but I never had a moment where I was stopped in my tracks and had tears come down my face. DAI? I absolutely did, on more than a single occasion, to be honest. 

I'm curious as to what those moments are, if you don't mind sharing.

 

I want to stress there's no game I see as "our lord and savior." TW3 has flaws and a good number of them, some pretty egregious. Same goes for DAO.

[straykat]

I personally, find DAI the most enjoyable game in the franchise to date. The combat of DAO has aged very poorly, imo and is almost unplayable on that aspect alone. I find myself listening to the DAI soundtrack far more often than those of DAO or DA2, despite my initial reservations about changing composers. I found the main quest zones vastly more diverse and appealing. I found the optional zones -mostly- enjoyable, except for the The Hissing Wastes, which I felt should have just been combined with The Western Approach. DAO, our lord and savior never emotionally moved me. There were times it utterly disgusted me, like the Broodmother section, but I never had a moment where I was stopped in my tracks and had tears come down my face. DAI? I absolutely did, on more than a single occasion, to be honest. 

 

I think I said earlier that I liked one area.. The swamp. And I only sort of liked one part of the combat. The rogue. Mages suck... although they had good RP value.

[fdrty]

• The heavy emphasis on companions and banter: I haven't drawn up the numbers, but if this is not the Bioware game where the proportion of the time you spend interacting with companions respective to the entire game is the smallest, it certainly feels like it.

 

The banter glitch really was terrible. But, for a bioware game, your decisions and actions are actually something your companions react to. They often have things to say. Of course, if you only roll with the same trio, then you're gonna exhaust that banter fairly quickly. To get the most of the game, you have to rotate them.

 

If you look at the interactions compared to other games, it may be proportionately less than others, but overall there is more to be had. Of course, it depends on how much time you spend doing the open-world-y stuff (which depends on how good you are).

 

• The war table: if the war table made you feel like a leader, having to do menial labor emphatically did not. In that context, all the war table did was send your advisers to do all the actual leadership work while you were picking flowers and finding druffalos in the countryside, like leaders are known to do.

 

In a lot of RPGs there's the whole 'I have to save the world! Right after I help this cat out of this tree' nonsense. But at least DA goes some way to justifying the more silly quests.

 

You have to remember the position the Inquisition is in. It isn't one guy vs the world, it's a game about gathering strength and power to go to war. At the beginning of the game, the Inquisition has no allies, barely any forces. It's the remnant of the loyal forces who attended the conclave but were also unimportant enough to have survived the explosion. Doing things - anything - to gather resources and secure the allegiance of the people makes sense.

 

Just how in Origins doing side quests made sense - because the game was about gathering allies who could help fight the blight.

 

It's worth pointing out that the druffalo quest is done early, well before you become a leader.

 

The war table's biggest flaw, in my opinion, was that it didn't really make use of the power resource enough, to the point where you can have hundreds stockpiled at the end of the game. Perhaps is spending more power yielded greater results, or sped up the clock, it would have been better.

 

 

• The judgments: minuscule part of the game.

 

Well we don't want to be playing Judge simulator. And those are choices which do have big repercussions. It was good to actually have to think about the fates of your defeated enemies, and it played into your personal narrative of what kind of Inquisitor you chose to be. But there has to be a limit. Do I wish there were more judgements? Yeah. But to criticise a feature for being 'miniscule' in a 100 hour game is... well it doesn't really feel like a criticism to me.

 

 

• Finding mosaic pieces and astrariums: this is fun or interesting how? It's basically "there's that, go fetch!" at its most basic.

 

These were never meant to be the meat of the sidequests and exploration, and they aren't. They are the kind of thing that you're supposed to stumble across while you're exploring, and they reveal a little of the lore. Almost every open world game has some hidden goodies spread around to reward exploration. at least in DAI they often beef out the lore.

 

 

• Hidden ruins and easter eggs: that's not doing anything; that's looking at stuff, or if you prefer, looking for stuff. I expect something slightly more exciting from my RPGs than wandering about for pretty things to look at. Where is the choice and consequence? Where is the roleplaying? Where is the character interaction? Where is the decent plot and the thematic subtext? They seem to have gone the way of the griffin in this game.

 

Oh boy. Where to start? The game is littered with choices. You can see them on Dragon Age Keep. There are dozens. Literally.

 

If you remember to put on your reading glasses you'll find that a lot of these 'pretty things' actually reveal much about the world.

 

The roleplaying is what you're doing when you're controlling the inquisitor. If anything, it's a far more 'role playing' game than, say, TW, because you really get to define your character, from his gender, to his sexuality, to his politics, to his background, and even his voice. It would seem that you were either so immersed in the roleplaying that you didn't even realise you were making those supposedly nonexistent choices, or you simply chose to ignore all that, and instead wandered around the hinterlands for a couple hours then decided that was the entirety of the game.

 

There is also a lot of character interaction. But in alll RPGs there are characters who are basically talking signposts, or quest givers. Not everyone can have 100 lines of dialogue. But the characters that matter? There's plenty of interaction to be had there.

 

• Customizing Skyhold: and we're back to "I expect more exciting and interesting things from my RPGs than feng shui." Not to mention Skyhold irritates me to no end, between the weird design, the green flowering trees in the middle of a mountain range, the lack of anything particularly interesting to do beyond talking to companions and those... godawful... pajamas.

 

I don;t know how else to say this, but THERE WERE MORE EXCITING AND INTERESTING THINGS IN DAI. There was an entire game out there. It feel like you're taking one aspect of the game, removing it from the rest, and then criticising the game as though that one selected aspect was the entirety of the game. That is neither fair, nor is it honest criticism.

 

Most games wouldn't even really let you customise Skyhold. And few would fill it with as many interesting people to talk to.

 

Yes, there can be flowers and trees in mountain ranges. And it is explicitly a magical place. In a magical world. They can have waterfalls running backwards if they want, as long as it fits the lore. Which Skyhold does.

 

You're criticising the pajamas... even though they added more. It's like you want them to remove an aspect of the game, yet you criticise them for having it as 'you expect better'.

 

But I'm trying to illustrate why some of us consider DAI to be a horrendous taint upon this earth and would see a repeat of it with slightly less horror than the awakening of the great Cthulhu. Ia, ia!

 

Well, everyone's entitled to their opinion. But, do you really think that, by any reasonable view of the quality and artistry of video games, that  DAI is a 'horrendous taint upon this earth'? Do you expect such an opinion to be taken seriously? Here, of all places?

[The Twilight God]

My guess would be that Mac "Plot Vomit" Walters is not only still employeed as a writer, but was promoted after ME3. How can anyone have any confidence in a studio that still has a guy like that heading the writing department?

[straykat]

My guess would be that Mac "Plot Vomit" Walters is not only still employeed as a writer, but was promoted after ME3. How can anyone have any confidence in a studio that still has a guy like that heading the writing department?

 

I think he wanted to do more than what was in ME3.. so I can't blame him entirely. At least for the things I was annoyed with. I know that pre-release, he was frustrated how he couldn't fit in ME2 characters better... and I know he initially came up with the Citadel DLC idea. Among other things. I think he liked all of the characters and that was my main complaint about the vanilla game.

 

But as for other issues, I guess that's up to everyone to decide for themselves.

[Kabraxal]

Well, I'd like to point out TW3 also has excellent user reviews, so that doesn't mean much. I also get the impression that even those who liked DAI are usually willing to concede that the optional content was lackluster and should be done better next time. I mean, I'm sure you'll concede that there are areas where DAI could have done better? I love all three of TW games and think they are better than anything Bioware has put out, but I'm still more than willing to criticize what I perceive as their flaws. There's quite a few of them.

 

But honestly? I think I'll like MEA. The big question for me is whether it'll be really good or just okay. If they live up to their promise and make it like ME1 with the rough edges smoothed out, I'm sold. But I gotta follow it to know it. That's the biggest reason I'm hanging around here still.

 

Ha! I saw a merchant selling some paint tagged as a "quest item" in Oxenfurt and immediately grabbed it. It quickly paid off 

 

So joke's on you, CDPR!

 

I'm curious as to what those moments are, if you don't mind sharing.

 

I want to stress there's no game I see as "our lord and savior." TW3 has flaws and a good number of them, some pretty egregious. Same goes for DAO.

 

I think Inquisition needed to end a few of the War Table lines with actual quests the Inquisitor completes... for instance, any negotiating missions that were longer could have ended with a judgement style scene where the player can be involved in the dialogue and that effects the outcome. 

 

I would have liked to have the keeps be more reactive as originally marketed naturally.  I think there is a lot that can be done to effect how a region might be changed from the Inquisition's presence.

 

While I do enjoy having to choose between the mages or Templars, I wanted to see much more reactive content to that.  While there was enough that it did alter how things felt, it just didn't seem like there was enough varying quests that spin off from that decision (ie, hunting abominations or dealing with lyrium addiction en masse).

 

What was in Inquisition was amazing and a great foundation that can be improved upon.  And given that they shouldn't be creating everything from scratch for a new engine, we should see more reactivity.  Which, if they don't knee jerk in a different direction because of the cynical nature of the interent, will make a game even greater than Inquisition. 

 

It isn't a case of not finding fault in Inquisition, but that I find the few actual flaws there are nowhere near as egregious as they are made out to be on the internet.  And certainly no more egregious than other open world RPGs.  When I put up a list of "eh, could have done this" between this, Fallout 4 and The Witcher 3... well, Inquisition has far fewer tweaks to make because it does so much right.  Fallout clearly needs more tweaking in terms of the dialogue system (it's new, I give them a little pass there) and it is working on the characters, but it still has the feeling that the characters are devices in a massive yet detailed world.  Also, want more reactivity in the world to quests.  Bethesda's world rarely seems to notice that things are happening very often....Witcher... well, it needs a massive overhaul in my mind because I just did not find the story well told, the characters fleshed out, the quest system to integrate well into the world design, and the world design itself to be "RPG maker like" in that it was filled with stuff, but with very little thinking as to why things were there. 
 

[TheRevanchist]

Well, I'd like to point out TW3 also has excellent user reviews, so that doesn't mean much. I also get the impression that even those who liked DAI are usually willing to concede that the optional content was lackluster and should be done better next time. I mean, I'm sure you'll concede that there are areas where DAI could have done better? I love all three of TW games and think they are better than anything Bioware has put out, but I'm still more than willing to criticize what I perceive as their flaws. There's quite a few of them.
 
But honestly? I think I'll like MEA. The big question for me is whether it'll be really good or just okay. If they live up to their promise and make it like ME1 with the rough edges smoothed out, I'm sold. But I gotta follow it to know it. That's the biggest reason I'm hanging around here still.
 
Ha! I saw a merchant selling some paint tagged as a "quest item" in Oxenfurt and immediately grabbed it. It quickly paid off 
 
So joke's on you, CDPR!
 
I'm curious as to what those moments are, if you don't mind sharing.
 
I want to stress there's no game I see as "our lord and savior." TW3 has flaws and a good number of them, some pretty egregious. Same goes for DAO.

 

Call me crazy if you wish, but something about this scene really choked me up. The combination of music selection, seeing Grey Wardens being manipulated through their own foolishness, and seeing an old woman who was Theda's best hope for peace being sacrificed by a madman...idk man, it just gets me. 

 

 

I shouldn't even have to explain this one. 

[straykat]

[

I shouldn't even have to explain this one. 

 

Not impressed. Simply because of who they're singing to.

 

Leliana's singing in DAO was far more touching to me. Her song was In Uthenera (Leliana's Song) and I much prefer the themes of Death they were going for there far more than this.

 

If DAO was death (or survival) and DA2 was family (or home), then DAI is Faith.... except they're all fools about it and can't tackle the subject.

[AngryFrozenWater]

In defense of DA:I's fetch quests, let's see how ME3 did them:

 

Especially when I played ME3 first, I had no idea where to start with the fetch quests that Shepard got by spying on innocent bystanders and often were automatically given, without a chance to refuse. There were log entries with little to no clues. It turned out that I simply had to ignore them. If the player is a completionist then he/she would encounter the quest items anyway. However, the logs rarely updated once you found one. And most of the time I had completely forgotten who the quest giver was and were to find him or her. They made no impression on me. So, once in a while I systematically roamed every level of the Citadel looking for quest givers to return items or looking for new quests. It was really that bad.

 

I rather do the DA:I fetch quest than those in ME3.

[straykat]

In defense of DA:I's fetch quests, let's see how ME3 did them:

 

Especially when I played ME3 first, I had no idea where to start with the fetch quests that Shepard got by spying on innocent bystanders and often were automatically given, without a chance to refuse. There were log entries with little to no clues. It turned out that I simply had to ignore them. If the player is a completionist then he/she would encounter the quest items anyway. However, the logs rarely updated once you found one. And most of the time I had completely forgotten who the quest giver was and were to find him or her. So, once in a while I systematically roamed every level of the Citadel looking for quest givers. It was really that bad.

 

I rather do the DA:I fetch quest than those in ME3.

 

All of their recent games have been pretty bad about it. Not sure what's better.

 

DAO had fetch stuff too (Collective/Chantry board), but at least some had more dialogue sometimes. Pointless stuff, but there was added entertainment to some of them. Like running into those guys hunting a bloodmage. "Darkspawn, you don't say?" A little of that goes a long way.

[Gwydden]

Oh, boy. Didn't want to turn this into a big debate. But I do guess that my biggest source of concern for MEA is DAI, and based on this thread I'm not the only one. A quick response, maybe?

 

Spoiler

If you look at the interactions compared to other games, it may be proportionately less than others, but overall there is more to be had. Of course, it depends on how much time you spend doing the open-world-y stuff (which depends on how good you are).

What I meant by this was that, yeah, talking to your companions is fun, but you barely spend any time doing it. I doubt all of the companion content amounts to even 1% of the game.

 

In a lot of RPGs there's the whole 'I have to save the world! Right after I help this cat out of this tree' nonsense. But at least DA goes some way to justifying the more silly quests.

 

In DAO the Warden is basically an errant knight who only had the help of his companions. In DAI the Inquisition is an organization where presumably you can send people to do more menial work. What, Harding's bunch couldn't bother to pick up all the elf root you might need? What kind of scouts are they? And what is this about metal sticking out like a sore thumb out of hills, and the Inquisitor mining it with his bare hands?

 

The war table's biggest flaw, in my opinion, was that it didn't really make use of the power resource enough, to the point where you can have hundreds stockpiled at the end of the game. Perhaps is spending more power yielded greater results, or sped up the clock, it would have been better.

 

I read the war table missions. They sounded fun. More fun than what I was doing, at any rate. I think Cullen, Leliana and Josephine send you to do all the boring stuff on purpose. Assholes.

 

Do I wish there were more judgements? Yeah. But to criticise a feature for being 'miniscule' in a 100 hour game is... well it doesn't really feel like a criticism to me.

Not my point. Judgments were pointed out as one of the things that make the game enjoyable. Much like with the companions, I agree that they are but I also think that they are not a big enough part of the game to make up for the boring stuff.

 

These were never meant to be the meat of the sidequests and exploration, and they aren't. They are the kind of thing that you're supposed to stumble across while you're exploring, and they reveal a little of the lore. Almost every open world game has some hidden goodies spread around to reward exploration. at least in DAI they often beef out the lore.

 

Mosaic pieces encourage obsessively looking under every tree and rock. I did pretty much everything there was to do in the Hinterlands, went everywhere... and I still didn't get all of the ones you could find there! Astrariums show up on the map, so of course you're supposed to go straight to them and then play some Super Mario in a game with a crappy jumping mechanic.

 

I exaggerate, but this content is the sort that I gave up on almost immediately.

 

Oh boy. Where to start? The game is littered with choices. You can see them on Dragon Age Keep. There are dozens. Literally.

 

Meaningful choices are conspicuously absent outside of the main story, however.

 

If you remember to put on your reading glasses you'll find that a lot of these 'pretty things' actually reveal much about the world.

 

Worldbuilding is rather worthless on its own. I want to do stuff, not just learn about stuff other people did.

 

The roleplaying is what you're doing when you're controlling the inquisitor. If anything, it's a far more 'role playing' game than, say, TW, because you really get to define your character, from his gender, to his sexuality, to his politics, to his background, and even his voice. It would seem that you were either so immersed in the roleplaying that you didn't even realise you were making those supposedly nonexistent choices, or you simply chose to ignore all that, and instead wandered around the hinterlands for a couple hours then decided that was the entirety of the game.

 

I don't consider character customization to be an essential part of roleplaying. Pre-made characters are a thing even in tabletop roleplay. The way I see it, in a cRPG you roleplay mainly through dialogue and by making choices. Both things that barely existed outside of the main story (which is a pitiably small part of the game and pretty bad to boot).

 

I completed the main quest (well, like I said I didn't go through the epilogue since I stopped playing after the final boss fight with Corypheus) and did a lot of stuff in several areas. It wasn't just a couple hours on the Hinterlands. More like 15-20 or so.

 

I don;t know how else to say this, but THERE WERE MORE EXCITING AND INTERESTING THINGS IN DAI. There was an entire game out there. It feel like you're taking one aspect of the game, removing it from the rest, and then criticising the game as though that one selected aspect was the entirety of the game. That is neither fair, nor is it honest criticism.

I was specifically talking about Skyhold in that fragment, and about the rest of the game elsewhere.

 

Most games wouldn't even really let you customise Skyhold. And few would fill it with as many interesting people to talk to.

 

I... don't really care how Skyhold looked, so I never customized it. As for interesting people... where were they? I count two or three at the most. There were some fun characters, but I don't remember most of them being particularly interesting

 

Yes, there can be flowers and trees in mountain ranges. And it is explicitly a magical place. In a magical world. They can have waterfalls running backwards if they want, as long as it fits the lore. Which Skyhold does.

 

Ah, see, I just can't stand that kind of thinking. The Arbor Wilds drive me crazy to this day. What the hell is a tropic doing in the area closest to the pole? Yeah, yeah, magic. But they don't even bother to adress it, and I strongly suspect the big reason for it was just to make the area look different for the sake of being different.

 

I also happen to think Skyhold would have looked better without the "magic" trees or whatever.

 

You're criticising the pajamas... even though they added more. It's like you want them to remove an aspect of the game, yet you criticise them for having it as 'you expect better'.\

 

I would rather they didn't have it, actually. The crafted armors, which you could wear in Haven, looked pretty good.

 

Well, everyone's entitled to their opinion. But, do you really think that, by any reasonable view of the quality and artistry of video games, that  DAI is a 'horrendous taint upon this earth'? Do you expect such an opinion to be taken seriously? Here, of all places?

 

Oh, there was some hyperbole there. I thought the Cthulhu joke made it clear. My bad. Point is, I find the game utterly boring and not worth playing, which means it's failed its purpose as a game. So yeah, I'd rather there wasn't a repeat of it.

 

I shouldn't even have to explain this one. 

Eh... I'm with Straykat on this one. Cheesy moment. Really heavy handed, too.

 

In defense of DA:I's fetch quests, let's see how ME3 did them:

 

Especially when I played ME3 first, I had no idea where to start with the fetch quests that Shepard got by spying on innocent bystanders and often were automatically given, without a chance to refuse. There were log entries with little to no clues. It turned out that I simply had to ignore them. If the player is a completionist then he/she would encounter the quest items anyway. However, the logs rarely updated once you found one. And most of the time I had completely forgotten who the quest giver was and were to find him or her. They made no impression on me. So, once in a while I systematically roamed every level of the Citadel looking for quest givers to return items or looking for new quests. It was really that bad.

 

I rather do the DA:I fetch quest than those in ME3.

The ME series is full of fetch quests, but they have the courtesy to let you ignore them. Hence, I rarely bother with them. It's one of the reason why I'm not too worried about MEA turning out like DAI. Even if the side content is just as bad, I expect to be able to skip it.

[fdrty]

 

What I meant by this was that, yeah, talking to your companions is fun, but you barely spend any time doing it. I doubt all of the companion content amounts to even 1% of the game.

 

 

If you barely spent any time doing it, then that was how you chose to play the game. I chose to spend a lot of time talking to them finding out who they were, and what their goals were.

 

It is pretty much impossible to say what percentage something was when so much of the game is optional.

 

 

In DAI the Inquisition is an organization where presumably you can send people to do more menial work. What, Harding's bunch couldn't bother to pick up all the elf root you might need? What kind of scouts are they? And what is this about metal sticking out like a sore thumb out of hills, and the Inquisitor mining it with his bare hands?

 

 

I don't see everything that happens in game to be a transliteration of the characters actions - that is, I don't think the Inquisitor literally mines the iron out. I think he surveys the area, much like Mass Effect. Maybe I'm making a leap on my part, but I agree that the focus on resource collecting is one of the worst aspects of the game - but it's not as necessary as you might think.

 

 

I read the war table missions. They sounded fun. More fun than what I was doing, at any rate. I think Cullen, Leliana and Josephine send you to do all the boring stuff on purpose. Assholes.

 

They don't send you out based on what's interesting. YOU send THEM out based on their expertise. Josephine is a skilled diplomat, that's why she gets diplomatic missions. Cullen is a commander, that's why he gets missions commanding troops. It would be huge mary-sue territory for the Inquisitor to be able to do everything that they have spent their lives mastering.

 

 

Not my point. Judgments were pointed out as one of the things that make the game enjoyable. Much like with the companions, I agree that they are but I also think that they are not a big enough part of the game to make up for the boring stuff.

 

But, to me, that is DAI's strength. The number of small things which make its world more immersive, the small things which vary the gameplay enough without derailing it, the small things which can be nice little character moments. There's a balance there, between those numerous elements, which makes the game better as a whole.

 

 

Mosaic pieces encourage obsessively looking under every tree and rock. I did pretty much everything there was to do in the Hinterlands, went everywhere... and I still didn't get all of the ones you could find there! Astrariums show up on the map, so of course you're supposed to go straight to them and then play some Super Mario in a game with a crappy jumping mechanic.

 

I think this is down to both your own effectiveness, and your own sense of completionism. The mosaics are a little extra. You lose absolutely nothing by not getting them. They could easily have not been in the game. And there is a wiki which shows where they all are, and what all the lore linked to them is, if missing one or two pieces matters that much.

 

 

Meaningful choices are conspicuously absent outside of the main story, however.

 

This just isn't true. Iron Bull's sidequest, Leliana's sidequest, the divine election, Dorian's sidequest, Cole's quest, the list goes on. If you don't consider the choices which lead to those character-defining moments to be 'meaningful' then the idea of meaningful choices outside of the main storyline is essentially a contradictory term.

 

 

Worldbuilding is rather worthless on its own. I want to do stuff, not just learn about stuff other people did.

 

You do do stuff. Lots of stuff. Important stuff.

 

 

 

I don't consider character customization to be an essential part of roleplaying. Pre-made characters are a thing even in tabletop roleplay. The way I see it, in a cRPG you roleplay mainly through dialogue and by making choices. Both things that barely existed outside of the main story (which is a pitiably small part of the game and pretty bad to boot).

 

There is a lot of dialogue. There's a lot that isn't dialogue, but there is plenty of dialogue. Especially in the companion sidequests which you seem to have ignored. Despite the game literally telling you to talk to your companions at Skyhold.

 

Also I think making your own protagonist really adds a big element to the game. You can really claim ownership of. When I play the witcher, I never really feel like I am Geralt. But in games where I can make my character, I feel like I am them. What is that, if not the essence of 'roleplaying'?

 

You spent 15 hours in the Hinterlands? Not to say that you're playing the game wrong, but you seem to have chosen to engage the most with the content you enjoyed the least, while ignoring the content which you say you want them to put into the game.

 

 

 

I... don't really care how Skyhold looked, so I never customized it. As for interesting people... where were they? I count two or three at the most. There were some fun characters, but I don't remember most of them being particularly interesting

 

 

Your companions? Your advisers? People like Hawke and Morrigan? Even if you didn't like them all, they were at least interesting. That's the thing. Nobody wears a neon sign saying 'I'm interesting!' above their heads. You have to go out there, talk to them, and get them to reveal the interesting things about themselves.

 

 

Whatever gave you the impression that the Arbor Wilds were next to the poles? Is it because the Emprise du Lion is snowy? (because places can be snowy and be far from the poles) So much of the world is unexplored - in all directions. There are plenty of lands to the south, and what we see of Thedas is only a fraction.

 

 

I'm not trying to blindly defend this game. I wouldn't even spend this much time typing this, if not for having to take my mind of something serious which happened in the middle of the night.

 

I think if you played it again, but differently, you'd see a lot more of the game you wish it was. Instead of playing it how you think it should be played, but leaving some of the best content on the table. I genuinely think it's worth giving it another try.

 

I think Inquisition is at the very least a competent game. I am not worried about MEA because of Inquisition. Because Inquisition, while not perfect, nailed the things it needed to. I don't think it's fair to criticise games for not being exactly the experience that you wanted: you have to look at the game as a whole and what it tries to achieve, and how well it does that. In that regard, DAI was far better at being what it set out to be than ME3.

 

ME3 failed at the most important time. It failed so completely, so thoroughly, that the ending has become the most talked about aspect of an otherwise pretty good game. That is what I worry about with MEA. Not that it isn't perfect, because it won't be. But that it will have some catastrophic flaw which will ruin the experience and overshadow the good that is in the game.

[AlanC9]

Especially when I played ME3 first, I had no idea where to start with the fetch quests that Shepard got by spying on innocent bystanders and often were automatically given, without a chance to refuse. There were log entries with little to no clues. It turned out that I simply had to ignore them. If the player is a completionist then he/she would encounter the quest items anyway. However, the logs rarely updated once you found one. And most of the time I had completely forgotten who the quest giver was and were to find him or her. They made no impression on me. So, once in a while I systematically roamed every level of the Citadel looking for quest givers to return items or looking for new quests. It was really that bad.
 

You could have just looked at the map for people to return stuff to. It wouldn't tell you who to get quests from, but you don't need to get the quests to do them anyway.

[ObserverStatus]

In defense of DA:I's fetch quests, let's see how ME3 did them:

 

Especially when I played ME3 first, I had no idea where to start with the fetch quests that Shepard got by spying on innocent bystanders and often were automatically given, without a chance to refuse. There were log entries with little to no clues. It turned out that I simply had to ignore them. If the player is a completionist then he/she would encounter the quest items anyway. However, the logs rarely updated once you found one. And most of the time I had completely forgotten who the quest giver was and were to find him or her. They made no impression on me. So, once in a while I systematically roamed every level of the Citadel looking for quest givers to return items or looking for new quests. It was really that bad.

 

I rather do the DA:I fetch quest than those in ME3.

Remember the fetch quests in ME2? You bought presents for your staff, and then, no more fetch quests. ME2 was great.

[AngryFrozenWater]

You could have just looked at the map for people to return stuff to. It wouldn't tell you who to get quests from, but you don't need to get the quests to do them anyway.

It turned out that way, after I figured that out.

 

Again: It confused me when I started playing ME3 anyway, especially because the logs don't properly update. You have to visit the Citadel to notice that the map updated, because on the Normandy that map is not available. That system sure is vague to me.

 

More confusion: One quest I had to finish by talking to a couch (the one with Sommers, I think). Barla Von is another nice variation. He was a character that I at least recognized. It worked for me fine the first time. The second time it turned out that quest was broken for some reason. There was another one where I needed to scan several things on several Citadel levels, but the quest marker didn't update properly. That got me busy.

 

Talking about faith in the ME-team. They couldn't care less. As long as a broken quest doesn't crash they are fine with it.

[Gileadan]

It turned out that way, after I figured that out.

 

Again: It confused me when I started playing ME3 anyway, especially because the logs don't properly update. You have to visit the Citadel to notice that the map updated, because on the Normandy that map is not available. That system sure is vague to me.

 

More confusion: One quest I had to finish by talking to a couch (the one with Sommers, I think). Barla Von is another nice variation. He was a character that I at least recognized. It worked for me fine the first time. The second time it turned out that quest was broken for some reason. There was another one where I needed to scan several things on several Citadel levels, but the quest marker didn't update properly. That got me busy.

 

Talking about faith in the ME-team. They couldn't care less. As long as a broken quest doesn't crash they are fine with it.

Not only that, but the quest titles in your log are also inconsistent. They are given in a "Location: Quest goal" format - except that location is sometimes the location of the quest item and sometimes the location of the quest giver. So "Citadel: Whatever" could mean that whatever is on the Citadel, or that the dude who wants whatever is there and whatever is somewhere else. So not even reading the list of entries will reliably tell you where to go.

 

Also, several quests unlock before their locations do, forcing you to keep playing and watching your star map for additional destinations to pop up.

 

It's one of the most clumsy and inefficient quest logs in years.

[TheRevanchist]

Not impressed. Simply because of who they're singing to.

 

Leliana's singing in DAO was far more touching to me. Her song was In Uthenera (Leliana's Song) and I much prefer the themes of Death they were going for there far more than this.

 

If DAO was death (or survival) and DA2 was family (or home), then DAI is Faith.... except they're all fools about it and can't tackle the subject.

 

Weather you are impressed or not is irrelevant to me. That is universally hailed by the majority as the games high point. The dev who created that scene received overwhelming levels of props and appreciation for it's inclusion by the fanbase, and I also watched the live stream of a 39 year old man break down into tears when that scene happened. You can call it cheesy and heavy handed if you wish, but many, many people would claim otherwise. 

[straykat]

Weather you are impressed or not is irrelevant to me. That is universally hailed by the majority as the games high point. The dev who created that scene received overwhelming levels of props and appreciation for it's inclusion by the fanbase, and I also watched the live stream of a 39 year old man break down into tears when that scene happened. You can call it cheesy and heavy handed if you wish, but many, many people would claim otherwise. 

 

You act like it's Victory In Europe day or something. Overwhelming crowds and such.

 

If I'm irrelevant, just don't mention it. I never wanted to talk about this for long anyways.  Irrelevant or not though, I was a fan. I own the CE and got hyped with the best of them. I wasn't predetermined to hate it. I tried.

[Kroitz]

 

I shouldn't even have to explain this one. 

 

Spoiler

[Shechinah]

Not impressed. Simply because of who they're singing to.

 

Leliana's singing in DAO was far more touching to me. Her song was In Uthenera (Leliana's Song) and I much prefer the themes of Death they were going for there far more than this.

 

If DAO was death (or survival) and DA2 was family (or home), then DAI is Faith.... except they're all fools about it and can't tackle the subject.

 

While In Uthenera was nice and the scene had some goods bits to it such as Sten's reaction, I did feel like the scene and by extension the song did not have much of a reason to it being there from a story-perspective. I should note that I enjoyed it. I just did not feel like there was much to it.  

 

The Dawn Shall Come, I felt, worked well wih the point it happened at in the story. Haven had been lost and the survivors were in the wilderness, scared and without hope which made them be at each other's throats about things. Mother Giselle's song serves to reunite them and bring back hope by reminding them that however bad things may seem, a new dawn will come. The line "look to the sky, the dawn will come" can take on a special meaning given that this takes place after the Breach has been closed. The very Breach that marked a chaotic time full of fear and confusion. Now it sits as a reminder that no matter how bad things may seem, a new tomorrow would and did come.    

 

It is the same with the Herald; they found the camp after coming wandering out of the wilderness after seemingly having died at Haven. The Herald, whether or not they want to call themselves such, sealed the Breach and now when everything seemed lost again, the Herald returns to them once again despite the odds.

 

Look to the sky and see what this person and we accomplished despite how lost things seemed. Giselle's song is about inspiring hope and faith in the people at the camp by reminding them of this. This may be hope and faith in a new tomorrow or hope and faith in a specific person.  
 

Some follow the Herald because of faith in their divinity, some follow the Herald because of faith in their skills. Both follow the Herald because of what the Herald has done.

[straykat]

While Leliana's song was nice and the scene had some goods bits to it such as Sten's reaction, I did feel like the scene and by extension the song did not have much of a reason to it being there from a story-perspective. I should note that I enjoyed it. I just did not feel like there was much to it.  

 

It fits in a lot of the subtext. It's not heavy handed or anything. Like I said, if DAO has a theme, it's death. Or maybe more specifically, acceptance of death. Whether it's talking to Leliana, or Wynne, or Sten and his admonitions on duty, or Alistair and conflicting with him about the Wardens. It's always kind of being brought up. Most of the main quests generally end with a dramatic death too. Her song is a funeral song. Depending on how things play out, it's a funeral song for you.

 

But at the same time, it's great because you're supposed to be conflicted and pissed off and Morrigan is sitting in the corner trying to convince you of something else. She's all about survival. She's the anti-Leliana.

 

 

I'd like a game that tackles faith, but this isn't it. I could've sworn even Weekes said he wasn't that happy with it.. or thought it could be better. Whatever it is they were going for, it came off like Life of Brian to me. Except Life of Brian is funny and wasn't so serious.

[Shechinah]

It fits in a lot of the subtext. It's not heavy handed or anything. Like I said, if DAO has a theme, it's death. Or maybe more specifically, acceptance of death. Whether it's talking to Leliana, or Wynne, or Sten and his admonitions on duty, or Alistair and conflicting with him about the Wardens. It's always kind of being brought up. Most of the main quests generally end with a dramatic death too. Her song is a funeral song. Depending on how things play out, it's a funeral song for you.
 
But at the same time, it's great because you're supposed to be conflicted and pissed off and Morrigan is sitting in the corner trying to convince you of something else. She's all about survival. She's the anti-Leliana.

 
I like the In Uthenera scene more with this interpretation in mind but personally, I still prefer the Dawn Will Come scene.
 

I'd like a game that tackles faith, but this isn't it. I could've sworn even Weekes said he wasn't that happy with it.. or thought it could be better. Whatever it is they were going for, it came off like Life of Brian to me. Except Life of Brian is funny and wasn't so serious.

 
Personally, I felt Inquisition tackled the theme of faith better than most games I've seen even if it stumbled once in a while and dropped the ball on it on occasion. Like how Corypheus' motivation was his crisis of faith and his desire to become a god stemmed from this loss of faith. This was something that could have been played more beyond the awesome scene at Haven.

[straykat]

 
I like the In Uthenera scene more with this interpretation in mind but personally, I still prefer the Dawn Will Come scene.
 

 
Personally, I felt Inquisition tackled the theme of faith better than most games I've seen even if it stumbled once in a while and dropped the ball on it on occasion. Like how Corypheus' motivation was his crisis of faith and his desire to become a god stemmed from this loss of faith. This was something that could have been played more beyond the awesome scene at Haven.

 

I'll give you that about Corypheus. There was a cool idea there. Although I still don't like how it played out.

 

I think I really started souring by this point because I realized how I didn't matter. The same level of power and faith was bestowed regardless. There's no roleplaying aspect to it. It's like finding out a person who you thought loved you can easily fall for anyone else too. Even the person who hates them. Hah. It brings out disgust in me. Not appreciation. And it gets worse from there. You're accepted and perfect at everything, with very little blowback or regardless of who you are. At least DAO had the excuse of you hiding behind a bigger symbol.. the Wardens. That's convenient enough for me to move on. This wasn't.

 

And the extreme power and faith presented here wasn't existent in the Chantry before anyhow. Except for Andraste. They're not an interventionist religion. She said herself the Maker has turned away. Yet now they're trying to write Moses or Muhammad into a religion that wasn't even geared for that. Just because it's "faith". As if they're all the same. But now I'm getting on a whole topic of theology, so I'll cut it short.

[Shechinah]

I'll give you that about Corypheus. There was a cool idea there. Although I still don't like how it played out.

 

I feel Corypheus had a lot of potential that was not executed well at all such as his motivation being his loss of faith, his methods being akin to a chessmaster and such. The lack of attention to his motivation made it seem more like he had the generic motivation of being after power for power's sake and his methods made it seem like he was an ineffectual villain since Haven was one of his few, maybe only, victories. I'm hoping Solas avoids these problems in his future involvements.

 

I think I really started souring by this point because I realized how I didn't matter. The same level of power and faith was bestowed regardless. There's no roleplaying aspect to it. It's like finding out a person who you thought loved you can easily fall for anyone else too. Even the person who hates them. Hah. It brings out disgust in me. Not appreciation. And it gets worse from there. You're accepted and perfect at everything, with very little blowback or regardless of who you are. At least DAO had the excuse of you hiding behind a bigger symbol.. the Wardens. That's convenient enough for me to move on. This wasn't.

 

It's not for everybody and I can certainly understand that sentiment even if I do not share it.
 
 Personally, I love it especially since it seems an attempted deconstruction of the Chosen One trope with a more faith-centered approach. You don't have a choice in what people believe or how they percieve you. You were not divinely chosen but became seen as such by people because the desperate times made them desperate for anything that might make sense of things and your actions, intentionally or not, only reinforced their beliefs about you. In this situation, your roleplaying is about how you percieve yourself and react to this perception by others.
 
It  might ease a bit if you interpret that some of the Inquisition's follows believe in it because of the real actions it has done and not because they believe it or it's leader were divinely appointed. 
 

And the extreme power and faith presented here wasn't existent in the Chantry before anyhow. Except for Andraste. They're not an interventionist religion. She said herself the Maker has turned away. Yet now they're trying to write Moses or Muhammad into a religion that wasn't even geared for that. Just because it's "faith". As if they're all the same. But now I'm getting on a whole topic of theology, so I'll cut it short.

 
I can understand that although I consider it just a natural development of a religion when it is as large as the Maker faith since religions do tend to take on variants and interpretations the more it spreads and grows.
 
An example would be Elthina: she was amongst the people of the Chantry who saw the Maker as acting to an extent through the Warden during the Blight. This is despite the Maker being an absent god in their religion. It’s the same with the priestess in the Ostagar camp providing the Maker's blessings to the soldiers.
 
Add in that some religions in old and modern times work to convert people and integrate itself into cultures by playing on a preexistent religion and basically encouraging an interpretation of the preexistent religion that is similar to the religion's own beliefs about things. This can result in the new religion becoming dominant in the area and for that people but with it having remnants of the previous religion. 
 
Also, desperate times can often make people seek out what they find comfort in or feel holds a semblence of protection. Heh, I'm reminded me of this from the Simpsons where Lisa and an old friend of Marge are trapped by a volcano that is erupting. Lisa is in the trunk of Chloe's car.

Chloe: "Lisa, what are you doing in there?"
Lisa Simpson: "Praying to Buddha, Jesus, Spongebob. There's no time to be picky!"
 

But now I'm getting on a whole topic of theology, so I'll cut it short.

 Well, the thread is about faith of a sort 

[von uber]

 

I shouldn't even have to explain this one. 

 

That scene made me really cringe when I watched it. It was taking the messiah complex to even newer levels; I really do not get the obsession with this trope. I suspect some marketing / strategy person has decreed that this is what is needed to make things sell. It's a real turn off for me, this quasi-religious symbolism. ME3 fell into this as well.

 

I've said this before, but DA:I was generally pretty ok on a technical level (awful controls and UI/Inventory aside), the main issue is that for me, it was just plain dull. Which is probably worse.