51 réponses à ce sujet

[Lulupab]

So there is enough evidence that suggests the blight cannot spread in the fade, and evidently cannot spread in Thedas if there is no veil. Now I don't want to argue if this is true or not, but lets assume its true for the purpose of this thread.

 

The darkspawn's sole goal is destruction of all life on Thedas without hesitation, remorse or anything really. They just march and kill and will not stop until the only thing remaining is blight and blighted living beings. They are not particularly smart but they are fully capable of fighting and only need direction.

 

Demons are unpredictable beings that according to various sources and Solas himself, majority of them are not really intelligent. There are of course very intelligent demons but they are very rare. They don't have a real goal or direction, they would fight among themselves, ignore mortals altogether or have variety of motives, most of which is not destruction of Thedas as a world.

 

So if the veil is removed, do you think demons would pose the same threat as the darkspwan? Personally I doubt Demons would unite to attack, least of all do it in hordes. Any attack or threat would be chaotic and random so I don't see how demons can threaten all of Thedas like the Darkspawn. I think Grey Wardens might even support removal of the veil, anything to fight the blight right? I think in their eyes permanent removal of blight is a fair deal if it means some demons will run amok.

 

Thoughts? 

 

 

[Qun00]

The ancient elves had no problem with it, so it must be manageable somehow.

[The Ascendant]

They are more akin to forces of nature than thinking men. Aside from Emissaries, Alphas, Pride, Desire and Higher Demons, they are only sufficiently dangerous when circumstances allow them to arrive en mass, i.e. Blights and tears in the Veil. 

[Aliceeverafter]

Spirits become demons if they are forced to act against their nature (as we saw in All New Faded for Her quest in DA:I) and if they are forcibly pulled through the Veil against their will. So i don't think there will be demons in that sense if the Veil were to come down. They are attracted to life but without the Veil i think peaceful co-existence is the norm.

 

I think the blight is different because it seems to be an actual disease or something that makes people turn into pustulant monstrosities or broodmothers and so on. So the desire by Darkspawn to spread this is differently motivated. They eat humans adn animals and use them to become brood mothers and so on.

[BloodKaiden]

I don't know, I'd take demons over darkspawn since I've never had that great a respect for the Warden order in the first place. Don't need Wardens to take down demons. Plus the whole taint corruption just seems like a horrible way to go, demons more than likely will kill you quick or make deals that only come to bite you in the ass later down the line.

[Lulupab]

So, assuming removal of the veil ends the blights forever its better to have veil altogether?

[BloodKaiden]

So, assuming removal of the veil ends the blights forever its better to have veil altogether?

Imo yes, I'm absolutely certain you will have dangers either way however you get long breaks in between Blights but when they do happen it's hell on earth with only the Grey Warden order to completely end it and I'm not comfortable relying on them for anything. Especially after DAI. I can see them dying out entirely quite easily. I'll take the veil and surround myself with mages or Templars I trust if **** gets real.

[Fredward]

Do you know what's weird? We've never seen possessed darkspawn. ~makes X-File noise~

 

Anyway, I think the lower ranked demons do not have meaningful intelligence but if we look at the higher ranked ones like pride and desire (desire especially) and fear they all seem to be pretty complex creatures. If it's not exactly intelligence and rather just a perfect and fluid understanding and embodiment of whatever they represent it's indistinguishable from intelligence, from my perspective.

 

If the Veil were removed and demons/spirits functioned exactly as they do now then I'd rank them higher than darkspawn.

[Qun00]

Do you know what's weird? We've never seen possessed darkspawn. ~makes X-File noise~

My theory is that the demon would need to struggle against the calling of the Old Gods, which makes it harder to possess a darkspawn host.

[Xilizhra]

Do you know what's weird? We've never seen possessed darkspawn. ~makes X-File noise~

 

Anyway, I think the lower ranked demons do not have meaningful intelligence but if we look at the higher ranked ones like pride and desire (desire especially) and fear they all seem to be pretty complex creatures. If it's not exactly intelligence and rather just a perfect and fluid understanding and embodiment of whatever they represent it's indistinguishable from intelligence, from my perspective.

 

If the Veil were removed and demons/spirits functioned exactly as they do now then I'd rank them higher than darkspawn.

Spirits are repelled by the taint. That's why Avernus was able to manipulate it to use as an anti-demon weapon. I believe it's also why no spirits ever try to approach the Black City.

[Steelcan]

Even if the veil is removed ed there'd still be things cor darkspawn to taint. People would still exist and could be tainted, the ground can still be tainted, just roving spirits and demons would have aversions to encountering it.

[Qun00]

Spirits are repelled by the taint. That's why Avernus was able to manipulate it to use as an anti-demon weapon. I believe it's also why no spirits ever try to approach the Black City.

But the Grey Wardens at Adamant were successfully possessed.

[thats1evildude]

There was no Veil in the old world that the elves ruled. Spirits were always part of their civilization, as was the fact that everyone could perform magic. Establishing the Veil essentially destroyed their society, which couldn't adapt to the new reality.

 

If the Veil was suddenly sundered, it'd be like shattering a dam. Spirits and demons would flood into the world, and everyone (except perhaps dwarves) would suddenly be capable of magic they never learned to wield. And let's not discount the possible effect on the darkspawn, or the releasing of the Evanuris.

 

As Solas himself said, Thedas as we know it would burn in the raw chaos.

[Lulupab]

As Solas himself said, Thedas as we know it would burn in the raw chaos.

 

You mean like a blight? The first blight remains the most catastrophic event in Thedas to date, the breach was a joke in comparison. If Grey Wardens didn't came to be the world would have ended, pretty much. It took a whole age for the world to recover from that.

[thats1evildude]

You mean like a blight? The first blight remains the most catastrophic event in Thedas to date, the breach was a joke in comparison. If Grey Wardens didn't came to be the world would have ended, pretty much. It took a whole age for the world to recover from that.

 

No, worse than a Blight. Blights are bad, but the darkspawn rely on winning in the long run. Most of Thedas lived through the Fifth Blight quite comfortably since it never extended beyond Ferelden's borders.

 

Sundering the Veil would affect all of Thedas all at once. Sure, the First Blight was devastating, but consider that the darkspawn failed to destroy Thedas even after a century of fighting. In the bad future created by Corypheus, the world ended in one year.

[Lulupab]

No, worse than a Blight. Blights are bad, but the darkspawn rely on winning in the long run. Most of Thedas lived through the Fifth Blight quite comfortably since it never extended beyond Ferelden's borders.

 

Sundering the Veil would affect all of Thedas all at once. Sure, the First Blight was devastating, but consider that the darkspawn failed to destroy Thedas even after a century of fighting. In the bad future created by Corypheus, the world ended in one year.

 

Corypheus is a darkspawn though, and there are more like him. 

[thats1evildude]

Corypheus is a darkspawn though, and there are more like him. 

 

I don't really understand why that matters.

 

Sundering the Veil would destroy the world, plain and simple. This was Solas' plan.

[Lulupab]

I don't really understand why that matters.

 

Sundering the Veil would destroy the world, plain and simple. This was Solas' plan.

 

Nothing plain and simple about it, Solas' plan involves killing people as in murdering them. Not just removing the veil.

 

Also Corypheus enslaved demons and used them, demons would not gather up and march to conquer all of thedas, their attacks would be chaotic and random at best.

[thats1evildude]

Nothing plain and simple about it, Solas' plan involves killing people as in murdering them. Not just removing the veil.

 

His original plan:

 

1) Have Corypheus unlock the orb. Recover it after his death.

2) Enter Fade and tear down the Veil.

3) Watch as Thedas burns in the raw chaos, then mold reality and bring back the elven civilization.

[LobselVith8]

But the Grey Wardens at Adamant were successfully possessed.

We know that the Warden-Commander, Sophia Dryden, was possessed (the one who Avernus served under), although she could have become possessed after she died. That doesn't change Xil's point that the taint itself was explained by Avernus as being "alien" to spirits (demons), he implied it wasn't something they could counter, and that it has power.

[Daerog]

Spirits become demons if they are forced to act against their nature (as we saw in All New Faded for Her quest in DA:I) and if they are forcibly pulled through the Veil against their will. So i don't think there will be demons in that sense if the Veil were to come down. They are attracted to life but without the Veil i think peaceful co-existence is the norm.

Ya, I'm doubting that's the whole truth. Yes, spirits can be twisted to be demons, but that doesn't explain all demons. Who twisted the Nightmare? It's more like the Nightmare witnessed fear and decided to feed on it for a millennium because why not?

No one forced the Nightmare to go bad. If they are only roles without choice or will, then they are just tools, not people.

Even without the Veil, there will still be war and oppression and evil. There will be those who can more easily achieve godhood and impose their wills not just on people, but the material world itself. If the Blight wins, then there is nothing. So, if one will win, I guess something is better than nothing, but it seems Thedas is more prepared to face a Blight than a world without the Veil.

Perhaps the best solution is more anti-blight enchantments and a stronger Veil.

[Lulupab]

His original plan:

 

1) Have Corypheus unlock the orb. Recover it after his death.

2) Enter Fade and tear down the Veil.

3) Watch as Thedas burns in the raw chaos, then mold reality and bring back the elven civilization.

 

Not exactly, but lets say I agree. But what about mass binding of demons? Remove Corypheus from play and demons are mere mindless scrubs, not even 1/10 of a threat a blight can be.

[Steelcan]

Not exactly, but lets say I agree. But what about mass binding of demons? Remove Corypheus from play and demons are mere mindless scrubs, not even 1/10 of a threat a blight can be.

demons are not mindless if unbound, otherwise there'd be no point in Harrowings and every mage would be able to resist them

[Lulupab]

demons are not mindless if unbound, otherwise there'd be no point in Harrowings and every mage would be able to resist them

 

That was just a saying, they have minds but limited intelligence. There is a certain dialogue with Solas and Blackwall. BW asks Solas tips on defeating demons, he says survive thirty heartbeats, because if you can survive 30 seconds they would use every single tool and power in their disposal and leave nothing to surprise, concluding with the fact that majority of demons are not intelligent.

 

If Demons are released all at once they would most likely fight among each other and vie for power above everything else. They wouldn't unite to do anything at all, least of all attack a city to conquer it.

[Daerog]

To the untrained mage (and all mundanes), they will be dangerous. However, to mages, demons and spirits will be playthings... like robots in scifi, made to fulfill roles.

The threat would shift to those with the will to create/dominate and the means to do so. It would be like combining zerg and protoss in StarCraft, giving a mage full access to the Fade...

Welcome your new gods, peasants!