224 réponses à ce sujet

[Catilina]

I don't give two squirts about people not liking her any more. I find that arguing about it is like the special Olympics.

One thing that really ticks me off though is this "correct representation of X sexuality/group". In BioWare's case they should be able to write whatever character they damn well please, without people bitching "Omgz it's a false representationz" should Sera have been an elven goddess/angel hybrid with a halo on her head and an arse that smells like roses? No.

Let's face it, Sera extremely annoying. If I were a lesbian, I would be not happy that she's one option. The representation is a problem, because she is the first such character and quite a few people say is pretty awful (well-written, but terrible). It is not about to be perfect, but that is a bit more "normal". My opinion. 

[vertigomez]

Sera is kind of a discredit to the lgbtq community tbh. First lesbian choice - annoying and ignorant as hell.

Let's face it, Sera extremely annoying. If I were a lesbian, I would be not happy that she's one option. The representation is a problem, because she is the first such character and quite a few people say is pretty awful (well-written, but terrible). It is not about to be perfect, but that is a bit more "normal". My opinion.

I love the smell of subjectivity in the morning!

brb, romancing my perfect elf wife

[MileyChicken]

Let's face it, Sera extremely annoying. If I were a lesbian, I would be not happy that she's one option. The representation is a problem, because she is the first such character and quite a few people say is pretty awful (well-written, but terrible). It is not about to be perfect, but that is a bit more "normal". My opinion.

Yes, I'm well aware of the vocal group of people who get their breeches in a twist about Sera because they don't like her. She wasn't written to be liked. She's a "hate it or love it" character.

But guess what? A lot of people love her as well. Lesbians included.

Which leads me to the next point: nobody has a right to claim what a "correct" representation is, because there's no such thing. Do we sit here and pick apart whether Cullen is a "correct representation" of a hetero male? Hell, why not Corypheus too? Is he a correct "otherkin" or insert group here _____ representation?

[Catilina]

Yes, I'm well aware of the vocal group of people who get their breeches in a twist about Sera because they don't like her. She wasn't written to be liked. She's a "hate it or love it" character.

But guess what? A lot of people love her as well. Lesbians included.

Which leads me to the next point: nobody has a right to claim what a "correct" representation is, because there's no such thing. Do we sit here and pick apart whether Cullen is a "correct representation" of a hetero male? Hell, why not Corypheus too? Is he a correct "otherkin" or insert group here _____ representation?

(Corypheus is straight? I am very disappointed!)

[MileyChicken]

(Corypheus is straight? I am very disappointed!)

I thought he was a genderfluid pansexual. Imo a bad representation of one. Those poor genderfluid pansexual people are sooo discreditz. Now the pea brained masses will think they all act like that.

[LobselVith8]

Sera is kind of a discredit to the lgbtq community tbh. First lesbian choice - annoying and ignorant as hell.

 

You mean because of her racism against elves?

[Toasted Llama]

The longer I lurk the forums and read these type of threads, the worse I feel for having my main Inquisitor say 'nah thanks' to Cullen's marriage offer...

 

Anyway, OP, what you want to see are political marriages, they're not marriages for love. Inquisition's marriages are the opposite of that; your Inquisitor can marry their love interest for just that; love. If you don't romance them, you don't get to marry them, unlike Alistair and Anora, if I'm not mistaken.

 

 

Sera is kind of a discredit to the lgbtq community tbh. First lesbian choice - annoying and ignorant as hell.

 

Because every LGBT person ever is a complete saint, never has wrong opinions nor can they be bigots. That just does not happen. Ever.


IMHO Sera is a great character and a nice representation for the LGBTQ community. She's well rounded with flaws and virtues, a gifted, down to earth archer with a heart for the common folk and her own sense of humor. Obviously she's not perfect; but nobody else is either.
Some people like her, some people don't. It's almost as if people have different tastes and not everyone will be best friends forever.

[Dai Grepher]

My Cousland is King of Ferelden, thank you. And another low point about Inquisition is if you got a ring from your lover then... Solas destroys it at the end of Trespasser along with your hand.

[BansheeOwnage]

My first romance was Josie and while I'm sad that I didn't get the option to ask her, I headcanon that they married in Antiva, after Josie introduced Haya Adaar to her parents.

Josie's VA said that she (Josie) would never marry without her family being present and I have to agree, she never would. 

To echo myself, I really wish Cullen's family (and Trevelyan's invisible one?) could have been there, and the companions. I wouldn't do a marriage like the one in the game in real life, but it was the best the game offered *shrug*

 

Thanks. 

Pretty much all of my Inquisitors. She was the perfect romance for me and I was hoping to finally have the perfect ending to a romance as well, but instead got the door slammed in my face. And I just know there will never be a romance that close again. 

I know somewhat how you feel. At least about Bioware probably not making another romance I like, and one I can relate to on top of it.

 

Cassandra is just being overly entitled, which is quite frankly the typical female behavior when it comes to marriage. They will want an expensive lavish over-the-top wedding, an expensive diamond ring of some sort, a romantic engagement that fits their entitled high standards, and the groom is just a human prop / paraphernalia.

 

Oh, stop your stupid generalizing already

 

 

This is more likely to get noticed by mods than overt sexism, I know.

 

My main gripes over the marriage issue were:

 

1) Originally we were told there would be no marriage in DAI - of course technically this was true since it didn't come about until Trespasser but it was still backtracking.

 

2) Only female Inquisitors had the option of marriage with you actually seeing the ceremony.   It may have been implied with Josephine but it didn't actually happen even in the epilogue slides.   Why is it assumed that male PCs wouldn't be interested in marriage?

 

3) The awful joke that the writers pulled with Varric and Cassandra.   Was this making fun of people who want marriage in the game?   The problem for me was that it was anything but funny.   For my Dorian romance it was really disappointing to have the idea that it might be possible, have Cassandra tell me to follow my heart and then rush off to find Dorian only to discover Varric holding a farewell party for him.   For my Cassandra romance is was excruciatingly embarrassing to have her bring up the subject and when I seemed enthusiastic, have her awkwardly decline the offer (she wasn't Divine so what was the problem?).   However, the worst one was my Solas romance where I consider the marriage "joke" was downright cruel.   Vivienne and Sera were well aware that my Lavellan wasn't over him so why make Cassandra an insensitive idiot and Varric a absolute jerk for using her misery to mock Cassandra?

 

It didn't help my mood over the unnecessary "joke" when I discovered that some characters actually did get the option of marriage.    There was nothing wrong with the marriages we did get, just the way they dealt with the issue for everyone else.

1. I don't think that kind of backtracking is a bad thing. It would be like them saying there was no armour customization, then adding it in DLC. It's just a plus.

 

2. That is unfortunate. I'm not sure the reasoning was that men wouldn't be interested, I think different writers were more interested in writing it than others, and it turned out in a rather unfair way because of that. Not that that makes the outcome better.

 

3. I agree about the joke thing. As Phoray said, I originally thought it was cool since I went over to Cullen afterwards and he did propose, but it's pretty bizarrely mean for other people. But like so many Bioware things, I just can't tell if it was something they did on purpose, or them being fandom-unaware again (not realizing the impact of what they did).

 

Are you saying there can't be any lesbians who are annoying and ignorant as hell?

No, there definitely are, as I've recently discovered. It's a tricky subject for representation though. Yes, in real life people can be anything, but since the only lesbian in Dragon Age is Sera, she carries the entire burden of representation. Same with Dorian.

 

If there were as many gay people as straight in the story, one of them being an annoying ignorant person wouldn't matter, since there would be plenty of other kinds of people doing the representing. A drop in a pond. When she's the only one though, it paints a more unfortunate picture. A similar situation arises with Dorian, because of complaints he's just another gay coming-out story (with emphasis on his relationship with his father), so he doesn't add anything groundbreaking for being the first gay companion. I don't completely agree, but I see where they're coming from.

 

A similar issue is that almost all of DA's bisexual characters are promiscuous rogues, because obviously being bi is deviant. Perpetuating the more negative bi stereotypes is probably not Bioware's intention, but it's still problematic. Hopefully all of these issues begin to be addressed in the next game simply by having a varied cast.

[Gilli]

To echo myself, I really wish Cullen's family (and Trevelyan's invisible one?) could have been there, and the companions. I wouldn't do a marriage like the one in the game in real life, but it was the best the game offered

 

Yeah, that would've been nice. At least the companions being there, I mean. I get that getting a whole family (and Cullen has a big one too) to the Winter Palace could be a little difficult. (yes, there are Eluvians, but I doubt every other person could just casually use one)

 

That said, I haven't done one of the wedding romances yet, so *cough* (I romanced Josie, Cass, Solas and Dorian so far and my newest Inky will romance Blackwall, so no wedding for her either.  )

[nightscrawl]

To be fair, I don't think marriage fits all of the romances or LIs. Or at least, the way it was handled in the game doesn't allow for a more serious discussion with those certain LIs. Marriage is a very personal thing, and a complicated thing, and a couple shouldn't undertake it lightly.

 

Because of Dorian's history with being pressured on marriage, the lovely example set by his parents, and the mentality that marriage for nobility is basically a business transaction, and in Tevinter a means to an end for mage children, I don't imagine that he would look favorably on marriage, at least initially. The only positive example of marriage he's had is between Alexius and his wife. While I'm sure that was helpful, it's a heterosexual marriage, and was not without its own struggles.

 

I think he would have serious reservations and would want to mull it over for a while before agreeing.

 

That's not to say that he wouldn't appreciate a proposal, or that he would refuse a more overt gesture of commitment. But official marriage? I can see him asking, "Why?"

 

 

The only problem I have with the DAI marriages is Varric's joke on Cassandra. It's an unfortunate tease for all of those players who don't have the option.

[Ghost Gal]

So, the OP is mad that this game their Human Noble PC (like Cousland for DAO, Hawke for DA2) can no longer marry a royal companion (like King Alistair, Prince Sebastian, etc) to gain a royal title (like Prince/ss Consort of Ferelden, Princess of Starkhaven, etc)?

 

 

I actually hope they continue this trend.

[KaiserShep]

I'm going to be virtually murdered now, aren't I.

 

 

Nah, but your virtual pants might go missing. 

 

I admit I kind of enjoy how polarizing this character is. Sera is easily one of my favorite characters in the series thus far, yet she's the bane of many others' virtual existence, and I was actually very pleasantly surprised with how the whole marriage thing unfolded in Trespasser.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Sera was easily one of my least favorite companions to date. I think literally everything she said to me over the course of the game was stupid. I wondered how she would possibly stay alive on her own, because I just was never convinced she was competent enough to handle herself alone for long. I think I've never had so little respect for a companion character. That's really the best way to explain it. I've hated characters before, but there was at least something I could point to as an attribute worthy of respect. I really don't think we've ever had a companion that I thought was this stupid and childish before. I know they wanted to go for a "down to Earth" and "talks like the common people, but there's wisdom in there if you can look deeper" vibe, but I wasn't picking it up at all. Stupidity conveyed in an annoying voice with a laugh like nails on a chalkboard, that's all I got from her.

 

That being said, I didn't see her as "bad representation". Look, I get the argument that the limited representation of LGBT people means care needs to be taken to not suggest certain negative things, when for hetero characters that may easily be avoided by the fact that there's already a diverse cast of hetero characters with lots of different flaws and benefits. I agree with arguments about the "promiscuous bisexual" problem that DA has, even though I actually like promiscuous characters more than virtuous types most of the time. Sera's story was so apart from being a lesbian, though. It was MUCH more so than Dorian's. I think you would have to reach pretty deep to believe that her acting this way was in any way related to her sexuality. Sera is a pretty unique personality and I really doubt future lesbians will be just like her, or even anything like her. By all means, get pissed if they are. That would be super weird, since she's not even a stereotype of.. literally anyone. As is, she's just who she is. Like her or don't, but not everything you dislike about a minority character is always going to be a broader social issue.

[TheRatPack55]

Hmm. I'm actually fairly satisfied with the marriage options in DAI if I think about it, but that's probably because they fit well with my personal preferences.

 

I'm a fan of playing the noble Inquisitor, in the 'social standing' sense, as I feel almost every fantasy game and story seems to have the 'humble peasant/prisoner/nobody becoming the hailed hero' journey and I find playing a noble born pc quite refreshing. So for my noble Inquisitor the option to marry Cullen is fine, it's the classic 'lady and knight' ending, not that I've ever actually done that. (Nothing against Cullen, just haven't played it that way yet). Now, marrying Blackwall or Bull would be a serious misalliance, and I'm not willing to get disowned by the rest of the Trevelyan family. An illicit affair is all I can offer them. 

 

That said, in that vein I do think both Josie and Cass should have been options, and Sera is a bit of a weird choice but eh, more power to seramancers, no skin off my nose. Dorian's entire situation and the politics between Tevinter and the rest of the world are also a valid reason for why a marriage doesn't happen there imo. Solas is obvious.

 

So yeah, I'm pretty ok with this myself, tho the whole thing could have been done better, but then, what in DAI couldn't. 

[VivainaDX]

I had no problem with the Cullen marriage, not only is he a real sweetheart, I also felt it was important that that Orlesian match-maker get the message that my Inquisition members were not to be subjected to the romantic whims of the Orlesian nobility...In other words I was marking my territory and they should all back the *bleep* off.   I'm not a fan of arranged marriages, it irked me at the beginning of Trespasser, the conversation around Cullen was that he was being marked for marriage without his permission and I think that was a big part of the reason he proposed to the Inquisitor when he did and why they had such a quickie marriage. Also, I'm glad he wasn't from a noble house, it just increased his value IMO.

 

As for Sera, I love Sera and I didn't consider her ignorant at all...I had trouble understanding her way of speaking sometimes but I think she was a very deep individual who tried to cover up her emotions with open defiance and being belligerent.

[Dai Grepher]

Sera was a decent attempt at Oghren, basically.

To be fair, I don't think marriage fits all of the romances or LIs. Or at least, the way it was handled in the game doesn't allow for a more serious discussion with those certain LIs. Marriage is a very personal thing, and a complicated thing, and a couple shouldn't undertake it lightly.

Trespasser didn't allow a lot of things that it should have. Trespasser was a rush job meant to funnel everyone into a few similar positions.

The only problem I have with the DAI marriages is Varric's joke on Cassandra. It's an unfortunate tease for all of those players who don't have the option.

Varric didn't actually prank her though. I think Varric was referring to his proposal to the Inquisitor regarding Kirkwall. Cassandra simply heard "proposal" and let her own imagination carry her away.

Personally, I think the Cassandra conversation was fitting for an Inquisitor who romanced her. They hadn't seen each other for a few months while she was in the Hunterhorn Mountains and he was fixing problems near Kirkwall. So she got ahead of herself because she was excited to see him again, and ended up getting all flustered. It was cute, I'll admit. And the Inquisitor has a few choices. He can ask her to reaffirm what she said, he can laugh it off like no big deal, he can assure her that he cares deeply for her, or he can pursue the matter. In that case Cassandra realizes that marriage isn't proper at that point in time, but when he does propose to her it will be right and she will try to act surprised. So it establishes that they both want to but will give it time and let things develop more.

The downside to Cassandra's scene is that similar dialogue applies in cases of an Inquisitor romancing someone else. In these cases the conversation doesn't have any meaning. It's just Cassandra misinterpreting Varric for some strange reason. There's also no reason to get flustered after realizing she misunderstood.

[Beerfish]

Sera is the best character in the game, possibly any bioware game.

 

Common sense views including her views on how elves act in the series.

 

Is very rigid in her thinking, unlike 95% of all other BioWare characters who are supposed to be bright she does not roll over the moment the hero spouts a few things at her and totally change her mind.

 

Laughs at and pranks the overly serious characters who have major flaws in their thinking and values.

 

Readily admits she does not know a lot of things and being of a certain class and education she has trouble communicating things, but if you pay attention after a while she actually does a good job.

 

The romance option is pretty good, she takes things slower than most other Bio Characters.  (Anders, hello my name is Anders, wanna move in?)

 

Great character, great voice acting.  In my top 3-5 Bio Characters of all time.

[thats1evildude]

I like that she brings a new perspective into the series ie. the elf who does not love all things elfy, and the common people of Thedas who are scared shitless of blood magic and demons.

[Xilizhra]

I like that she brings a new perspective into the series ie. the elf who does not love all things elfy.

Ah, yes, a perspective so new that we saw it with Zevran and Fenris already. By contrast, a city elf who did love all things elfy would be a companion concept we've never seen before.

[Vanilka]

I love Sera. She had me at "Why didn't you take their weapons?" - "BECAUSE NO BREECHES! (laughs)" It made me go, "What the hell?!" but it also made me chuckle.

 

I'm not a big fan of the trashy, bathroom humour she sometimes has, but I think she's a fun, unique and refreshing character. I like that she wears her heart on her sleeve and I don't think she's nearly as crazy as the Inquisitor's dialogue options seem to suggest. Not saying I agree with her all the time, but I understand where she's coming from.

 

One of the other things I like about her is that she makes me understand the common people in Thedas - she's superstitious, she's afraid of magic, the Fade downright terrifies her, etc. She explains how the Inquisitor could be scary to many if they're a mage. The Inquisitor and most of our PCs are surrounded by exceptional and thus very often rather open-minded people that usually don't bat an eyelash as far as these things go, so it's nice to have somebody who comes from a different environment and with a different mindset. It's so easy to forget otherwise. Sera points an arrow at the Inquisitor's face, but all I see is a scared person. She can be straight up offensive talking to the Dalish Inquisitor, but I feel like it's more because she feels that her faith is being questioned and that the Herald of Andraste is not what they should be (How could Andraste's Herald believe in the elven gods and not the Maker and Andraste, right?), and that makes her feel uncomfortable. It's interesting. It's not that I like my mage Lavellan getting judged, but it brings a new perspective and new dimension to Sera's character.

 

Sera's also rather sweet if you get her trust (I love the cookie dialogue.) and she gets along with most of the companions. I like that she makes even Cassandra chuckle and the relaxed banter they have. One of my favourite parts was taking her along for In Hushed Whispers. Her going, "We fight!" when she realises that helping the Inquisitor means that the bad future never happens and she realises very well they're going to die there if they do that. She's still the one to suggest it. Her talking about how she "ran out of arrows making them pay" and how she just wanted them to hurt for killing the Inquisitor really pulled my heartstrings. Sera is a good person. Flawed, a bit childish, somewhat narrow-minded? Sure. But also a good person that cares about many things, a little bit of sunshine to all that grim business, and a great, well-written character.

 

Plus, I think her speech pattern is brilliant. As somebody who speaks English as her second language, I do have trouble to understand sometimes. However, I think it's something that makes her very unique. I tend to notice these things. It's one of the things that piqued my interest about Daveth in Origins, as well. It's something that makes a character more fun to me. A lot of characters just talk formally or fairly formally or somewhat casually but with nothing too surprising there. Then there's Sera with her crazy big mouth and that's just so cool.

 

Either way, I think the fact she has an option to marry is adorable. She's one of the romance options I'm very interested in but haven't tried... just yet. I'm going to make a big, strong qunari lady for her. She's going to carry her over the doorstep, one arm or whatever.

 

 

However, I get that we all have different tastes and all. It's just that I see so much dislike for Sera and I guess I felt like saying something.

[Dai Grepher]

Ah, yes, a perspective so new that we saw it with Zevran and Fenris already. By contrast, a city elf who did love all things elfy would be a companion concept we've never seen before.

Here's to Amethyne in DA4.

[Beerfish]

Ah, yes, a perspective so new that we saw it with Zevran and Fenris already. By contrast, a city elf who did love all things elfy would be a companion concept we've never seen before.

Eh?  I certainly don't relate either of those two characters having the same type of values overall as Sera.  Zevran really didn't really care about anything other than his sex life and being an assassin and Fenris was a mage hater more than anything.

 

Also would you not put Shianni in that category?  Or do you mean someone that loves all things city elf and all things dalish?

[Xilizhra]

Eh?  I certainly don't relate either of those two characters having the same type of values overall as Sera.  Zevran really didn't really care about anything other than his sex life and being an assassin and Fenris was a mage hater more than anything.

They were different characters, but certainly fell into the category of "elf who does not love all things elfy."

[thats1evildude]

Ah, yes, a perspective so new that we saw it with Zevran and Fenris already. By contrast, a city elf who did love all things elfy would be a companion concept we've never seen before.

 

Zevran and Fenris are pretty lukewarm on the subject. Zevran is more at home at the city, but has a certain respect for the Dalish. Fenris isn't keen on elven culture, but he doesn't actively despise them either. Contrast that with Merrill or Velanna or even Ariane.

 

We're at an interesting point now with elven characters, actually. Anyone who holds reverence for the Creators will now come off as delusional, given that the majority of myths about them are falsehoods and they were not gods or even benevolent rulers.