224 réponses à ce sujet

[vertigomez]

It made no sense to me that Hawke and Merrill wouldn't stay together, although one thing I liked was Merrill's depression and her restlessness in the Hawke mansion. I liked that not everything was smooth sailing, but I didn't like that there was no way to really keep the two together. At least it made more sense for Merrill and Hawke to (kinda) break up, than it did for Hawke and Fenris, or Hawke and Isabela.

Hawke and their LI never broke up (unless you broke up with them mid-game or something). They were temporarily, physically separated... but that's not at all the same thing.

[LobselVith8]

It made no sense to me that Hawke and Merrill wouldn't stay together, although one thing I liked was Merrill's depression and her restlessness in the Hawke mansion. I liked that not everything was smooth sailing, but I didn't like that there was no way to really keep the two together. At least it made more sense for Merrill and Hawke to (kinda) break up, than it did for Hawke and Fenris, or Hawke and Isabela.

 

Admittedly, this would be an interesting interpretation on their relationship when you consider Inquisition Hawke's negative views on blood magic while Merrill is a blood mage. It could help soften the impact for those of us who chose to have Hawke make the ultimate sacrifice to put an end to Nightmare - in terms of our 'own story' (the  narrative 'between the pages' so to speak).

[Catilina]

I guess it is relevant because Ander's betrayal is what both ends his romance and makes a marriage to him impossible. That betrayal must sting for those who romanced him, though I never did as I couldn't stand him, just as I can't stand idealogues who never shut up about this injustice or that in real life. Beyond that, he was pushy, even when you weren't interested in him. IMO DA2 has the worst characters, and the worst romances. 

My favorite romances in DA series are Anders and Fenris. And I like all DA2 characters and the story too.

In my scenario Hawke happy with his LI, this is the only thing, that remain his.

I do not felt, that Anders betrayed Hawke, just wanted to save him from the self-accusation, and this is important: he said, that the mage issues will be always at first place in his life, because of Justice. This is why the close friendship are the only chance for the happy end with Anders. My Hawke agree with his goals so was not too hard to support him and to live in exile with him. They not married, but I satisfied with this romance.

[nightscrawl]

Hawke and their LI never broke up (unless you broke up with them mid-game or something). They were temporarily, physically separated... but that's not at all the same thing.

Yeah... I don't know how someone can get that Hawke and Fenris (the only one I've imported and seen in DAI) are broken up from "Fenris would have killed himself to protect me. I didn't want to give him that chance."** Also, if Hawke dies, Varric mentions that he's going to have to write Fenris and that it's not going to be a pleasant experience. I thought the one-liners concerning each LI were decent and seemed to be crafted around that LI's personality, rather than how Hawke (or their player) views the relationship, because obviously that can't be taken into consideration with BioHawke in DAI since they're no longer "ours."

 

In fact, ALL of the romances where the couple are officially together at the end of their respective game seem to be still "together," even if not in a physical sense; the relationship is still on going.

 

 

** I play a femHawke, but man, I have a sudden urge to hear Nicholas Boulton say that.

[EIVIE]

 

My favorite romances in DA series are Anders and Fenris. And I like all DA2 characters and the story too.

In my scenario Hawke happy with his LI, this is the only thing, that remain his.

I do not felt, that Anders betrayed Hawke, just wanted to save him from the self-accusation, and this is important: he said, that the mage issues will be always at first place in his life, because of Justice. This is why the close friendship are the only chance for the happy end with Anders. My Hawke agree with his goals so was not too hard to support him and to live in exile with him. They not married, but I satisfied with this romance.

 

 

You must be blind. Anders even admits that he'll kill you if that helped the cause to free mages.

"There is no one in Kirkwall I wouldn't kill to see the mages free", how can you love a character that wants to kill you? same goes for solasmancers.

[Catilina]

Admittedly, this would be an interesting interpretation on their relationship when you consider Inquisition Hawke's negative views on blood magic while Merrill is a blood mage. It could help soften the impact for those of us who chose to have Hawke make the ultimate sacrifice to put an end to Nightmare - in terms of our 'own story' (the  narrative 'between the pages' so to speak).

I think s/he worries for her, if s/he love her, do not want to die because she know the blood magic, rather want to protect her.

(I have blood mage Hawke, very stupid thing, that we have no extra dialogue option, if the blood magic useable for the PC...)

[Catilina]

You must be blind. Anders even admits that he'll kill you if that helped the cause to free mages.

"There is no one in Kirkwall I wouldn't kill to see the mages free", how can you love a character that wants to kill you? same goes for solasmancers.

As Hawke said the in the Legacy: Nobody's perfect...

[Steelcan]

You must be blind. Anders even admits that he'll kill you if that helped the cause to free mages.

"There is no one in Kirkwall I wouldn't kill to see the mages free", how can you love a character that wants to kill you? same goes for solasmancers.

why would Anders want to kill Hawke?

 

He's not out gunning to murder Hawke

[Nocte ad Mortem]

You must be blind. Anders even admits that he'll kill you if that helped the cause to free mages.

"There is no one in Kirkwall I wouldn't kill to see the mages free", how can you love a character that wants to kill you? same goes for solasmancers.

 

I never expect blind loyalty from characters just because I'm the protagonist. If I completely go against the character's most deeply help beliefs, why would I expect they wouldn't act against me? I feel like some people expect their PCs to be treated with godhood levels of unwavering faith and loyalty, rather than treating characters like their own people, with their own goals and beliefs that won't always conform to your's. Anders doesn't "want to kill me", he's willing to do anything he has to do to see through a cause that he sees as being bigger than himself. My Hawke was dedicated to fighting for mage freedom, just like Anders was. There was no need for this to be a problem, because Anders should know that Hawke as I played him would die for the freedom of others willingly, if that was the only remaining option. It's only a problem if your views clash on this issue.

[Catilina]

why would Anders want to kill Hawke?

 

He's not out gunning to murder Hawke

Because of Justice (and his belief)... but I think this would kill him too. 

[EIVIE]

I never expect blind loyalty from characters just because I'm the protagonist. If I completely go against the character's most deeply help beliefs, why would I expect they wouldn't act against me? I feel like some people expect their PCs to be treated with godhood levels of unwavering faith and loyalty, rather than treating characters like their own people, with their own goals and beliefs that won't always conform to your's. Anders doesn't "want to kill me", he's willing to do anything he has to do to see through a cause that he sees as being bigger than himself. My Hawke was dedicated to fighting for mage freedom, just like Anders was. There was no need for this to be a problem, because Anders should know that Hawke as I played him would die for the freedom of others willingly, if that was the only remaining option. It's only a problem if your views clash on this issue.

 

Get a psychologist to your Hawke.

 

why would Anders want to kill Hawke?

 

He's not out gunning to murder Hawke

 

 

Because he is an abomination, and abominations are crazy.

[Catilina]

Get a psychologist to your Hawke.

 

Because he is an abomination, and abominations are crazy.

No, our Hawkes are totally normal, I think. (If there are totally normal people.)

No. He may kill even Hawke too not because he is a crazy abomination, rather because Justice and his belief requires that. 

[EIVIE]

 

No, our Hawkes are totally normal, I think. (If there are totally normal people.)

No. He may kill even Hawke too not because he is a crazy abomination, rather because Justice and his belief requires that. 

 

 

As he killed that girl for calling him demon in Act 2?

[Catilina]

As he killed that girl for calling him demon in Act 2?

He don't killed Ella... because of Hawke.

[EIVIE]

He don't killed Ella... because of Hawke.

 

If you don't intervene he kills Ella, so in order to stop Anders from killing everyone Hawke needs to be his babysitter?, is easier just kill him.

[Catilina]

If you don't intervene he kills Ella, so in order to stop Anders from killing everyone Hawke needs to be his babysitter?, is easier just kill him.

Then let's do it. Your choice. And yes. My Hawke will protect him, because love him. 

[GoldenGail3]

Then let's do it. Your choice. And yes. My Hawke will protect him, because love him. 

My Hawke on the otherhand feels like Anders is a bro, but eh, my Fem Hawke would feel the same way though.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I think it's something of a misunderstanding that "Anders" can kill Ella. Justice can kill Ella. It's Justice that's in control of the body when this happens. Hawke's intervention actually helps Anders to take back control of the situation. I think it's fairly safe to assume that Anders would not have killed Ella for calling Justice a demon. The issue is whether or not you can help Anders to moderate Justice. 

 

Bonding with Spirits isn't something people in Andrastrian society understand much. The problem for Anders with Justice is that the society he lives in is ignorant concerning such things and, as much as I like Anders as a character, he's also sadly ignorant about it. I was especially disappointed in a lot of his party banter with Merrill, when he shows his Andrastrian upbringing and Circle education has stilted his views in a lot of ways. What my hope would be is that Anders and Hawke will eventually seek help from those that better understand Anders's situation. It's talked about that Rivain has much more experience and understanding of such things, and I think that would be a great place for Anders to seek help. I think it's true that Anders needs to learn more about what it means to be bonded with Justice and how both can moderate their personalities, but this doesn't have to require their death and it doesn't nullify everything they're trying to do for the betterment of mages. That he has flaws doesn't mean he's wrong in what he's trying to do.

[EIVIE]

I think it's something of a misunderstanding that "Anders" can kill Ella. Justice can kill Ella. It's Justice that's in control of the body when this happens. Hawke's intervention actually helps Anders to take back control of the situation. I think it's fairly safe to assume that Anders would not have killed Ella for calling Justice a demon. The issue is whether or not you can help Anders to moderate Justice. 

 

Bonding with Spirits isn't something people in Andrastrian society understand much. The problem for Anders with Justice is that the society he lives in is ignorant concerning such things and, as much as I like Anders as a character, he's also sadly ignorant about it. I was especially disappointed in a lot of his party banter with Merrill, when he shows his Andrastrian upbringing and Circle education has stilted his views in a lot of ways. What my hope would be is that Anders and Hawke will eventually seek help from those that better understand Anders's situation. It's talked about that Rivain has much more experience and understanding of such things, and I think that would be a great place for Anders to seek help. I think it's true that Anders needs to learn more about what it means to be bonded with Justice and how both can moderate their personalities, but this doesn't have to require their death and it doesn't nullify everything they're trying to do for the betterment of mages. That he has flaws doesn't mean he's wrong in what he's trying to do.

 

Anders says the whole game that Justice and him are one, that they are merged, true, sometimes Justice took totally control of his body, but we all got to remember that all of this was Anders fault, he let a spirit enter in his body, but of course the stupid is "Merrill" for using blood magic.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Anders says the whole game that Justice and him are one, that they are merged, true, sometimes Justice took totally control of his body, but we all got to remember that all of this was Anders fault, he let a spirit enter in his body, but of course the stupid is "Merrill" for using blood magic.

Like I said, Anders doesn't understand the process. It's pretty clear that they haven't merged, and that may not even be possible. They emerge as two distinct personalities often. Anders is influenced by his Circle training, which is tainted with Chantry bias. Andrastrian society is, to be blunt, extremely stupid when it comes to anything magical. He doesn't understand Spirits. That's clear from his commentary vs everything we've learned in DA:I and the extended universe. I don't think Merrill was stupid, I think she understood Spirits a lot more than he did. Still, there's solutions for this other than just "Justice and Anders die" and it doesn't nullify the good they were doing. Anders isn't perfect, but that doesn't mean he's necessarily deserving of death. 

[Biotic Apostate]

Get a psychologist to your Hawke.

Or maybe me and other people, who enjoy the romance, will continue doing so, and not listen to what some random person tells me is acceptable to like.

 

Especially since your interpretation is not supported by the game - in the rivalry route Hawke opposes what Anders is doing throughout the entire game, and Anders ends up committing suicide, not killing Hawke. People have world states, with Hawke and Anders in a happy relationship, and your angry posting is doing little to change that.

[Xilizhra]

While I suspect that we might have run out of things to discuss regarding marriage per se, it might be nice to give it another try.

[Steelcan]

[Catilina]

Anders says the whole game that Justice and him are one, that they are merged, true, sometimes Justice took totally control of his body, but we all got to remember that all of this was Anders fault, he let a spirit enter in his body, but of course the stupid is "Merrill" for using blood magic.

Anders know who (what) he is. This is precisely the reason why he hates so much the blood magic. He fused with a friendly spirit, who became dangerous. What can make an inherently malicious demon with a mage, if he can't control Justice, when he become angry... 

His concern is not hypocrisy, rather legitimate fear. I think. (True, he not the kindest way expresses this fear.)

[vertigomez]

While I suspect that we might have run out of things to discuss regarding marriage per se, it might be nice to give it another try.

It's interesting that there's been a progression... in DAO, marrying Alistair or Anora (or getting a proposal from Zev) were all really dialogue options. Marrying Seb in DA2, there's some banter and he's a companion, so you can drag your husbando on adventures. Finally in DAI there are (admittedly sparse) wedding scenes, though only with Cullen do you see the actual marriage ceremony. Sera has banter though.

Perhaps DA4 will make an even bigger deal of it?

I'm highly suspicious of this on-topic post. What's your game.