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[TheRatPack55]

Sort of a subject shift, but what does Hawke say about where a romanced Anders is when the Inquisitor asks about him? Or just anything about Anders, really. My import has a dead Anders and a Hawke that did not agree, but I don't really like what Hawke says in that instance. I think she called him crazy, or insane, or something, which I didn't care for. Also there was one line where Hawke said, "I don't think there ever was just an Anders." I was kinda like, Uh... yeah, that's really the whole point. I didn't see the point of that redundant statement. If you had played DA2, it's lame, and if you were ignorant about DA2, it makes no sense since it's not qualified with anything.
 

*snip*

 

I think that the greater part of this should be left to headcanon. It is easier to headcanon that something happened, especially post-game, than headcanon that something did not happen.

 

Something along the lines of "He is complicated, he's not just a hero or a monster, perhaps he's both." heavily paraphrased cause I can't remember all that well, even though I pretty much always have a pro-Anders Hawke imported. Except when I intend to leave them you-know-where... 

 

Anyway, I'm starting to think those two possible marriages in DAI were a mistake after all, cause now everyone else who wanted it for their specific LIs feels cheated. Maybe they should have had a line of dialog that suggests marriage in the future, as Gaider suggested, and left it at that.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Sort of a subject shift, but what does Hawke say about where a romanced Anders is when the Inquisitor asks about him? Or just anything about Anders, really. My import has a dead Anders and a Hawke that did not agree, but I don't really like what Hawke says in that instance. I think she called him crazy, or insane, or something, which I didn't care for. Also there was one line where Hawke said, "I don't think there ever was just an Anders." I was kinda like, Uh... yeah, that's really the whole point. I didn't see the point of that redundant statement. If you had played DA2, it's lame, and if you were ignorant about DA2, it makes no sense since it's not qualified with anything.

 

When asked where he's been, Hawke says they heard an Exalted March might be coming to Kirkwall to stop the Mage Rebellion, so he and Anders left to protect Kirkwall and divide the Chantry forces looking for them. He says all the Circles were rebelling by then and he and Anders "helped some along". When asked what Anders was like, he says he was "complicated" and "not just a monster or a hero", and that he was trying to change the world, but knew it couldn't be done peacefully. When you say you heard he had family and friends in Kirkwall, he says he "never likes to leave Anders alone for long", but then he talks about how Corypheus took control of him, as a Grey Warden, before. So, he didn't think it was safe for him to come for this. If Hawke is the one to stay behind, their last line is, "Sorry, Anders."

 

On the marriage topic, I think that characters should be free to decline marriage and you should be free to decide if you want to go on with the relationship after that. I just think it's poorly executed to have a scene for everyone where you say you've been thinking about asking, and then only put the option there for some people. Having only some LIs bring it up makes sense, but it doesn't, imo, make sense to only let the Inquisitor bring it up with some people.

[nightscrawl]

Anyway, I'm starting to think those two possible marriages in DAI were a mistake after all, cause now everyone else who wanted it for their specific LIs feels cheated. Maybe they should have had a line of dialog that suggests marriage in the future, as Gaider suggested, and left it at that.

On the marriage topic, I think that characters should be free to decline marriage and you should be free to decide if you want to go on with the relationship after that. I just think it's poorly executed to have a scene for everyone where you say you've been thinking about asking, and then only put the option there for some people. Having only some LIs bring it up makes sense, but it doesn't, imo, make sense to only let the Inquisitor bring it up with some people.

Meh, not everyone feels cheated. Even if marriage were something I was going to headcanon for my Dorian romance, I would prefer to do it in my own way, according to my Inquisitor's personality and the mental image I have for their relationship, which is not always portrayed in the game itself. That's not to say I would have turned down the opportunity to watch that in the game, I certainly would not, but neither do I have a problem with using headcanon to have certain moments. After all, almost the entire relationship is based around headcanon, and is for every single player, unless you're happy with only knowing your partner after having spent the equivalent of a dozen hours with them (what a whirlwind romance!) There is very limited romance content in these games, but a relationship is so much more than we see, and this is where headcanon can serve to fill in those blanks.

 

 

In the end, I will say that I am happy for those people that are happy with their marriages. I do think it was a nice addition for the epilogue DLC, even if it was poorly executed with regard to every other LI option.

 

That whole Cassandra joke just sucks.

[Biotic Apostate]

Sort of a subject shift, but what does Hawke say about where a romanced Anders is when the Inquisitor asks about him? Or just anything about Anders, really. My import has a dead Anders and a Hawke that did not agree, but I don't really like what Hawke says in that instance. I think she called him crazy, or insane, or something, which I didn't care for. Also there was one line where Hawke said, "I don't think there ever was just an Anders." I was kinda like, Uh... yeah, that's really the whole point. I didn't see the point of that redundant statement. If you had played DA2, it's lame, and if you were ignorant about DA2, it makes no sense since it's not qualified with anything.

In an alive and supported version Hawke says Anders is "Complicated. It’s not like the minstrels make it out to be. He’s not just a monster, or a hero, or perhaps he’s both. He was trying to change the world. He knew it couldn’t happen peacefully."

Edit:  'd twice

 

BW eliminated auto dialogue from Inquisition, because people wanted to have control over their character, and then they brought Hawke back as an NPC. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say they were satisfied with Hawke's options. Bringing back the PC and having them say something conflicting, with what players would have chosen, was a mistake.

 

Concerning "that dwweam within a dwweam," I think we need a game with a longer timeframe for marriage to make sense. In most cases it's better left to the Happily Ever After™ part, as Gaider said, especially since there are so many RP options to consider, that many people will be disappointed no matter what. And I agree than not every character should be written as a marriage option, because some just don't mesh well with that.

[vertigomez]

I think a noble Trevelyan can raise this issue with Sera, but Sera being Sera, she dismisses it as unimportant.

FWIW an Inquisitor of any background can say that marriage is about titles, so I think it's a common sentiment. But as Sera says, "I don't want their thing. I want ours."

  

 
BW eliminated auto dialogue from Inquisition, because people wanted to have control over their character, and then they brought Hawke back as an NPC. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say they were satisfied with Hawke's options. Bringing back the PC and having them say something conflicting, with what players would have chosen, was a mistake.

I was, but only because I agreed with everything he said. I sympathize with players who weren't satisfied or felt that their Hawke was OOC.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I thought the romance lines from Hawke were basically fine, but most of his commentary during the quest was way off for me. I wouldn't have taken those harsh lines about the Grey Wardens, considering my brother is one. I would think that would be a pretty common world state, which makes it a bit odd to me that they'd have Hawke totally trash Wardens and call for them to be disband when that would surely effect Carver. Then there was all the "baah, blood magic" lines when I was totally supportive of Merrill's use of blood magic and always only thought that using sacrifices was wrong. My Hawke had similar beliefs about blood magic as Merrill and Dorian, that using blood isn't an issue, it's just hurting innocent people to use their blood that's the problem. 

 

Overall, I would really rather they didn't have quests like this involving old PCs. I'd rather PCs just retired and went mostly out of the picture after their game was done. Maybe they could try to move the plot enough that old PCs are made fairly irrelevant. I'm already not thrilled with the idea that the Inquisitor might be going to Tevinter.

[nightscrawl]

FWIW an Inquisitor of any background can say that marriage is about titles, so I think it's a common sentiment. But as Sera says, "I don't want their thing. I want ours."

Ah, that's right, I had heard that before. That's pretty sweet.
 

I was, but only because I agreed with everything he said. I sympathize with players who weren't satisfied or felt that their Hawke was OOC.

I agreed with the actual words and sentiment of most everything Hawke said. My Hawke was also anti- blood magic and a goody-goody, but even I thought it was a bit much in some cases, particularly the harping on about the Wardens in the middle of the damn Fade.

[jlb524]

My first Hawke import was a blood mage who romanced Merrill.  Her brother was a Grey Warden and she respected what they had to do.

 

It was all weird.

 

I wanted Varric to say, "Go home Hawke, you're drunk."

[Catilina]

Sort of a subject shift, but what does Hawke say about where a romanced Anders is when the Inquisitor asks about him? Or just anything about Anders, really. My import has a dead Anders and a Hawke that did not agree, but I don't really like what Hawke says in that instance. I think she called him crazy, or insane, or something, which I didn't care for. Also there was one line where Hawke said, "I don't think there ever was just an Anders." I was kinda like, Uh... yeah, that's really the whole point. I didn't see the point of that redundant statement. If you had played DA2, it's lame, and if you were ignorant about DA2, it makes no sense since it's not qualified with anything.

 

Something along the lines of "He is complicated, he's not just a hero or a monster, perhaps he's both." heavily paraphrased cause I can't remember all that well, even though I pretty much always have a pro-Anders Hawke imported. Except when I intend to leave them you-know-where... 

 

Anyway, I'm starting to think those two possible marriages in DAI were a mistake after all, cause now everyone else who wanted it for their specific LIs feels cheated. Maybe they should have had a line of dialog that suggests marriage in the future, as Gaider suggested, and left it at that.

 

I have a world, where my Hawke (Fenris [rival]romanced) was Anders' close friend, and absolutely supported him (this is exact quote, but sorry, I'm, lazy to typing...)

Spoiler

 

 

I think, Anders romanced Hawke will say same thing about Anders, I just now started his world.

(Hawke did not say too much about his/her love – about Fenris for example only this:  "Fenris would have killed himself to protect me. I didn't want to give him that chance", no more.)

Edit:

Oops, sorry, i see, this already was here...

 Biotic Apostate:

 

In an alive and supported version Hawke says Anders is "Complicated. It’s not like the minstrels make it out to be. He’s not just a monster, or a hero, or perhaps he’s both. He was trying to change the world. He knew it couldn’t happen peacefully."

Edit: 'd twice

Modifié par Catilina, 10 juillet 2016 - 04:06 .

[Catilina]

My first Hawke import was a blood mage who romanced Merrill.  Her brother was a Grey Warden and she respected what they had to do.

 

It was all weird.

 

I wanted Varric to say, "Go home Hawke, you're drunk."

(Same here, with Fenris romance... This blood magic issues was weird in the DA2 too. Nor Fenris, nor Anders do not have a word, about Hawke's blood magic... Really would be good some extra dialogue for blood mage Hawke, or some weakness: for example if s/he use blood magic too much in a fight, s/he would have a chance to lost the control over him/herself for a time. Or something. Sorry for off... And the InquisitionHawke was disappointing.)

[TheRatPack55]

(Same here, with Fenris romance... This blood magic issues was weird in the DA2 too. Nor Fenris, nor Anders do not have a word, about Hawke's blood magic... Really would be good some extra dialogue for blood mage Hawke, or some weakness: for example if s/he use blood magic too much in a fight, he would have a chance to lost the control over him/herself for a time. Or something. Sorry for off... And the InquisitionHawke was disappointing.)

 

Yeah, it was pretty awkward how nobody had a word to say regarding my Hawke blatantly blood-magicking his way through Kirkwall... Reminds me of this comic I drew on the subject all those years ago. 

 

Spoiler

[Catilina]

Yeah, it was pretty awkward how nobody had a word to say regarding my Hawke blatantly blood-magicking his way through Kirkwall... Reminds me of this comic I drew on the subject all those years ago. 

 

Spoiler

(Yes, this comic is funny, and reflects this absurdity.   Well ... My Hawke never used the Sacrifice, and do not have Grim Sacrifice... because there are some moral limits: it was his. )

[fdrty]

FWIW an Inquisitor of any background can say that marriage is about titles, so I think it's a common sentiment. But as Sera says, "I don't want their thing. I want ours.".

 

 

I guess what disappointed me about my romance with Cass was you couldn't really have that discussion. I mean, you could hear her views, but you couldn't persuade her In most relationship, where person A wants X and person B wants Y, you discuss things and reach some sort of compromise. But in the game, many people's decisions are set in stone, and there's no way to sway them. And marriage completely makes sense in Cassandra's romance because the beginning of the romance is all about her obsession with both erotic and chivalric literature - she idolizes the exact kind of relationship in which marriage is the end goal. Yet, when she can have that, she doesn't want it because... reasons.

 

And given that Leliana as divine legalizes marriage for chantry personnel, it's something that we know Divines can do.

 

My first Hawke import was a blood mage who romanced Merrill.  Her brother was a Grey Warden and she respected what they had to do.

 

It was all weird.

 

I wanted Varric to say, "Go home Hawke, you're drunk."

 

What's weird about Hawke is, for me, he never felt like my character the same way the Warden or Inquisitor did. Maybe it's because he had a set backstory, maybe it's because you couldn't pick his race, maybe because DA2 didn't have as many dialogue options as Inq or DAO. Maybe the 3 act structure made the whole thing feel more cinematic, and less fluid. 

 

In my first Inq playthrough, I liked his lines about Merrill, but I would have liked to see Hawke with his SO at least once in inquisition, to really see how their relationship is down the line - but I guess, given the number of possible romance options, you couldn't really get all the voice actors, and make new character models etc. It would have been a lot of work and a lot of money for one or two little scenes (though you could have brought them into multiplayer like they did Isabella).

 

What would really have been an emotional moment is, if you sacrifice Hawke to escape the fade, having to break the news to his/her SO. That would have been heartbreaking Or, watching the couple reunite could have been heartwarming (because, let's be real, there's no way I'm picking Stroud over Hawke).

[Catilina]

[...]

 

What's weird about Hawke is, for me, he never felt like my character the same way the Warden or Inquisitor did. Maybe it's because he had a set backstory, maybe it's because you couldn't pick his race, maybe because DA2 didn't have as many dialogue options as Inq or DAO. Maybe the 3 act structure made the whole thing feel more cinematic, and less fluid. 

 

In my first Inq playthrough, I liked his lines about Merrill, but I would have liked to see Hawke with his SO at least once in inquisition, to really see how their relationship is down the line - but I guess, given the number of possible romance options, you couldn't really get all the voice actors, and make new character models etc. It would have been a lot of work and a lot of money for one or two little scenes (though you could have brought them into multiplayer like they did Isabella).

 

What would really have been an emotional moment is, if you sacrifice Hawke to escape the fade, having to break the news to his/her SO. That would have been heartbreaking Or, watching the couple reunite could have been heartwarming (because, let's be real, there's no way I'm picking Stroud over Hawke).

I do not need lachrymose reunite scenes (perhaps would be good, but just let's see Hawke's cameo: was disappointing, I afraid, Anders'/Fenris'/Merril's/Isabela's cameo would be similar...), good enough to know, Hawke going back to Anders/Fenris. Poor Stroud not too significant for me, and Loghain long ago deserved his destiny. Happy end for Hawke, too much sh!t happened to him. I do not want more tragedy. 

[fdrty]

I do not need lacrymose reunite scenes, good enough to know, Hawke going back to Anders/Fenris. Poor Stroud not too significant for me, and Loghain long ago deserved his destiny. Happy end for Hawke, too much sh!t happened to him. I do not want more tragedy. 

 

But Dragon Age is, at least, a tragic universe. Both our world and Thedas are not sunshine and rainbows: bad things happen, bad things happen to good people, even when those good people do all the right things. I like the tragedy. It would force players to confront their choice - and worse, may make them have to explain it. Inquisition is a game full of choices, but we rarely see the negative effects of those choices, we don't have to face the widows and widowers and orphans left behind due to our actions, which makes those actions easier.

 

Bioware is all about the fan service when it comes to characters from previous games. I find it odd that you can see all your past romances in Mass Effect, but not Dragon Age, though ME has 1 protagonist across all 3 games, so it is perhaps more logical and easier in those cases.

 

I'd argue that you're being a,little harsh on Loghain, given his history and the wars he had to fight I can understand why he did what he did, and he isn't the villain he presents himself as. In any case, his death is either redemptive, or karmic.

[The Elder King]

I doubt marriages will have a bigger role in DA games in the future, at last in the main ones. Even then it's unlikely Bioware will make all LI with the option of marriage, so it'll lead to some people being disappointed that their LI don't have that option.
It doesn't matter much to me, though the option is welcomed for creating and roleplaying different characters. My favourite romance is still DR Morrigan considering all the parts (DAO-WH-DAI informations).

[Catilina]

[...]

I'd argue that you're being a,little harsh on Loghain, given his history and the wars he had to fight I can understand why he did what he did, and he isn't the villain he presents himself as. In any case, his death is either redemptive, or karmic.

(Loghain a slave-trader. These things can not be explained by patriotism or some "greater good". It can be forgive. He can receive redemption as well. But there is no excuse.)

[Catilina]

I doubt marriages will have a bigger role in DA games in the future, at last in the main ones. Even then it's unlikely Bioware will make all LI with the option of marriage, so it'll lead to some people being disappointed that their LI don't have that option.
It doesn't matter much to me, though the option is welcomed for creating and roleplaying different characters. My favourite romance is still DR Morrigan considering all the parts (DAO-WH-DAI informations).

Of course, in the case of Morrigan it was absolutely right that there is no marriage. This is not a problem, I think. The wedding is a fun extra option. Unfortunately, for too few characters (in the Inquisition only female, and in Origins only noble human), and this is what makes many are disappointed. Plus the end of some romances.

[fdrty]

(Loghain a slave-trader. These things can not be explained bí patriotism or some "greater good". It can be forgive. He can receive redemption as well. But there is no excuse.)

 

With the alienage? Wasn't that done to prevent an opportunistic Tevinter invasion? Selling slaves to ensure peace is questionable, maybe wrong, but not irredeemable, in my opinion. Or is Tyrion irredeemable in Game of thrones for doing the same thing?

 

Or maybe I'm making too many excuses for him.. I don't know. People forgave Jorah Mormont in Game of Thrones and he sold slaves. Loghain is hardly alone in his disdain for the elves.

 

Also, I do find it odd that you find Loghain's actions irredeemable, but not Anders. But I don't want to reopen that can of worms, so let's leave that argument for another time.

[Catilina]

With the alienage? Wasn't that done to prevent an opportunistic Tevinter invasion? Selling slaves to ensure peace is questionable, maybe wrong, but not irredeemable, in my opinion. Or is Tyrion irredeemable in Game of thrones for doing the same thing?

 

Or maybe I'm making too many excuses for him.. I don't know. People forgave Jorah Mormont in Game of Thrones and he sold slaves. Loghain is hardly alone in his disdain for the elves.

 

Also, I do find it odd that you find Loghain's actions irredeemable, but not Anders. But I don't want to reopen that can of worms, so let's leave that argument for another time.

Okay, I can listed:

 

Loghain:

betrayal (as explained by rational choice)

attempted murder (arl Eamon, Warden, Alistair)

murder (Circle by Uldred)

eliminating the Grey Wardens at the Blight

slave-trading (no, this is not explained – forgivable [almost all forgivable], but not can be explained)

 

And we speak not about forgiving, rather: who will left in the Fade, and who will alive (ofc, Hawke have better chance in the Fade, but I dont want to risk for a criminal). This is cruel punishment? Not. This is a decision. Not easy. I dont like to kill Loghain. (And I dont like to kill Anders.)

 

Anders:

blew the Chantry.

 

But we dont speak about Anders, we speak about HAWKE.

 

(By the way, do you think that is right thing for protect a country from a possible attack, if you to sell its citizens to slaves?)

[TheRatPack55]

Ugh, I just went through that fade section of DAI and this save had the exact Hawke I pictured in that above comic... Needless to say, his ranting about blood magic was as out of place as possible. The only way I could not roll my eyes until they were spinning was by headcanoning it as Hawke covering his behind and pulling a "blood magic? I hate blood magic! It is totally the worst! Who even does that! Definitely not me!" schtick. 

 

Oh, and I admit I rather like Loghain. In the keep state where I knew he'd be the warden contact I specifically picked a Sebastian-mancing pro Templar Hawke so I could leave her in the fade without much regret. I also enjoyed how Loghain seemed actually pleased at coming out of that one alive, the man deserves a break in my book. Plus he's my warden's dad in law, I couldn't kill him off. (Guess this fact is the only reference to marriage of any kind in this post, sorry!  )

[fhs33721]

With the alienage? Wasn't that done to prevent an opportunistic Tevinter invasion? Selling slaves to ensure peace is questionable, maybe wrong, but not irredeemable, in my opinion. Or is Tyrion irredeemable in Game of thrones for doing the same thing?

? No. He and Arl Howe themselves invited the Tevinter slavers an sold them the Alienage elves in order to make money, which they then used for the ongoing war. Loghains justification for that was baasically: "Well the Alienage was a mess and It would probably have been destroyed during the blight anyway so I allowed the people there to be sold into slavery because they are better of as Tevinter slaves than there. Lol."

[Catilina]

Ugh, I just went through that fade section of DAI and this save had the exact Hawke I pictured in that above comic... Needless to say, his ranting about blood magic was as out of place as possible. The only way I could not roll my eyes until they were spinning was by headcanoning it as Hawke covering his behind and pulling a "blood magic? I hate blood magic! It is totally the worst! Who even does that! Definitely not me!" schtick. 

 

Oh, and I admit I rather like Loghain. In the keep state where I knew he'd be the warden contact I specifically picked a Sebastian-mancing pro Templar Hawke so I could leave her in the fade without much regret. I also enjoyed how Loghain seemed actually pleased at coming out of that one alive, the man deserves a break in my book. Plus he's my warden's dad in law, I couldn't kill him off. (Guess this fact is the only reference to marriage of any kind in this post, sorry!  )

Yes, my Cousland warden also "Loghain's son"... but my warden married with Anora just for the throne (and ofc, for some noble revenge...), then I can't call this real family relation (and poor Zevran...). Loghain's life was weddig gift, and only a delayed execution.

 

And my Hawke have happy love relationship, ergo he have no reason to die...  (Ugh, Sebastian! Maybe I would be able to left in Fade my Hawke if married with Sebastian....)

 

I can explain my Hawke's loathing against blood mages: he (as most blood mages...) is a self-confident man, who know, he can control the blood magic, but as always saw, another mages not. Simple. (This is the only way to explain somewhat credible this story bug – I think).

[GoldenGail3]

Yes, my Cousland warden also "Loghain's son"... but my warden married with Anora just for the throne (and ofc, for some noble revenge...), then I can't call this real family relation (and poor Zevran...). Loghain's life was weddig gift, and only a delayed execution.

 

And my Hawke have happy love relationship, ergo he have no reason to die...  (Ugh, Sebastian! Maybe I would be able to left in Fade my Hawke if married with Sebastian....)

 

I can explain my Hawke's loathing against blood mages: he (as most blood mages...) is a self-confident man, who know, he can control the blood magic, but as always saw, another mages not. Simple. (This is the only way to explain somewhat credible this story bug – I think).

Only Female Hawke can marry Sebs though

 

And my canon Hawke is a blood mage that lectures other blood mages about blood magic while using it himself (aka the meaning of hipercritism) . I headcount he has problems with that though - and so he acts like a blood fool most of the time to make up for that 

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I think the only thing Loghain deserved was to be drained to power some Tevinter's spell, like all those poor elves he sold into slavery to selfishly continue sabotaging Ferelden during the blight. Unfortunately, execution is the only substitute available.