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[WardenKelda]

Normally I recruit the mages which makes closing the breach sort of make sense to me.

 

But I recruited the Templars this playthrough because I'm a completionist and their cutscene closing the breach really confused me.

 

If Templar's Smite ability can de-power the breach, can it do the same to rifts? If it can't do the same to rifts, what makes anyone think that it could do anything to the Breach?

 

Similarly, does the Smite (or whatever it is they do) have any affect on the mark itself if it has an effect on the Breach? Did anybody think of that prior to closing the Breach. Especially if the Inquisitor is a mage, they're standing right in the middle of that smiting zone - would knocking out their magic do anything to the mark? I mean it doesn't for game-related-reasons but shouldn't it?

 

Why only five Templars? Mages I can sort of understand since they channel their magic to you to close the breach which theoretically means those five mages could have had the magic of a load of other mages channelled into them before they channel it into you. But in order to de-power the breach surely there should have been a lot more Templars there. Again, I know game related reasons but still.

 

Doesn't the smiting thing have a time limit? Would that not be an issue?

 

I'm also genuinely confused about how the Templars can affect the Breach at all. Mages tap into the fade to do stuff and Templars can sever that link temporarily, stopping mages from doing magic. But the Breach isn't a nebulous link, it's a physical hole in the sky which leads through to the actual physical fade. So how do the Templars do anything about that?

[thats1evildude]

The implication is that there were a few dozen Templars helping, but only a handful were shown.

The Breach is not really a hole in the sky; it's a massive tear in the Veil. This is all very metaphysical, but the Veil is not a physical object, like a wall dividing two worlds. It's more like a layer of perception.

 

"There is no "this side" and "that side" when it comes to the Veil. One cannot think of it as a physical thing or a barrier or even a "shimmering wall of holy light."

 

Think of the Veil, instead, as opening one's eyes.

 

Before you opened them, you saw our world as you see it now: static, solid, unchanging. Now that they are open, you see our world as the spirits see it: chaotic, ever-changing, a realm where the imagined and the remembered have as much substance as that which is real—more, in fact.

 

A spirit sees everything as defined by will and memory, and this is why they are so very lost when they cross the Veil. In our world, imagination has no substance. Objects exist independently of how we remember them or what emotions we associate with them. Mages alone possess the power to change the world with their minds, and perhaps this forms the nature of a demon's attraction to them—who can say?

 

Regardless, the act of passing through the Veil is much more about changing one's perceptions than a physical transition. The Veil is an idea, it is the act of transition itself, and it is only the fact that both living beings and spirits find the transition difficult that gives the Veil any credence as a physical barrier at all.

 

To put it another way: magic is an illusion made real. Templars shore up the foundations of reality, denying the illusion.

You know when the Templars pulled down Envy's barrier? They basically did the same thing with the Breach.

[Taki17]

Mages use magic to alter the world around them. Templars counter this ability by making the world immutable, or at the very least, more difficult to be altered my magic. Magic comes naturally in the fade, as it is place that is always changing, whereas our world is more real, more constant. And at places where the veil is torn, the fade bleeds into our world, and by its nature, makes it more easier to be changed by magic.

 

Cassandra explains that Templars and Seekers sort of "reinforce reality", the Templars who help the Inquisitor seal the breach are all focusing on reinforcing reality at the same time, thus making it harder for the fade to bleed into our world through the breach and weakening the effects of the huge tear in the veil. The breach is weaker -> less power is required for the Inquisitor to seal it. I don't think the templars alone would be able to seal the breach, as their powers only weaken the effects of the fade, and do not effect the fabric of the veil itself.

 

The mark of the Inquisitor is not tied to the fade, but more likely tied to the veil. And since the veil's true purpose is to keep the fade separated from our world, there is no single ability or magical item more effective in this job. And since the veil is, by its very nature, counter-fade, it wouldn't be affected by templar powers, as they basically do the same thing.

[PapaCharlie9]

In Haven, when Cullen argues for siding with the Templars, he starts saying something like, "They can help weaken the Breach ..." I know, if you think about it even a little, that doesn't make sense (since the Breach is itself a weakness in the Veil, presumably), but you know, fantasy magic and all. Maybe he meant weaken the magic that is keeping the Breach open?

Templars in the game do great against rifts, via Spell Purge. Well, not the rift per se, but the operative part, which is the emerging demons.

[nightscrawl]

The game presents it as a choice between using brute force to close it (mages and the power of magic) and using different abilities to weaken it (templar lyrium-based abilities).

 

To me, it just makes more logical sense that the mages would be better equipped to deal with it since their magic is all-purpose, while templar abilities are geared toward a specific purpose: fighting mages and demons. It just doesn't seem like those are equivalent to me. =/

[WardenKelda]

Okay but if rifts and the breach aren't physical things, how on earth do you literally fall through one into the Fade during Here Lies the Abyss. Being able to go through something and get somewhere else usually implies that that thing actually does something.

[PapaCharlie9]

Okay but if rifts and the breach aren't physical things, how on earth do you literally fall through one into the Fade during Here Lies the Abyss. Being able to go through something and get somewhere else usually implies that that thing actually does something.

Sorry to go all nerd rage on you, but quantum tunneling is also not a "physical thing", and yet particles magically appear in places where they shouldn't, effectively passing through energy barriers that should be impossible. So there is some precedent in science.

In terms of lore, the Fade is everywhere. As a dreamer, some small part of your unconscious mind is in the Fade at all times. Perhaps what the Anchor does is swap the small part for the big part, the small part of you is now in mundane reality, the big (physical) part is in the Fade. It wouldn't need a physical doorway or portal to do that.

Granted, if your IQ is a dwarf or you bring Varric along, it doesn't explain how they get there, since they can't dream.

[thats1evildude]

Okay but if rifts and the breach aren't physical things, how on earth do you literally fall through one into the Fade during Here Lies the Abyss. Being able to go through something and get somewhere else usually implies that that thing actually does something.

Solely because of the Anchor's magic. It lets you enter and exit the Fade physically.

[nightscrawl]

Granted, if your IQ is a dwarf or you bring Varric along, it doesn't explain how they get there, since they can't dream.

Oghren (and/or the dwarf Warden) being 'ported into the Fade in DAO/DAA isn't explained either as far as I know. I guess we're just supposed to assume that it works because of external magical influence, Sloth/The First, and then via the Anchor.

Hm... can't you bring Varric along to the Fade in DA2 as well? That is even weirder to me since you do actually go to sleep to get there, but I guess Marethari is just awesome, or something.

[BansheeOwnage]

The game presents it as a choice between using brute force to close it (mages and the power of magic) and using different abilities to weaken it (templar lyrium-based abilities).

 

To me, it just makes more logical sense that the mages would be better equipped to deal with it since their magic is all-purpose, while templar abilities are geared toward a specific purpose: fighting mages and demons. It just doesn't seem like those are equivalent to me. =/

Me either. It's hard for me to RP getting the Templars because of this. Mages can counter magic or power it, among almost anything else, so they seem like the wiser choice compared so people who can only counter. If that fails, then what?

 

Solely because of the Anchor's magic. It lets you enter and exit the Fade physically.

Presumably not, though, since the Magisters Sidereal were able to enter without Anchors. That the veil is purely metaphysical falls apart for me since it's used as a conventional portal so much in DA:I

[Gervaise]

An alternative explanation is that the mages are adding their power to that of the Inquisitor to mend the tear, boosting the mark, whereas the Templars are adding their power to weakening the magic that is keeping the Breach open.   As someone else has already said, they are strengthening reality to the point where it is equalizing the pressure of the Fade.    If you want to use symbolism of a door.   The Templars are pushing against the door, making it easier for the Inquisitor to turn the key in the lock, whereas the mages are applying their power to the turning of the key itself.    With this analogy it actually makes more sense to use the Templars than the mages because adding power to the key could simply cause it to snap.   In the end this appears to be what does actually happen with the orb but luckily this is at the point that the lock snaps shut and not before.

[Dai Grepher]

It does. Try using Cassandra's dispel ability on the fissures that spawn the demons. They dispel and it weakens the rift as a result.

[Kantr]

An alternative explanation is that the mages are adding their power to that of the Inquisitor to mend the tear, boosting the mark, whereas the Templars are adding their power to weakening the magic that is keeping the Breach open.   As someone else has already said, they are strengthening reality to the point where it is equalizing the pressure of the Fade.    If you want to use symbolism of a door.   The Templars are pushing against the door, making it easier for the Inquisitor to turn the key in the lock, whereas the mages are applying their power to the turning of the key itself.    With this analogy it actually makes more sense to use the Templars than the mages because adding power to the key could simply cause it to snap.   In the end this appears to be what does actually happen with the orb but luckily this is at the point that the lock snaps shut and not before.

But magic isn't keeping the breach open although maybe the magic flowing through?

[Dai Grepher]

I think the theory is that there is magical energy flowing from the Breach that causes the mark to be too weak to close it all the way. The templars suppress the energies that interfere with the Herald. The mages power up the mark the Herald is using.

[Beerfish]

I have to replay a game with the Templars choice becasue i also was confused on what was happening.  I was rushing around in such a tizzy to guard things I was hardly paying attention to what was being aid around me.

[thats1evildude]

Presumably not, though, since the Magisters Sidereal were able to enter without Anchors.

Yes, through a massive expenditure of power and relying on the guidance of the Old Gods.

But again, it's the Anchor that lets the Inquisitor to enter the Fade.

[Dai Grepher]

I have to replay a game with the Templars choice becasue i also was confused on what was happening.  I was rushing around in such a tizzy to guard things I was hardly paying attention to what was being aid around me.

It was basically discussed before the mission by Cullen. He states templars could suppress the Breach.

[BansheeOwnage]

Yes, through a massive expenditure of power and relying on the guidance of the Old Gods.

But again, it's the Anchor that lets the Inquisitor to enter the Fade.

My point was that it doesn't have to be the Anchor, that there are other ways of accessing the fade, such as simply walking through a portal. That the Anchor can create portals is beside the point.

[SwobyJ]

Oghren (and/or the dwarf Warden) being 'ported into the Fade in DAO/DAA isn't explained either as far as I know. I guess we're just supposed to assume that it works because of external magical influence, Sloth/The First, and then via the Anchor.

Hm... can't you bring Varric along to the Fade in DA2 as well? That is even weirder to me since you do actually go to sleep to get there, but I guess Marethari is just awesome, or something.

 

Some BS in DA2 can really, really honestly be handwaved in game as Varric telling a story, and out game as development constraints.

[SwobyJ]

Me either. It's hard for me to RP getting the Templars because of this. Mages can counter magic or power it, among almost anything else, so they seem like the wiser choice compared so people who can only counter. If that fails, then what?

 

Presumably not, though, since the Magisters Sidereal were able to enter without Anchors. That the veil is purely metaphysical falls apart for me since it's used as a conventional portal so much in DA:I

 

Templars are actually better at weakening magic.

 

Mages can put up barriers, dispel, that sorta stuff.

 

But Templars can do the same, more consistently, not as a spell.

 

They more 'embody' magic 'suppression' (though it indeed IMO in some ways seems its a 'pure' type of magic in denial of the fact), instead of 'casting' it. They don't need to 'prepare spells' - they perform skills. They've become (slight) avatars of 'anti-magic'. They use their own strength of will, focused in intent to stop magic. Where Mages use ('mutant', 'chaotic') innate magic potential to tap into the Fade for abilities, Templars use possibly Fade-y material injected in order to tap into their SELVES (as the 'Maker's creation') to reaffirm a world (otherwise) without magic (aka anti-magic). Templars keep Thedas Thedas, while Mages, at least much more often than not (but not always..?) threaten it destabilizing.

 

So the argument to get the Templars is like "Hey its usually more their job, and there are surely Templars that will do it, and we don't know if powering up the Mark is a good thing, and the mages seem in quite a mess, if they'll even work with us."

 

Of course the Templars are not able to close the Breach. But it is not a wild guess that they'd be able to weaken the (again, sort of 'magic' of the) Breach enough for the Inquisitor to close it.

 

 

You go "What if the Templars fail?"

Okay, well I can go "What if the Mage spells don't work to dispel, or only more temporarily dispel, and the powering up of the Mark only opens the Breach wider and blows everyone away?"

 

Obviously both end up working, and I chose Mage, but I understand the caution. You're overpowering the thing (Mark) that's related to the bigger bad thing (Breach)... when you could just be getting the guys to suppress the thing letting you do the known thing (close rifts) to the bigger bad thing. Cullen may not have worded it the best, but his point was that, despite their flaws, the Templars remain the top source in Thedas to suppress and control magic, and as far as anyone knows, the Breach was a magical explosion.

[Chiramu]

OP, there was only one animation for closing the Breach. I think it looks ridiculous on both mages and templars. If there was more work put into the animations there might've been more thought put into the reasoning why and how they can close the Breach. 

 

Mages slamming the gem ends of their staves against the ground would surely destroy the gem? One of the most disappointing animations in this game . 

[nightscrawl]

Mages slamming the gem ends of their staves against the ground would surely destroy the gem? One of the most disappointing animations in this game .

 
That is so true... It is also a bummer that they didn't use a complete model of that staff, that is, one with both the correct blade and grip attached, as both are available in the game.

[In Exile]

 
That is so true... It is also a bummer that they didn't use a complete model of that staff, that is, one with both the correct blade and grip attached, as both are available in the game.

 

Keep in mind, the In Your Heart Shall Burn quest was a late addition. I'd wager that had a lot to do with it - they just couldn't dedicate that many resources to what was in the end a pretty minor scene even in that quest, much less the game.

[nightscrawl]

Keep in mind, the In Your Heart Shall Burn quest was a late addition. I'd wager that had a lot to do with it - they just couldn't dedicate that many resources to what was in the end a pretty minor scene even in that quest, much less the game.

 

It was...? But that whole thing is where we meet Corypheus for the first time.

[thats1evildude]

My point was that it doesn't have to be the Anchor, that there are other ways of accessing the fade, such as simply walking through a portal. That the Anchor can create portals is beside the point.

Those ways are few in number and generally require vast amounts of power.