But it's not hypocritical if I believe in lying to people to get them to like me. I'd be entirely consistent in my belief. Games make it hard to be subtle about this in the way approval mechanics work but it's not hypocritical.
How many times this game made you an hypocrite?
#26
Posté 06 juillet 2016 - 03:50
#27
Posté 06 juillet 2016 - 04:20
I try very hard to have my characters respond appropriate to the personalities/goals I establish at character creation.
However, if there's one thing about Inquisition I find annoying, it's the responses offered, which can be terribly non descriptive and frequently result in quite the opposite response I intended. Whoever crafted the response phrases probably ought to have a small bit of hot grease shot up his/her posterior waste ejection mechanism.
- phoray aime ceci
#28
Posté 06 juillet 2016 - 04:24
But it's not hypocritical if I believe in lying to people to get them to like me. I'd be entirely consistent in my belief. Games make it hard to be subtle about this in the way approval mechanics work but it's not hypocritical.
You are not a bard darling, you are the inquisitor, the champion of KIrkwall, the Hero of Ferelden.
Why would you lie?
To get the love of the people around you?
That's just... sad...
#29
Posté 06 juillet 2016 - 04:25
I try very hard to have my characters respond appropriate to the personalities/goals I establish at character creation.
However, if there's one thing about Inquisition I find annoying, it's the responses offered, which can be terribly non descriptive and frequently result in quite the opposite response I intended. Whoever crafted the response phrases probably ought to have a small bit of hot grease shot up his/her posterior waste ejection mechanism.
DA2 was worse, believe me.
- BansheeOwnage, robertmarilyn et Arshei aiment ceci
#30
Posté 06 juillet 2016 - 04:28
DA2 was worse, believe me.
Merrill - Oh, I love you
Hawke - Two Options - No, I don't love you
- Yes, I love you, live with me
- phoray aime ceci
#31
Posté 06 juillet 2016 - 04:28
I try very hard to have my characters respond appropriate to the personalities/goals I establish at character creation.
However, if there's one thing about Inquisition I find annoying, it's the responses offered, which can be terribly non descriptive and frequently result in quite the opposite response I intended. Whoever crafted the response phrases probably ought to have a small bit of hot grease shot up his/her posterior waste ejection mechanism.
That sounds...painful.
#32
Posté 06 juillet 2016 - 04:35
Since companions won't leave me if they don't like me (so far I know), I really don't give a crap and sometimes choose anything just for fun.
lol
- Arshei aime ceci
#33
Posté 06 juillet 2016 - 05:16
Without lie
How many times did you picked answers just to get the approval of a companions?
How many times you let Zevran join your team just to get a new companion?
How many times did you drank from the well Morrigan just because you liked the character?
How many times did you pretended to be interested in Solas hobbies just to get his approval?
1. All the time.
2. All the time.
3. Only when playing Elf characters do I drink from the Well of Sorrows.
4. Never.
#34
Posté 06 juillet 2016 - 05:17
DA2 was worse, believe me.
Quite true. Who can forget choosing the dialogue line to tell Elthina: "You're useless" but the character actually shouted: "Out of my way!"
#35
Posté 06 juillet 2016 - 05:38
Without lie
How many times did you picked answers just to get the approval of a companions?
How many times you let Zevran join your team just to get a new companion?
How many times did you drank from the well Morrigan just because you liked the character?
How many times did you pretended to be interested in Solas hobbies just to get his approval?
1. Only when I'm approval mining for a very specific wanted outcome. But usually I try to create a character that would make those dialogue choices in the first place. For example, my female bisexual Cousland wanted to screw anything that moved so long as she didn't have to pay for it. She was manipulative, power hungry, and said all the things that would get Leliana into bed. Then dropped her 'Stars and Shoes creepy stalker' vibe immediately for Zevran....then moved on to Alistair when she learned he was king material. Then had the 'audacity' to keep Zevran as a lover on the side after she married Alistair. She loved Alistair, but seriously... what he doesn't know doesn't hurt him; she did tell him everyone was out for themselves. Did he think it wouldn't apply to her ?
2. The first time of any game, I accept ALL character companions, but I'm not playing a specific character my first time. so shrug. In Origins, you could be a murderer yourself so Zevran being an assassin would not be held against him. My husband's reasoning for acquiring Zevran was this: Zevran presented a story that he was sort of forced into the Assasin's guild from childhood; that he was an asset, a tool, and lacked a lot of freedom to do anything else. And now, with the Warden, he could be more, if you're willing to let his trying to kill you slide. My husband thought this shot at redemption/career change was worth it, and that his Dwarf could handle Zevran if he ended up trying to double cross him.
Does DA2 even let you not acquire people? There are only so many to choose from depending on your own class. I can't see not acquiring everyone in that game just so you have some viable options for a balanced party.
In Inquisition, I don't see how it's the protagonist's place to choose who to accept for the Inquisition. You're merely an agent, Leliana/Jose/Cullen are your supervisors. I guess if you ignore the companion acquire quests until after you become the boss aka Inquisitor, I can see how you could cannon someone not being a good fit for your organization. Frankly, If I really pick these "extra" companions apart:
- Vivienne is totally unneeded; she's a hoity toity circle mage, and you already have Solas.
- The Inquisition can ill afford an expensive mercenary company so Iron Bull shouldn't be acquired in a world of finite money, at least till end game when you are swimming in it; and then you obviously didn't need them, did ya?
- Sera is a weird spy network and acts weird... But at least you don't have to pay her. So 50/50 on her.
- Blackwall is probably the only extra character worth getting, because there is narrative support to actually wanting a Warden around.
- Dorian is from Tevinter; so could be suspicious even though he totally earns my trust by the end of IHW. Otherwise, he's that Tevinter Mage who warned you about the Mage attack.
- Cole came to warn us of the impending Templar attack, but he's extra weird and tries to kill an injured soldier right in front of you. But you can talk him out of it with common sense, so it becomes clear he's just kinda special.
So, if we apply logic to the Inquisition companions, I think you'd only sign up for Blackwall, then kick Sera out when you realized how much of a child she was. Leaving you with Solas, Cassandra, Varric, and Blackwall. And then you'd kick Blackwall for being a liar. And then you find out Varric leaked the Thaig location to an ex lover; but you can't kick him to the curb, too bad. A pretty limited party at this point, and also a pretty lame game missing some of the best characters.
3. The wording of this question has me confused, but I think you're asking, "Why would you trust Morrigan to drink from the well unless it was just because you knew her from prior games?". So, the first time I played DAI, my human mage drank from the Well; Morrigan hadn't earned her trust, and as a mage, magic wasn't unfamiliar. My own previous experience with Morrigan be damned. Hell, it was probably BECAUSE of that experience that I didn't let her drink. She hung out with my Warden the whole game, even asked my Warden to kill her mother, Flemyth for her. And then what do I find but that she was lying all along, Solas style, to get some Warden sperm. Yeah, I loved her as my soul sister anyway, but that doesn't mean I would trust her not to keep crap to herself if convenient. Heck, even in Inquisition, she was being cagey about knowing stuff in the Arbor Wilds. Solas outright accuses her of being power hungry. The true second time I played, the character I was role playing DID NOT WANT MORE MAGIC IN HER. She was a rogue and the Anchor was enough magic for her. Who knew if the Well was even useful? But Solas said somebody should drink. So, here you go Morrigan, better you than me. And if I play an elf, then ya, I'm drinking. Because Elves should have it, end of story. So, it actually seems to me, that the only time I let Morrigan drink is when my lack of trust for her is superseded by a strong 'personal-to-my-character' reason not to.
4. I am honestly curious for all content in Dragon Age, so the first time I played, I did not ask Solas questions just to make him happy. That was a side benefit, sure. His stories about the Fade would sometimes give me goose bumps. I liked them. If I play a mage, mages should ask other mages about their areas of expertise. Aren't all mages educated and book wormish? If my character has an attraction to Solas, they'd be interested just because one is usually interested in their crush's hobbies. As a human rogue, I thought his stories were interesting but also weird. Mara the Rogue did not get all the boosts to approval that she could have, but whatever, that was her, my character. Now, I must admit that after asking him the questions twice through two playthroughs, the third time I ask the questions but skip listening because I already know what he's going to say. But my character still had to ask the question for me to let them have an opinion about it even if I didn't personally listen to it again. That all said, I am curious to do a playthrough where I totally don't get along with him at all and punch him in the face. So, yeah, I obviously don't live and die by the egghead's approval.
- Melbella aime ceci
#36
Posté 06 juillet 2016 - 05:56
Zevran is a rogue I need him to complete my main DA:O group-3 rogues and Morrigan. Sten remains in his cage as Darkspawn fodder.
Yes,in my DA:O games Loghain is killed for his crimes against humanity and high treason.
I'm not overly fond of Morrigan but,she can drink as much as she wants from the well.
Simply put I follow the story line,give the best answer available and when required I hand out justice.
Isn't that what a RPG is all about?
- Al Foley aime ceci
#37
Posté 06 juillet 2016 - 05:58
Does DA2 even let you not acquire people?
Isabela, Fenris and Sebastian are optional.
So, if we apply logic to the Inquisition companions, I think you'd only sign up for Blackwall.
Surely that depends on what kind of logic your Inquisitor is applying, though? My 'canon' Inquisitor operated on the premise that anyone who volunteered to help her with the GIANT !@#$ING HOLE IN THE SKY was more than welcome.
#38
Posté 06 juillet 2016 - 05:58
I remember that just after Here Lies the Abyss, I agreed with Cassandra that what happened should not be forgotten. It should recorded to preserve truth.
...then I agreed with Dorian that maybe fudge and/or omit parts pertaining to the fade. It would be too easy to unintentionally inspire people to comepletly the same feat, or so the reasoning went. Let them speculate, he said.
Yeah...that was a bit hypocritical.
HAHAHAHAHA, I did this three times and never noticed the hypocrisy. I guess because I didn't think the two really connected, but they do, don't they? You can't stop Cass from writing what she wants to write, and I'm generally encouraging of her actions; she's so passionate about everything she does. But I also agreed with Dorian that maybe we should hedge the "how to get into and out of the Fade" bit. I mean, really, he didn't want to bring up the stuff at all. He doesn't want people to know you can visit physically and not cause implosion of the world, Maker Style. But Cass won't truly understand the mechanics anyway, so she'll probably fudge it up unintentionally?
I. I found in Inquisition it was easy enough to ****** people off and still ultimately get their approval up in other ways that didn't require being a hypocrite, or even meta-gaming and taking them only on missions you knew they'd approve of. I made Cassanda and Vivienne mad so many times, but still got them to like me without really making any effort to do so. It seems like approval is basically meaningless in Inquisition, in my experience. Vivienne got mad at me and rearranged my furniture early on, but without even recruiting her and definitely without supporting the circle, she still gave me her quest and said she was wrong about me. It's probably the war table functions that did it.
I also noticed this. In the end, any player should feel free to say whatever they want to to each companion one on one in Haven/Skyhold. It seems like the major points are gained and lost on their side missions, your judgements, and your major political choices. And you can totally tick them off in conversation, than actually do that "favor" they asked for. I cannon that this is actually a better rivalry system. You guys may not see eye to eye, but you helped them out when they needed it. Why wouldn't they respect you?
You are not a bard darling, you are the inquisitor, the champion of KIrkwall, the Hero of Ferelden.
Why would you lie?
To get the love of the people around you?
That's just... sad...
Because some of the worst murdering sociopaths were charming fucks?
- robertmarilyn aime ceci
#39
Posté 06 juillet 2016 - 06:08
Isabela, Fenris and Sebastian are optional.
Surely that depends on what kind of logic your Inquisitor is applying, though? My 'canon' Inquisitor operated on the premise that anyone who volunteered to help her with the GIANT !@#$ING HOLE IN THE SKY was more than welcome.
Are they really? Well, I knew Sebastion was, I've never had his content to play the two times I've played DA2. If you walk into the Hanged Man, the scene with Isabella insta happens? Is there a choice where you can tell her to fudge off? I guess I never saw any of these fudge off options. All the characters just joined. But Hawke is a different kettle of fish than the HoF and Quiz. As Hawke, I'm not in charge of anything. When making friends in a new city, one is not too choosy so long as they are not morally repugnant upon meeting. Isabella ran off with her book, I was ticked that Fenris broke his promise not to kill his abuser, but he came back and he explained... and I was totally emotionally manipulated by Anders. He played me like a harp my first PT, and he is my 2nd Hawke's only flaw. so...shrug.
----
But the "Massive hole in the sky" aka Breach is closed before you move to Skyhold ( I get weirded out that there is dialogue post Skyhold where people keep talking about the hole in the sky as if it's still there). And honestly, only you and some mages/templars can close the breach, none of your companions assist. Even Solas just stands there at the Breach closing scene. The only time you need companions is to help beat the demons down at the small rifts while you try to close them. But the Massive Hole in the sky? Nah.
#40
Posté 06 juillet 2016 - 06:09
None, but I can see this happening after playing the game many times.
Actually, the one thing I feel hypocrtiical about is Iron Bull's recruitment. My first instinct was to ditch him, but it just feels punitive to not have their "roster" of characters, no matter how stupid they are. At least for one playthrough.
Same goes for other games. Like it makes more sense to me to make Anders leave, after he tries killing that mage girl.
#41
Posté 06 juillet 2016 - 06:16
Because some of the worst murdering sociopaths were charming fucks?
You can be yourself and people can still love you, you don't have to pretend being pro-templar to get the love of Aveline and Fenris, and then be pro-mage to get the love of Anders and Merrill.
People waste time trying to get the approval of the companion, when it should be the companions seeking the approval of the damn protagonist.
- ModernAcademic aime ceci
#42
Posté 06 juillet 2016 - 06:18
People waste time trying to get the approval of the companion, when it should be the companions seeking the approval of the damn protagonist.
Too bad there isn't a good mechanic for that.
Aveline is great though, no matter what. I don't think it matters if you're friends or not... in a way, the rivalry is actually better.
#43
Posté 06 juillet 2016 - 06:18
#44
Posté 06 juillet 2016 - 06:21
^ I don't think the Cullen one is fair. He wants to go off lyrium and is struggling in his effort. As far as my Inquisitor is concerned, any mage or templar that wants nothing to do with lyrium has his full support. After all, it's one of the deciding factors against his taking the templar spec.
Yeah, it's pretty hard to go through with the Templar spec after talking to Cullen, especially if you romance him. It kind of makes you seem like an idiot
It is cool to be Templar Warriors together, though.
- Cole came to warn us of the impending Templar attack, but he's extra weird and tries to kill an injured soldier right in front of you. But you can talk him out of it with common sense, so it becomes clear he's just kinda special.
I feel like I should point out that Cole didn't want to kill the soldier per se, the soldier wanted Cole to kill them.
I remember that just after Here Lies the Abyss, I agreed with Cassandra that what happened should not be forgotten. It should recorded to preserve truth.
...then I agreed with Dorian that maybe fudge and/or omit parts pertaining to the fade. It would be too easy to unintentionally inspire people to comepletly the same feat, or so the reasoning went. Let them speculate, he said.
Yeah...that was a bit hypocritical.
I... think I did that on at least one playthrough without realizing
![]()
- Melbella aime ceci
#45
Posté 06 juillet 2016 - 06:24
You can be yourself and people can still love you, you don't have to pretend being pro-templar to get the love of Aveline and Fenris, and then be pro-mage to get the love of Anders and Merrill.
People waste time trying to get the approval of the companion, when it should be the companions seeking the approval of the damn protagonist.
Too bad there isn't a good mechanic for that.
Aveline is great though, no matter what. I don't think it matters if you're friends or not... in a way, the rivalry is actually better.
There is for that. Since the player in essence is controlling the character, whether you are doing a head canon or in depth role play, then what they say will effect how you will percieve them. Your approval and disaproval of them, etc. In point of fact I even have found that my perceptions of characters often change based on what kind of character I am roleplaying. My opinion of the Illusive Man tends to change based on the Shepard I am running.
- coldwetn0se et straykat aiment ceci
#46
Posté 06 juillet 2016 - 06:25
Too bad there isn't a good mechanic for that.
Aveline is great though, no matter what. I don't think it matters if you're friends or not... in a way, the rivalry is actually better.
It could be that at the point you've reached enough approval with them, they have to take you on a friend date. But maybe we could say that is what their side quests are for. Except it always seems like that's actually them asking you a favor. So yeah, back to the friend date. In a DA2 style game where rivalry is a thing, you just don't get that content; they shouldn't care if you like them.
- straykat aime ceci
#47
Posté 06 juillet 2016 - 06:26
There is for that. Since the player in essence is controlling the character, whether you are doing a head canon or in depth role play, then what they say will effect how you will percieve them. Your approval and disaproval of them, etc. In point of fact I even have found that my perceptions of characters often change based on what kind of character I am roleplaying. My opinion of the Illusive Man tends to change based on the Shepard I am running.
That's just roleplaying...which is a good thing.. I just was offering food for thought.. like an actual game mechanic that was player centric, rather than the other way around. Not sure how it'd work though.
#48
Posté 06 juillet 2016 - 06:29
That's just roleplaying...which is a good thing.. I just was offering food for thought.. like an actual game mechanic that was player centric, rather than the other way around. Not sure how it'd work though.
I suppose the game could give you the option to vote on a comment a character makes whether you disaprove of it or Approve of it. This would be redundant though and the only need for it is if you have someone forgetting how they feel about a character after they have not played the game for an extended absecence. But it would make the interface already clunky when people already like making jokes about the character getting far off looks if you don't answer a question fast enough.
#49
Posté 06 juillet 2016 - 06:30
Without lie
How many times did you picked answers just to get the approval of a companions?
How many times you let Zevran join your team just to get a new companion?
How many times did you let Morrigan drank from the well just because you liked her character?*
How many times did you pretended to be interested in Solas hobbies just to get his approval?
The same number of instances I did all of the above with my work buddies, friends and family.
Honesty is overrated. Living implies having to lie through your teeth more times than you want to or care to count. Being sincere is not always the best course of action and can land you (not to mention the people you care about) in a lot of trouble. Especially when surrounded by people with a talent for emotional manipulation and for distorting the truth.
Honesty is only valued by the right people in your life.
#50
Posté 06 juillet 2016 - 06:33
Yeah, it's pretty hard to go through with the Templar spec after talking to Cullen, especially if you romance him. It kind of makes you seem like an idiot
It is cool to be Templar Warriors together, though.
I feel like I should point out that Cole didn't want to kill the soldier per se, the soldier wanted Cole to kill them.
I... think I did that on at least one playthrough without realizing
![]()
Hmmm. That'll be an odd feeling for the Templar I'm going to play, true. I should think about how I'm gonna cannon that.
None of the scenes I've seen indicate that the people know they're being heard. They're just worrying about something and Cole picks up on it. The impression I got of that particular soldier was that he was delirious with pain. Maybe begging for relief, but I'm sure not actually death. I mean, if I had a choice between life with no pain or death, I'd go with the former. I've read Asunder... if anything, it seemed Cole only killed sociopaths still in their infancy; these crazies hadn't fully embraced their murderous tendencies, so still felt conflicted that their morals didn't truly mimic normal social standards. The only -near- exception was an ex Tranquil that knew he would be made tranquil again. And Cole opted not to kill him. But they dropped some of Cole's knowledge of stuff for Inquisition. Like, Cole TOTALLY KNOWS people get naked. He watched tons of mages get it on in the white Spire. That's his opening sequence in the book. And a conversation he has with Evangeline. So, why is he so shocked when Cullen ends up naked?





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